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Boys & Feminism

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Original post by Birkenhead
I don't think laziness and refusing to read a twenty-two page government report so that I can do your job of citing supportive evidence are quite the same things.

You continue to fail to cite any specific areas of these sources which supports your claim that women are paid 15% less for the same work. I will continue to assume they are not.

Page 9
All this is for the SAME WORK IN 2013

from the age of 18-21 women earn 3.5% less than men of the same age
in her 20's a women will earn 5.3% less than men of the same age
in her 30's a woman will earn 12% of men of the same age
in their 40's women earn 26.7% less than men in their 40's
in their 50's the figure is 26.2%
and 60+ the figure is 20.6%
evidence enough for you?
(edited 9 years ago)
More men should support feminist ideas because its just one part of the fight to create equality for all. Equal rights for women (which is great in its own right) will mean that we are a step closer to achieving class equality where there is equality of opportunity which in turn would lead to a reduction in racism (as race is linked to class). Men who are right wing and want to keep the status quo probably don't like feminism but imo some form of feminism is necessary.
The world is basically run by straight, Christian, white guys. Those of us who belong to that group have the responsibility to care about issues that effect people who don't -- There are LGBT issues we should care about, women's issues we should care about, issues effecting ethnic/racial/religious minorities we should care about. It doesn't make us any 'worse off' to care about others, nor does it make issues that effect straight, Christian, white men any less important, so why the stink about it?
Original post by Viceroy
The world is basically run by straight, Christian, white guys. Those of us who belong to that group have the responsibility to care about issues that effect people who don't -- There are LGBT issues we should care about, women's issues we should care about, issues effecting ethnic/racial/religious minorities we should care about. It doesn't make us any 'worse off' to care about others, nor does it make issues that effect straight, Christian, white men any less important, so why the stink about it?

i completely agree, however common sense and logic isn't nearly enough for some of the fascists ands bigots on this forum which is a real shame. I had to scour the interweb for "proof" that feminism was necessary and afterwards, the fascist disappeared.
Original post by Viceroy
The world is basically run by straight, Christian, white guys. Those of us who belong to that group have the responsibility to care about issues that effect people who don't -- There are LGBT issues we should care about, women's issues we should care about, issues effecting ethnic/racial/religious minorities we should care about. It doesn't make us any 'worse off' to care about others, nor does it make issues that effect straight, Christian, white men any less important, so why the stink about it?


Why do they have the responsibility?
Original post by DiddyDec
Why do they have the responsibility?

it is called society.
Original post by James Milibanter
Page 9
All this is for the SAME WORK IN 2013

from the age of 18-21 women earn 3.5% less than men of the same age
in her 20's a women will earn 5.3% less than men of the same age
in her 30's a woman will earn 12% of men of the same age
in their 40's women earn 26.7% less than men in their 40's
in their 50's the figure is 26.2%
and 60+ the figure is 20.6%
evidence enough for you?


Where does it say it is for the same work?

The table title is "difference between the gender pay for all employees and only full time employees in2013 by age group (gross hourly earnings excluding overtime)
Original post by DiddyDec
Where does it say it is for the same work?

The table title is "difference between the gender pay for all employees and only full time employees in2013 by age group (gross hourly earnings excluding overtime)

How about this then? seeing as you still aren't satisfied.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-business/11206004/Equal-Pay-Day-Women-work-for-free-an-extra-3-days-each-year.html
Original post by James Milibanter
Page 9
All this is for the SAME WORK IN 2013

from the age of 18-21 women earn 3.5% less than men of the same age
in her 20's a women will earn 5.3% less than men of the same age
in her 30's a woman will earn 12% of men of the same age
in their 40's women earn 26.7% less than men in their 40's
in their 50's the figure is 26.2%
and 60+ the figure is 20.6%
evidence enough for you?


No, for the simple reason that none of these figures are said to refer to the same work.
Original post by James Milibanter


Once again, linking the results of quick google searches is not acceptable evidence for your claim that women earn 15% less than men in the same work. You are going to have to specify what in this article supports that claim.
Original post by Birkenhead
No, for the simple reason that none of these figures are said to refer to the same work.

WOW.
Original post by James Milibanter
i completely agree, however common sense and logic isn't nearly enough for some of the fascists ands bigots on this forum which is a real shame. I had to scour the interweb for "proof" that feminism was necessary and afterwards, the fascist disappeared.


Calling me a 'fascist' and a 'bigot' for making perfectly reasonable objections to your arguments and claims is not only completely unjustified, but it also makes you look insecure in the quality of your argument. Your abuse has been reported.
Original post by James Milibanter


No, I want to see a statistic for women being paid less for doing the exact same job as her male counterpart.
Original post by DiddyDec
No, I want to see a statistic for women being paid less for doing the exact same job as her male counterpart.


"The gap remained stubbornly high even when graduates had studied the same subject, achieved an identical Ucas score or attended the same institution, according to the study by the Warwick Institute for Employment Research on behalf of the Higher Education Careers Services Unit (Hecsu).


It found the problem was replicated across nearly all chosen career paths except the not-for-profit sector."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/graduate-pay-gap-same-degrees-same-jobs-but-for-women-still-not-the-same-pay-8523471.html
Original post by James Milibanter
"The gap remained stubbornly high even when graduates had studied the same subject, achieved an identical Ucas score or attended the same institution, according to the study by the Warwick Institute for Employment Research on behalf of the Higher Education Careers Services Unit (Hecsu).


It found the problem was replicated across nearly all chosen career paths except the not-for-profit sector."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/graduate-pay-gap-same-degrees-same-jobs-but-for-women-still-not-the-same-pay-8523471.html


Nowhere here does it say that women are paid less for doing the same work as men.
Original post by Birkenhead
Nowhere here does it say that women are paid less for doing the same work as men.

"all chosen career paths except the not-for-profit sector."
i.e. if a man chooses the same career as a woman, with the same qualification, in all careers other than the non-profit sector he will be paid more. how much more? please refer back to my earlier source.
Original post by James Milibanter
"all chosen career paths except the not-for-profit sector."
i.e. if a man chooses the same career as a woman, with the same qualification, in all careers other than the non-profit sector he will be paid more. how much more? please refer back to my earlier source.


It doesn't say that. It says that men are as a whole paid more in the same career path. This is not the same as saying that in the exact same job, men are ever paid more.
Original post by James Milibanter
"The gap remained stubbornly high even when graduates had studied the same subject, achieved an identical Ucas score or attended the same institution, according to the study by the Warwick Institute for Employment Research on behalf of the Higher Education Careers Services Unit (Hecsu).


It found the problem was replicated across nearly all chosen career paths except the not-for-profit sector."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/graduate-pay-gap-same-degrees-same-jobs-but-for-women-still-not-the-same-pay-8523471.html


I have read the whole article and it does not mention the exact same jobs. It does mentions those working in the same sectors, but not the exact same job.

By exact I mean working for the same company, for the same hours and the same job title. Not two jobs at different companies with the same job title.
Original post by Birkenhead
It doesn't say that. It says that men are as a whole paid more in the same career path. This is not the same as saying that in the exact same job, men are ever paid more.

Well fine I concede. It is not saying the exact same thing, however, it does show gender inequality. I have my facts and figures to back that up, do you have any figures to disprove it?
Original post by DiddyDec
I have read the whole article and it does not mention the exact same jobs. It does mentions those working in the same sectors, but not the exact same job.

By exact I mean working for the same company, for the same hours and the same job title. Not two jobs at different companies with the same job title.

does it matter, the pay gap proves gender equality. Do you dare to refute that?

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