I think what you've just said is unintentionally highlighting the problem with the word feminism. "Denouncing the hard work of the women" implies that only women have had any role in feminism which is again isolating men. It would be good if we could somehow "reset" the word feminism and remove all the negative connotations it seems to have picked up lately but sadly I don't see that happening anytime soon when the word is enough to send many into a fit of rage.

ok but feminism or gender equality has always been more about protecting women because there is a far greater need there

Reply 306

TurboCretin

Original post by PQ

Do you honestly think the issue is feminism's "pr" rather than the media representation of feminism? The stereotyping of feminists is nothing new. The media attention to "trivial" campaigns while ignoring a lot of feminist activity that is far from trivial is nothing new. The acceptance of certain women who paint themselves as feminists while stomping on trans, disabled, sex workers and WoC into high profile positions - giving some feminists who say the right things but don't actually challenge the status quo for non middle class, white, cis, non-disabled women is nothing new.

There is a problem around media representation of feminism - but it is not a pr problem.

Do you honestly think that the above is not a PR issue? It is part of the job of PR specialists to maintain good relationships with the media and leverage them. And if there is not enough public awareness of the core, non-trivial feminist activity then that is also a PR issue, is it not?

Reply 307

Smash Bandicoot

I'll support modern feminism in the West when I see modern feminist Facebook friends not going "BAHAHAHAHA 'but what about men's issues' lol check your privilege and get a grip little boy"

Furthermore,

'yes men have it hard because patriarchy hurts men too moan whine blah blah BUT

a) women have it harder
b) women have had it harder for longer
c) women have more issues
d) most men's issues are basically men's fault
e) men should man up and stop moaning about how 'oppressed' they are whine cry check your privilege

-> so you see men have X issues but women have ABCDEFG issue and X issue is just your fault anyway, therefore men's X issue is invalid. You disagree MISOGYNY

=Tumblr feminist logic'

I do not feel comfortable in a movement which invalidates my opinion unless I agree women should have the last say and kneel and beg for forgiveness for the transgressions of my forefathers.

I tried to say this yesterday, better PR would help to resolve the media stereotype of the feminist. As far as the mainstream is concerned, Tumblr feminism is feminism. I am strongly advising feminists to consider how much these fringe groups are alienating men from their cause and amend it with equal representation of moderate feminist views in the mainstream, in particular actually taking men's issues seriously, and not just as a bi-product of women's issues.

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 308

Smash Bandicoot

Original post by Viceroy

The world is basically run by straight, Christian, white guys. Those of us who belong to that group have the responsibility to care about issues that effect people who don't -- There are LGBT issues we should care about, women's issues we should care about, issues effecting ethnic/racial/religious minorities we should care about. It doesn't make us any 'worse off' to care about others, nor does it make issues that effect straight, Christian, white men any less important, so why the stink about it?

I would like to refute the idea that the world is run by Christians.

I agree on most points, however, if you see my post above it shows precisely how the representation by radical feminists on social media such as Tumblr is damaging the cause by invalidating both men's issues and the majority of white/straight/Christian issues. Many of these blogs quite explicitly state or otherwise imply, that these issues are, significantly, less important.

Reply 309

Smash Bandicoot

Original post by Eva.Gregoria

I'm a woman in a first world country, what now?

I agree with that poster, I've lived in both first and third world countries (most of my life in a third world country actually) and I do feel like women here complain about almost nothing.

Eva you're the coolest feminist I know :biggrin:

Reply 310

Smash Bandicoot

Original post by James Milibanter

You mention the equal pay act but yet look it up, there is absolutely no evidence of it having made any effect, women are still very much under-valued in the workplace. To say that women "choose" to earn less is bullsugar, get your head out of your arse.
Men also don't nearly have the troubles of having to deal with domestic abuse, sexual violence or harassment on the scale that women do. when was the last time that you or I was offered a "lift" from someone driving by as we were walking peacefully down the street? These are all issues for women. I would very much like the freedom to express my emotions without facing judgement and women would like to do the same without men asking them if they're "on their periods". Men have a much higher suicide rate than women do, this is a result of being told throughout your life that "big boys don't cry", men can't seek help with their issues because the PATRIARCHY enforces the belief that men have to be strong and as a result we kill ourselves. It is in our interest to be on the feminist's side and if you are too ignorant to see that then there is a VERY special place in hell for you, you fascist!

Honest to God my 'feminist' Facebook friend reposted a homeless depressed man with a 'what about men?' placard from the BBC Debate page and told him to [sic] man the **** up.[/sic] Trust me there's some ****ty double standard and rationalisations going on, especially with the younger ones

Reply 311

Smash Bandicoot

Thread has disintegrated into a cirlce-jerk

Reply 312

DiddyDec01

Original post by Smash Bandicoot

Thread has disintegrated into a cirlce-jerk

Just like every feminism thread ever.

Reply 313

geoking

Original post by hdaindak

ok but feminism or gender equality has always been more about protecting women because there is a far greater need there

Since when was there a far greater need?! That right there is little more than sexism. Treat another gender better than another for no reason other than their gender...

Reply 314

geoking

Original post by Smash Bandicoot

Yep. I knew a self-declared feminist who was against objectification and yet treated herself like a walking kleenex for any guy to jerk off into. The young ones jump onto it generally to mask their self-inflicted shortcomings: "It's not my fault, it's society!"

Reply 315

DiddyDec01

Original post by hdaindak

ok but feminism or gender equality has always been more about protecting women because there is a far greater need there

Protecting them from what?

Reply 316

hdaindak

Original post by geoking

Since when was there a far greater need?! That right there is little more than sexism. Treat another gender better than another for no reason other than their gender...

ergh no i didn't say that- but it is ignorant to ignore the fact that women have suffered more throughout history- and have had to fight for rights (which they did through feminism)...

Reply 317

hdaindak

Original post by DiddyDec

Protecting them from what?

from any kinds of inequality- e.g. pay, work opportunities, bigoted attitudes etc... just like a movement focussed on equality of race would look out for everyone but particularly those that are more likely to be abused within a current system

Reply 318

BobbieShamrock

Original post by kudzi.c

How can we get more boys to see that feminism benefits them too? Any male feminists out there, what made you see the importance of feminism? :smile:

And people who think feminism is useless, I'd like to know why.

What I want is for feminists to understand that just because someone doesn't support feminism, doesn't mean they are against gender equality. This applies to women as well as men.
I've seen countless tumblr posts claiming that women who don't identify as feminists are either stupid, in denial, or even sexist. Feminists say they support all women yet they are the ones who pass the harshest judgement on them.
This is one of the reasons why I don't want to identify as a feminist.