Overrated Universities.
Places which people claim are good or elite but are hardly prestigious beyond UK shores and are nowhere near the level of Oxbridge or the big 5.
They're pretentious and exist just massage the ego of so-called "Oxbridge Rejects". I detest that title because it somehow suggests those students were good enough to gain admission to Oxbridge but the reality is they weren't, they never were. They were simply "Oxbridge Applicants". Many people can be Oxbridge rejects.
But yeah such universities which seem to have inflated their own self-worth but let's be honest, nobody considers them prestigious or selective or exclusive or as a breeding ground for future leaders in their field:
- St Andrew's
- Manchester
- Exeter
- Durham
- York
- Leeds
- Sheffield
- Birmingham
- Newcastle
- Southampton
- Sussex
- Bath
- Loughborough
- Surrey
All incredibly overrated moronic institutions which anyone with half a brain cell i.e. AAB-ABB could gain entry to. Not exactly an exclusive society that lives and breathes academia, steeped in history or inspirational for the next batch of corporate, academic, political, scientific leaders.
Apart from Oxford, Cambridge, UCL, LSE, Imperial, King's College London, and possibly Edinburgh, Bristol and Nottingham (and the odd specialist college or institution like LSHTM), the rest are a bit rubbish aren't they?
They're pretentious and exist just massage the ego of so-called "Oxbridge Rejects". I detest that title because it somehow suggests those students were good enough to gain admission to Oxbridge but the reality is they weren't, they never were. They were simply "Oxbridge Applicants". Many people can be Oxbridge rejects.
But yeah such universities which seem to have inflated their own self-worth but let's be honest, nobody considers them prestigious or selective or exclusive or as a breeding ground for future leaders in their field:
- St Andrew's
- Manchester
- Exeter
- Durham
- York
- Leeds
- Sheffield
- Birmingham
- Newcastle
- Southampton
- Sussex
- Bath
- Loughborough
- Surrey
All incredibly overrated moronic institutions which anyone with half a brain cell i.e. AAB-ABB could gain entry to. Not exactly an exclusive society that lives and breathes academia, steeped in history or inspirational for the next batch of corporate, academic, political, scientific leaders.
Apart from Oxford, Cambridge, UCL, LSE, Imperial, King's College London, and possibly Edinburgh, Bristol and Nottingham (and the odd specialist college or institution like LSHTM), the rest are a bit rubbish aren't they?
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Original post by Hulkamaniac
Apart from Oxford, Cambridge, UCL, LSE, Imperial, King's College London, and possibly Edinburgh, Bristol and Nottingham (and the odd specialist college or institution like LSHTM), the rest are a bit rubbish aren't they?
Bristol? Edinburgh? lol
Original post by TroyAndAbed
Bristol? Edinburgh? lol
Note the word possibly in my statement.
Personally I think they too are not really that elite. Edinburgh only virtue of it being the most prestigious in Scotland, world class medical school and at the forefront of the Age of Enlightenment and has produced PMs.
Frankly I think UCL and Bristol are overrated.
King's is underrated when you consider it was at the forefront of scientific discovery.
But the TRUE WORLD CLASS institutions in the UK are Oxford, Cambridge and LSE and then Imperial in a distant 4th place.
LSHTM and LBS are also world class but are of course not really universities in the strictest sense and so don't appear in such global rankings.
Leicester
UEA
Dundee
Cardiff
Queen's Belfast
Liverpool
Lancaster
All make the crud list
UEA
Dundee
Cardiff
Queen's Belfast
Liverpool
Lancaster
All make the crud list
There might be some truth in self-imaging but overall I'm not sure I'm with the idea that those unis aren't any good, sorry Hulk.
The problem is that kids have a lot of entitlement and only think/feel that they deserve or are of the calibre of the elite unis and no less.
But a great education can be leaked out of virtually any institution (IMO) through a student's resourcefulness and drive. There also isn't much if any difference between the quality of the academics between the elite unis and those in the list there.
As I've graduated I would say that the quality/type of the degree is more important than the idea of where one attended. And if people are concerned with employment blah blah blah, the former is what counts, from what I've seen.
The problem is that kids have a lot of entitlement and only think/feel that they deserve or are of the calibre of the elite unis and no less.
But a great education can be leaked out of virtually any institution (IMO) through a student's resourcefulness and drive. There also isn't much if any difference between the quality of the academics between the elite unis and those in the list there.
As I've graduated I would say that the quality/type of the degree is more important than the idea of where one attended. And if people are concerned with employment blah blah blah, the former is what counts, from what I've seen.
Original post by Hulkamaniac
But the TRUE WORLD CLASS institutions in the UK are Oxford, Cambridge and LSE and then Imperial in a distant 4th place.
I'd probably agree with this. No other university is going to have much of a reputation outside of the UK. (& I don't think LSE & Imperial are even that well known outside of academic fields)
Original post by TimeWalker
There might be some truth in self-imaging but overall I'm not sure I'm with the idea that those unis aren't any good, sorry Hulk.
The problem is that kids have a lot of entitlement and only think/feel that they deserve or are of the calibre of the elite unis and no less.
But a great education can be leaked out of virtually any institution (IMO) through a student's resourcefulness and drive. There also isn't much if any difference between the quality of the academics between the elite unis and those in the list there.
As I've graduated I would say that the quality/type of the degree is more important than the idea of where one attended. And if people are concerned with employment blah blah blah, the former is what counts, from what I've seen.
The problem is that kids have a lot of entitlement and only think/feel that they deserve or are of the calibre of the elite unis and no less.
But a great education can be leaked out of virtually any institution (IMO) through a student's resourcefulness and drive. There also isn't much if any difference between the quality of the academics between the elite unis and those in the list there.
As I've graduated I would say that the quality/type of the degree is more important than the idea of where one attended. And if people are concerned with employment blah blah blah, the former is what counts, from what I've seen.
My gripe is that places like St Andrews and Durham seem to portray themselves (everyone from the academics downwards) as some bastion of excellence akin to Oxbridge. That annoys me. Why do these places have to compare themselves to Oxbridge. Why can't they just be proud to be Durham, or St Andrews etc?
Focussing on the latter, to assume that position of high status would need to be reflected on their achievements, how many PMs attended Durham or St Andrew's? How many Nobel Laureates do they have? St Andrew's has very few despite it's age and 'prestige'.
What exactly have they contributed to British society other than the fact that one has enjoyed being the lame alternative to Oxbridge going so far as creating the "Doxbridge" tag declaring themselves "The Princeton of Northern Europe". Whilst the latter despite it's age and association with Edward Jenner and an even vaguer association with Ben Franklin, only really came to prominence when a certain royal decided to go there instead of his guaranteed place at Trinity College, Cambridge.
Manchester perhaps I have been unfair to dismiss as it has been at the forefront of a lot of engineering developments recently. But again none of these places perceive me as "selective" or prestigious or places people would fight tooth and nail to get into.
Whereas in America of course Harvard and Yale are considered the big two, there are so many alternatives that are in the same category and on par i.e. the rest of the Ivies, Chicago, Stanford, MIT, Caltech etc.
The reason for that not just due to the size of the US but because each of those colleges worked on developing their own brand and image to be recognised for THEIR achievements and on their own merits rather than being "an alternative to Princeton" or "just another Ivy".
Saying that you attended Brown generates as much oohs and aahs as a Yale alumnus.
Original post by TimeWalker
There might be some truth in self-imaging but overall I'm not sure I'm with the idea that those unis aren't any good, sorry Hulk.
The problem is that kids have a lot of entitlement and only think/feel that they deserve or are of the calibre of the elite unis and no less.
But a great education can be leaked out of virtually any institution (IMO) through a student's resourcefulness and drive. There also isn't much if any difference between the quality of the academics between the elite unis and those in the list there.
As I've graduated I would say that the quality/type of the degree is more important than the idea of where one attended. And if people are concerned with employment blah blah blah, the former is what counts, from what I've seen.
The problem is that kids have a lot of entitlement and only think/feel that they deserve or are of the calibre of the elite unis and no less.
But a great education can be leaked out of virtually any institution (IMO) through a student's resourcefulness and drive. There also isn't much if any difference between the quality of the academics between the elite unis and those in the list there.
As I've graduated I would say that the quality/type of the degree is more important than the idea of where one attended. And if people are concerned with employment blah blah blah, the former is what counts, from what I've seen.
Yes, so called "prestige" doesn't mean much to employers (except maybe top law firms/banks; & even then the "prestige" seems to incorporate quite a large amount of universities).
Original post by TroyAndAbed
I'd probably agree with this. No other university is going to have much of a reputation outside of the UK. (& I don't think LSE & Imperial are even that well known outside of academic fields)
LSE certainly has a big name in the US. Imperial more so amongst students and academics.
LSE more so due to JFK attending there and the sheer number of famous leaders, royals and businessmen associated with the damn place.
Imperial has always come off as a cheap knockoff of MIT and the buildings are disgusting.
Original post by Hulkamaniac
LSE more so due to JFK attending there and the sheer number of famous leaders, royals and businessmen associated with the damn place.
Not to the extent of Oxbridge though. Oxbridge are frequently mentioned in mainstream US media & known to the majority of people whereas I've not heard LSE mentioned once and doubt many would know it was a university.
Original post by TimeWalker
There might be some truth in self-imaging but overall I'm not sure I'm with the idea that those unis aren't any good, sorry Hulk.
The problem is that kids have a lot of entitlement and only think/feel that they deserve or are of the calibre of the elite unis and no less.
But a great education can be leaked out of virtually any institution (IMO) through a student's resourcefulness and drive. There also isn't much if any difference between the quality of the academics between the elite unis and those in the list there.
As I've graduated I would say that the quality/type of the degree is more important than the idea of where one attended. And if people are concerned with employment blah blah blah, the former is what counts, from what I've seen.
The problem is that kids have a lot of entitlement and only think/feel that they deserve or are of the calibre of the elite unis and no less.
But a great education can be leaked out of virtually any institution (IMO) through a student's resourcefulness and drive. There also isn't much if any difference between the quality of the academics between the elite unis and those in the list there.
As I've graduated I would say that the quality/type of the degree is more important than the idea of where one attended. And if people are concerned with employment blah blah blah, the former is what counts, from what I've seen.
I agree to an extent but I get the impression that the bitterness of these Oxbridge rejects seems to seep into the students at places like say Durham and Exeter which is why they have never really made any meaningful leaps and bounds in terms of prestige or standing. they're just incredibly insular institutions and happy to lap up the inferiority complex they have in the shadow of Oxbridge.
Manchester are guilty of the same when they publish articles saying they have more top rated departments than Oxbridge or that the requirements for physics at Manchester are higher than Oxford. Be that as it may but why would "the best" students pass up on one of the most famous universities in the world to go to Manchester?
Why can't places like Manchester and Durham focus on what makes them so great and unique rather than trying to attempt to compete against Oxbridge, a battle they will never win?
Original post by TroyAndAbed
Not to the extent of Oxbridge though. Oxbridge are frequently mentioned in mainstream US media & known to the majority of people whereas I've not heard LSE mentioned once and doubt many would know it was a university.
Again I agree I'm just saying that if anyone wanted to know what was considered the 3rd best after oxbridge by global viewpoints then LSE ranks there.
I mean even Trinity College Dublin has a higher rep even amongst the average joe mainly because of it's position in Irish culture and history and given that TCD more than an institution is also one of Dublin's most famous landmarks (and the large Irish immigrant communities in the US).
TCD just doesn't have that high of a profile as it's cousins in the UK because of a severe lack of funding, which decreases research output and hence it's standing and number of nobel laureates etc.
I would still hold TCD in higher regard than the vast majority of the so called Russell Group universities with the exception of Oxbridge, LSE,UCL, Imperial, King's. I put Edinburgh high up for the reason explained before re: age of enlightenment etc. Bristol has always been reputable if not overrated at the best of times.
But if Ireland were still part of the UK and benefited from the funding, TCD would easily be the 3rd best university if not on par with Oxbridge and would have a greater list of nobel laureates and glittering alumni to its name.
Bad move leaving the UK, Ireland.
Original post by Hulkamaniac
Again I agree I'm just saying that if anyone wanted to know what was considered the 3rd best after oxbridge by global viewpoints then LSE ranks there.
I mean even Trinity College Dublin has a higher rep even amongst the average joe mainly because of it's position in Irish culture and history and given that TCD more than an institution is also one of Dublin's most famous landmarks (and the large Irish immigrant communities in the US).
TCD just doesn't have that high of a profile as it's cousins in the UK because of a severe lack of funding, which decreases research output and hence it's standing and number of nobel laureates etc.
I would still hold TCD in higher regard than the vast majority of the so called Russell Group universities with the exception of Oxbridge, LSE,UCL, Imperial, King's. I put Edinburgh high up for the reason explained before re: age of enlightenment etc. Bristol has always been reputable if not overrated at the best of times.
But if Ireland were still part of the UK and benefited from the funding, TCD would easily be the 3rd best university if not on par with Oxbridge and would have a greater list of nobel laureates and glittering alumni to its name.
Bad move leaving the UK, Ireland.
I mean even Trinity College Dublin has a higher rep even amongst the average joe mainly because of it's position in Irish culture and history and given that TCD more than an institution is also one of Dublin's most famous landmarks (and the large Irish immigrant communities in the US).
TCD just doesn't have that high of a profile as it's cousins in the UK because of a severe lack of funding, which decreases research output and hence it's standing and number of nobel laureates etc.
I would still hold TCD in higher regard than the vast majority of the so called Russell Group universities with the exception of Oxbridge, LSE,UCL, Imperial, King's. I put Edinburgh high up for the reason explained before re: age of enlightenment etc. Bristol has always been reputable if not overrated at the best of times.
But if Ireland were still part of the UK and benefited from the funding, TCD would easily be the 3rd best university if not on par with Oxbridge and would have a greater list of nobel laureates and glittering alumni to its name.
Bad move leaving the UK, Ireland.
Ah okay, in that case I'd agree about LSE. It manages to beat Oxford/Cambridge in certain fields; I just think it's been so long that it's near impossible for anyone to overtake Oxbridge anymore in terms of reputation.
I can sort of see where you're coming from with Edinburgh with the "best of Scotland" angle but can't wrap my head around Bristol. I'd class it with Durham in the perfectly fine places to get a degree but trying too hard to be Oxbridge category.
Original post by Hulkamaniac
All incredibly overrated moronic institutions which anyone with half a brain cell i.e. AAB-ABB could gain entry to.
All incredibly overrated moronic institutions which anyone with half a brain cell i.e. AAB-ABB could gain entry to.
I bet you're a nice person.
Original post by TroyAndAbed
Ah okay, in that case I'd agree about LSE. It manages to beat Oxford/Cambridge in certain fields; I just think it's been so long that it's near impossible for anyone to overtake Oxbridge anymore in terms of reputation.
I can sort of see where you're coming from with Edinburgh with the "best of Scotland" angle but can't wrap my head around Bristol. I'd class it with Durham in the perfectly fine places to get a degree but trying too hard to be Oxbridge category.
I can sort of see where you're coming from with Edinburgh with the "best of Scotland" angle but can't wrap my head around Bristol. I'd class it with Durham in the perfectly fine places to get a degree but trying too hard to be Oxbridge category.
Like I said it's more to do with Edinburgh and to an extent Glasgow's histories with regards to the AOE and Scottish history. Both too have produced PMs which Bristol hasn't.
I would rate Bristol as "best of the rest".
I also detest this notion that you should go somewhere for a good social life and hence consider Leeds and Manchester over Oxford. What because Oxbridge students do absolutely nothing in their spare time? The wealth of sporting and cultural opportunities there are immense and that doesn't even begin to mention the Oxford and Cambridge Unions where on a weekly basis you can attend talks from famous people from the UK and abroad.
Leeds and Manchester just can't provide that.
This is understandable, though I don't know much since I'm an American applicant to UK universities. On that note, and with respect to your initial point, what are some other universities that you would consider worthwhile in attending but are not too difficult to get into? I know that the US has some schools like that--respected, but not too selective--and I'm sure that the UK has at least a few. My grades definitely couldn't get me an offer from Oxbridge, maybe not even Edinburgh (based on entry requirements that I've seen), but my grades are not bad. I have a B average by US grading policies, which is different from those of the UK so I'm not sure of the extent to which you can provide feedback based on that, but I'd be happy to hear from you. You seem to have a relatively firm grasp on this.
If you need to know, I plan to study Biomedical Sciences. Thanks for the post; it's very informative and helpful to see your opinion and others as an American student.
If you need to know, I plan to study Biomedical Sciences. Thanks for the post; it's very informative and helpful to see your opinion and others as an American student.
Original post by rachthom15
This is understandable, though I don't know much since I'm an American applicant to UK universities. On that note, and with respect to your initial point, what are some other universities that you would consider worthwhile in attending but are not too difficult to get into? I know that the US has some schools like that--respected, but not too selective--and I'm sure that the UK has at least a few. My grades definitely couldn't get me an offer from Oxbridge, maybe not even Edinburgh (based on entry requirements that I've seen), but my grades are not bad. I have a B average by US grading policies, which is different from those of the UK so I'm not sure of the extent to which you can provide feedback based on that, but I'd be happy to hear from you. You seem to have a relatively firm grasp on this.
If you need to know, I plan to study Biomedical Sciences. Thanks for the post; it's very informative and helpful to see your opinion and others as an American student.
If you need to know, I plan to study Biomedical Sciences. Thanks for the post; it's very informative and helpful to see your opinion and others as an American student.
Try UCAS and searching the entry requirements and match them to universities.
But why leave the US system to come to the UK?
At least in the US each college tries to create its own brand, its on reputation, its own networking and alumni chapters and this helps students get further on in careers and grad school etc.
I mean places like Penn State and even UNC Chapel Hill or UCLA or Notre Dame have a better rep and opportunities than say Liverpool or Leeds.
Anything outside of Oxbridge, Imperial,UCL, King's, LSE, Bristol, Nottingham, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Warwick.........it's all piss poor really and not worth coming over for.
I'm applying to multiple schools here, including Penn State and UCLA. The main reason driving me to study in the UK is that I want a more international experience, and I want something different than what I've already experienced here. Sure, I can get different experiences here and maybe even study abroad, but I want to immerse myself completely into something new and different.
I do agree with you when you say that US colleges do attempt to create their own brand and reputation.
Are you sure that there aren't quality programs outside of that list? I'm applying to King's, and I've considered Edinburgh, but there have to be other universities that are internationally recognized or even have connections with other European schools for the future... I plan to also study languages and look into other European countries (i.e. France) for later studies.
I do agree with you when you say that US colleges do attempt to create their own brand and reputation.
Are you sure that there aren't quality programs outside of that list? I'm applying to King's, and I've considered Edinburgh, but there have to be other universities that are internationally recognized or even have connections with other European schools for the future... I plan to also study languages and look into other European countries (i.e. France) for later studies.
Original post by Hulkamaniac
Places which people claim are good or elite but are hardly prestigious beyond UK shores and are nowhere near the level of Oxbridge or the big 5.
They're pretentious and exist just massage the ego of so-called "Oxbridge Rejects". I detest that title because it somehow suggests those students were good enough to gain admission to Oxbridge but the reality is they weren't, they never were. They were simply "Oxbridge Applicants". Many people can be Oxbridge rejects.
But yeah such universities which seem to have inflated their own self-worth but let's be honest, nobody considers them prestigious or selective or exclusive or as a breeding ground for future leaders in their field:
- St Andrew's
- Manchester
- Exeter
- Durham
- York
- Leeds
- Sheffield
- Birmingham
- Newcastle
- Southampton
- Sussex
- Bath
- Loughborough
- Surrey
All incredibly overrated moronic institutions which anyone with half a brain cell i.e. AAB-ABB could gain entry to. Not exactly an exclusive society that lives and breathes academia, steeped in history or inspirational for the next batch of corporate, academic, political, scientific leaders.
Apart from Oxford, Cambridge, UCL, LSE, Imperial, King's College London, and possibly Edinburgh, Bristol and Nottingham (and the odd specialist college or institution like LSHTM), the rest are a bit rubbish aren't they?
They're pretentious and exist just massage the ego of so-called "Oxbridge Rejects". I detest that title because it somehow suggests those students were good enough to gain admission to Oxbridge but the reality is they weren't, they never were. They were simply "Oxbridge Applicants". Many people can be Oxbridge rejects.
But yeah such universities which seem to have inflated their own self-worth but let's be honest, nobody considers them prestigious or selective or exclusive or as a breeding ground for future leaders in their field:
- St Andrew's
- Manchester
- Exeter
- Durham
- York
- Leeds
- Sheffield
- Birmingham
- Newcastle
- Southampton
- Sussex
- Bath
- Loughborough
- Surrey
All incredibly overrated moronic institutions which anyone with half a brain cell i.e. AAB-ABB could gain entry to. Not exactly an exclusive society that lives and breathes academia, steeped in history or inspirational for the next batch of corporate, academic, political, scientific leaders.
Apart from Oxford, Cambridge, UCL, LSE, Imperial, King's College London, and possibly Edinburgh, Bristol and Nottingham (and the odd specialist college or institution like LSHTM), the rest are a bit rubbish aren't they?
Warwick?
Original post by rachthom15
I'm applying to multiple schools here, including Penn State and UCLA. The main reason driving me to study in the UK is that I want a more international experience, and I want something different than what I've already experienced here. Sure, I can get different experiences here and maybe even study abroad, but I want to immerse myself completely into something new and different.
I do agree with you when you say that US colleges do attempt to create their own brand and reputation.
Are you sure that there aren't quality programs outside of that list? I'm applying to King's, and I've considered Edinburgh, but there have to be other universities that are internationally recognized or even have connections with other European schools for the future... I plan to also study languages and look into other European countries (i.e. France) for later studies.
I do agree with you when you say that US colleges do attempt to create their own brand and reputation.
Are you sure that there aren't quality programs outside of that list? I'm applying to King's, and I've considered Edinburgh, but there have to be other universities that are internationally recognized or even have connections with other European schools for the future... I plan to also study languages and look into other European countries (i.e. France) for later studies.
UCLA has the better global brand name not necessarily academically selective but a decent GPA from there e.g. 3.5 and above would put you in good stead to do a master's at an Ivy School or even Oxbridge.
You would be better doing undergrad in the system you are familiar with as the US education is slightly behind the UK in that undergrad level is extremely focussed and US high school education does not equip you for this and you could end up hating the experience.
Also you might need a 3.7 minimum for Oxbridge.
But undergrad is an important first step and you ought to put yourself somewhere you can thrive and excel and get high marks and I suspect UCLA or PSU would do that and I am sure they have a vast network of experience to place you at a decent grad school including Oxbridge.
Oxbridge is the holy grail alongside the Ivies.
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