Why is WW2 and the build up to it always portrayed as one sided?

...

Very few people mention the fight back by the World Jewish Community and the boycott of German goods in 1930. How could this not be seen as anything but provocative? If you're living in an already oppressive regime and you try to fight the system in this manner then you are just adding more fuel to the flames. I think this was an incredibly stupid move by the community that probably helped Nazi Germany convince the German people the Jews hated them and used it as propaganda in the lead up to WW2.

I have heard of the 1933 boycott, but not that of 1930. Hitler was not even in power at that time. Could you provide more information or a link please? Even if true, you seem to be blaming an oppressed minority for resisting that oppression. Note that you are describing Jews living in Germany here.

In March 1933 this boycott went further. This time, Germany retaliated by imposing their own boycott and restrictions on Jewish businesses. This happened in April so was clearly after the boycott imposed by the Zionist Jewish communities. Again, this is barely ever mentioned. I was certainly not taught this during History lessons in school. Everything seemed so biased and one sided.

This is one point with which I agree - this boycott should form part of the narrative. However, did it have any real impact on the German economy? I have found no evidence that it did.

It's also been noted that one of Hitler's advisors was Jewish and that the Jews wanted him to attack Russia because of the communist Russian government nationalising a lot of property the Jewish believed was theirs. Russia was also extremely anti-Semitic. Whether this was a truth or not is another thing entirely as the only evidence is from a speech by Hitler himself who could have easily been lying to portray the Jewish people in a negative light. Again, propaganda. However, no one mentions the Jewish role in the Bolshevik Revolution when talking about all of this. Nobody seems to mention the intertwining historical events that led up to what we now know as WW2.
Who was the Jewish adviser?
I'm afraid I find most of this paragraph confusing. Are you saying that the Soviet government was anti-semitic? Dominated by Jews? To which Hitler speech are you referring?

The headline of the Daily Express on FRIDAY MARCH 24 1933 "Judea declares war on Germany"

It seems at the time that even Britain believed the actions of the Jewish people were so extreme that they were effectively declaring war on Germany. Again, this is rarely mentioned during history lessons. I imagine this is mentioned at degree level, I may be wrong, but I find it somewhat disturbing that a lot of these important details are left out and we're simply left with children coming out of school believing the Nazi's were the bad guys and the Jews were the good guys. That simply isn't the case and as always seems to be the case, there are two sides to every story.

It is frankly silly to equate a single headline in a right-wing newspaper with 'Britain'. Would you regard a headline in The Sun as equivalent to the whole of British public opinion? Again, I agree that this aspect should be included, but as Viceroy has explained, only with some sense of weight and balance. You are on the edge of arguing that an economic boycott organised overseas and of limited impact is justification for what happened to Jews inside Germany and the rest of Europe.

I also think they signed their own death warrant basically with some of the idiotic decisions they made such as boycotting German goods when they were already hated for reasons relating to economics. Also, it is worth noting this was Zionist Jews and not the Jewish community within Germany. Again, this never gets mentioned.

And yes, there you go arguing just what I said above. Your thinking is so woolly here. How can Jews inside Germany 'sign their own death warrant' when - by your own reasoning - they weren't even involved?

Another thing hidden from most is a lot of the disgusting and barbaric acts carried out by the Nazi's were actually British inventions. We do get taught this often when being taught about Britain raping and pillaging the world during colonisation but the direct link of those acts to those carried out by Nazi Germany is always left out. Why is this? One can only assume this is done to avoid Britain being perceived by the majority as evil as the Nazi's in an attempt to cover up our true vile history.

More woolly thinking. I assume you are talking about concentration camps here? If so, they are not a British invention, the principle of rounding people up to control them goes back centuries. And what on earth do you mean by 'the direct link' between acts carried out by colonial Britain and those by Nazi Germany? Are you arguing that British colonial activity caused (direct link) the Holocaust?

Looking back at all the actions of the Jewish community in the build up to WW2 its obvious they tried to provoke the beast on its own turf. When that beast woke and the Nazi regime truly kicked in they got it all back and hundred times more. Peaceful Jews who just wanted to live their lives got dragged into a conflict between Zionist Jews fighting back against an oppressive Nazi Germany.

The beast was already awake. Look at the many examples of Nazi brutality towards Jewish people and businesses before they achieved power in 1933.

This was not a one sided affair. It started as a two sided affair that goes back decades before WW2 actually took place but some refuse to accept that and just want to claim this was one sided from the off. It was not. Just because Germany ended it and then went on a warpath across Europe, that does not mean it was initially one sided. To suggest such is to rewrite history.

Although you have a couple of fair points, your own attempt to rewrite history has not been a success. While there are always two sides or more it is simply wrong to give both of them equal weight, which is what you are trying to do.

However, we must remember this does not negate the fact that Hitler and Nazi Germany were evil. Of course they were but that doesn't give us the right to rewrite what actually went on and educate people with biased information.

Historians, why do we never hear the full events at lower than degree level? I find it somewhat hypocritical when we're taught about bias, using primary and secondary sources in school yet the actual curriculum itself is biased.

The full story should be part of general history curricula. However, the story must be told carefully, as no one would want to make it seem as if the only possible response from the Germans was mass round-up, ghettoization, and attempted mass execution of the Jews across Europe. Regardless of what German Jews were up to (and it certainly wasn't all Jews who were being provocative, even though pretty much all Jews were meant to suffer by the hands of the Nazis), they (and the other groups the Nazis targeted) were not deserving of what happened to them. Those Germans who subscribed to extreme nationalistic ideologies would have hated the Jews no matter what they did; the Jewish race was marked down for systematic obliteration -- either literally or figuratively through conversion -- from the 18th c. onwards, and there were expulsions and mass executions of Jews in Germany much earlier than that (cf. history of the city of Nuremberg c. 1300-50).

See comments in bold.

Thanks both for providing more information. I wasn't trying to rewrite history but put across what i had learned in the hope that a historian actually could correct it so now I know the truth. I'm now at a position whereby what I was told during school and what I read through research, I'm somewhere in the middle in my belief, which I hoped would be the case.

Also, thanks for actually putting time into responses unlike the worthless response above both of yours that actually adds nothing to the discussion. +rep both.

You're welcome. Challenging orthodoxy is necessary, so I have no problem with people who do so in an intelligent manner. I see from your other posts you are in the process of applying to university - are you going to study history?

FWIW I believe Viceroy to be the most learned person on TSR with regard to this general topic, so take special note of his contributions.

Very few people mention the fight back by the World Jewish Community and the boycott of German goods in 1930. How could this not be seen as anything but provocative? If you're living in an already oppressive regime and you try to fight the system in this manner then you are just adding more fuel to the flames. I think this was an incredibly stupid move by the community that probably helped Nazi Germany convince the German people the Jews hated them and used it as propaganda in the lead up to WW2.

In March 1933 this boycott went further. This time, Germany retaliated by imposing their own boycott and restrictions on Jewish businesses. This happened in April so was clearly after the boycott imposed by the Zionist Jewish communities. Again, this is barely ever mentioned. I was certainly not taught this during History lessons in school. Everything seemed so biased and one sided.

...

The headline of the Daily Express on FRIDAY MARCH 24 1933 "Judea declares war on Germany"

It seems at the time that even Britain believed the actions of the Jewish people were so extreme that they were effectively declaring war on Germany. Again, this is rarely mentioned during history lessons. I imagine this is mentioned at degree level, I may be wrong, but I find it somewhat disturbing that a lot of these important details are left out and we're simply left with children coming out of school believing the Nazi's were the bad guys and the Jews were the good guys. That simply isn't the case and as always seems to be the case, there are two sides to every story.

I'm just following up on this specific question of the Jewish 'declaration of war' and it allegedly being the cause of the Nazi boycott of Jewish businesses and general mistreatment of Jews in Germany.

As you are interested in the subject you might want to read this: http://www.hdot.org/en/trial/defense/evans/540c.html

It's an extract from the testimony given by Professor Richard Evans at the Irving/Lipstadt libel trial in 2000. It contains detailed evidence of mistreatment of German Jews before the protests and boycott in the USA, and basically debunks the argument that 'the Jews started it'.

If you're only intent on coming in here and shouting stupid things like anti-semite with no basis or truths for your argument then do us all a favour and don't post at all. This is a serious topic, one that has implications on the education of future generations, and therefore should be debated seriously.

----

Every time we are taught or told about WW2, we hear that Nazi Germany was evil and that they were the ones always in the wrong and everybody else were the victims. I get they were evil and totally understand that but that shouldn't stop us from being told the truth about the build up to WW2 and the fight back against oppressive regimes implemented by the German government. We don't need to hide things the Jewish did to still believe Nazi Germany was evil. We know they were evil regardless.

Very few people mention the fight back by the World Jewish Community and the boycott of German goods in 1930. How could this not be seen as anything but provocative? If you're living in an already oppressive regime and you try to fight the system in this manner then you are just adding more fuel to the flames. I think this was an incredibly stupid move by the community that probably helped Nazi Germany convince the German people the Jews hated them and used it as propaganda in the lead up to WW2.

In March 1933 this boycott went further. This time, Germany retaliated by imposing their own boycott and restrictions on Jewish businesses. This happened in April so was clearly after the boycott imposed by the Zionist Jewish communities. Again, this is barely ever mentioned. I was certainly not taught this during History lessons in school. Everything seemed so biased and one sided.

It's also been noted that one of Hitler's advisors was Jewish and that the Jews wanted him to attack Russia because of the communist Russian government nationalising a lot of property the Jewish believed was theirs. Russia was also extremely anti-Semitic. Whether this was a truth or not is another thing entirely as the only evidence is from a speech by Hitler himself who could have easily been lying to portray the Jewish people in a negative light. Again, propaganda. However, no one mentions the Jewish role in the Bolshevik Revolution when talking about all of this. Nobody seems to mention the intertwining historical events that led up to what we now know as WW2.

The headline of the Daily Express on FRIDAY MARCH 24 1933 "Judea declares war on Germany"

It seems at the time that even Britain believed the actions of the Jewish people were so extreme that they were effectively declaring war on Germany. Again, this is rarely mentioned during history lessons. I imagine this is mentioned at degree level, I may be wrong, but I find it somewhat disturbing that a lot of these important details are left out and we're simply left with children coming out of school believing the Nazi's were the bad guys and the Jews were the good guys. That simply isn't the case and as always seems to be the case, there are two sides to every story.

I also think they signed their own death warrant basically with some of the idiotic decisions they made such as boycotting German goods when they were already hated for reasons relating to economics. Also, it is worth noting this was Zionist Jews and not the Jewish community within Germany. Again, this never gets mentioned.

Another thing hidden from most is a lot of the disgusting and barbaric acts carried out by the Nazi's were actually British inventions. We do get taught this often when being taught about Britain raping and pillaging the world during colonisation but the direct link of those acts to those carried out by Nazi Germany is always left out. Why is this? One can only assume this is done to avoid Britain being perceived by the majority as evil as the Nazi's in an attempt to cover up our true vile history.

Looking back at all the actions of the Jewish community in the build up to WW2 its obvious they tried to provoke the beast on its own turf. When that beast woke and the Nazi regime truly kicked in they got it all back and hundred times more. Peaceful Jews who just wanted to live their lives got dragged into a conflict between Zionist Jews fighting back against an oppressive Nazi Germany.

This was not a one sided affair. It started as a two sided affair that goes back decades before WW2 actually took place but some refuse to accept that and just want to claim this was one sided from the off. It was not. Just because Germany ended it and then went on a warpath across Europe, that does not mean it was initially one sided. To suggest such is to rewrite history.

However, we must remember this does not negate the fact that Hitler and Nazi Germany were evil. Of course they were but that doesn't give us the right to rewrite what actually went on and educate people with biased information.

Historians, why do we never hear the full events at lower than degree level? I find it somewhat hypocritical when we're taught about bias, using primary and secondary sources in school yet the actual curriculum itself is biased.

The full story should be part of general history curricula. However, the story must be told carefully, as no one would want to make it seem ......

Making something seem something or not seem something is propaganda.

How about we do away with all agendas, perception management, emotive history and just stick to the series of actual empirical facts. "They" (the powers that be) don't want that now, do they.




Posted from TSR Mobile

What, are you saying the powers that be don't want us to know that Germany militarised, invaded its neighbours and set out to systematically erase a race of people on the continent.

If you're only intent on coming in here and shouting stupid things like anti-semite with no basis or truths for your argument then do us all a favour and don't post at all. This is a serious topic, one that has implications on the education of future generations, and therefore should be debated seriously.

----

Every time we are taught or told about WW2, we hear that Nazi Germany was evil and that they were the ones always in the wrong and everybody else were the victims. I get they were evil and totally understand that but that shouldn't stop us from being told the truth about the build up to WW2 and the fight back against oppressive regimes implemented by the German government. We don't need to hide things the Jewish did to still believe Nazi Germany was evil. We know they were evil regardless.

Very few people mention the fight back by the World Jewish Community and the boycott of German goods in 1930. How could this not be seen as anything but provocative? If you're living in an already oppressive regime and you try to fight the system in this manner then you are just adding more fuel to the flames. I think this was an incredibly stupid move by the community that probably helped Nazi Germany convince the German people the Jews hated them and used it as propaganda in the lead up to WW2.

In March 1933 this boycott went further. This time, Germany retaliated by imposing their own boycott and restrictions on Jewish businesses. This happened in April so was clearly after the boycott imposed by the Zionist Jewish communities. Again, this is barely ever mentioned. I was certainly not taught this during History lessons in school. Everything seemed so biased and one sided.

It's also been noted that one of Hitler's advisors was Jewish and that the Jews wanted him to attack Russia because of the communist Russian government nationalising a lot of property the Jewish believed was theirs. Russia was also extremely anti-Semitic. Whether this was a truth or not is another thing entirely as the only evidence is from a speech by Hitler himself who could have easily been lying to portray the Jewish people in a negative light. Again, propaganda. However, no one mentions the Jewish role in the Bolshevik Revolution when talking about all of this. Nobody seems to mention the intertwining historical events that led up to what we now know as WW2.

The headline of the Daily Express on FRIDAY MARCH 24 1933 "Judea declares war on Germany"

It seems at the time that even Britain believed the actions of the Jewish people were so extreme that they were effectively declaring war on Germany. Again, this is rarely mentioned during history lessons. I imagine this is mentioned at degree level, I may be wrong, but I find it somewhat disturbing that a lot of these important details are left out and we're simply left with children coming out of school believing the Nazi's were the bad guys and the Jews were the good guys. That simply isn't the case and as always seems to be the case, there are two sides to every story.

I also think they signed their own death warrant basically with some of the idiotic decisions they made such as boycotting German goods when they were already hated for reasons relating to economics. Also, it is worth noting this was Zionist Jews and not the Jewish community within Germany. Again, this never gets mentioned.

Another thing hidden from most is a lot of the disgusting and barbaric acts carried out by the Nazi's were actually British inventions. We do get taught this often when being taught about Britain raping and pillaging the world during colonisation but the direct link of those acts to those carried out by Nazi Germany is always left out. Why is this? One can only assume this is done to avoid Britain being perceived by the majority as evil as the Nazi's in an attempt to cover up our true vile history.

Looking back at all the actions of the Jewish community in the build up to WW2 its obvious they tried to provoke the beast on its own turf. When that beast woke and the Nazi regime truly kicked in they got it all back and hundred times more. Peaceful Jews who just wanted to live their lives got dragged into a conflict between Zionist Jews fighting back against an oppressive Nazi Germany.

This was not a one sided affair. It started as a two sided affair that goes back decades before WW2 actually took place but some refuse to accept that and just want to claim this was one sided from the off. It was not. Just because Germany ended it and then went on a warpath across Europe, that does not mean it was initially one sided. To suggest such is to rewrite history.

However, we must remember this does not negate the fact that Hitler and Nazi Germany were evil. Of course they were but that doesn't give us the right to rewrite what actually went on and educate people with biased information.

Historians, why do we never hear the full events at lower than degree level? I find it somewhat hypocritical when we're taught about bias, using primary and secondary sources in school yet the actual curriculum itself is biased.

Phrasing it like that is a "Half truth". Germany didn't do anything that was unprecedented in history. The emotive history aside, it's the factors on the periphery of the events, the agreements, contracts, associations, plans, future roadmaps around these events that the powers that be don't want us to know about.

What is more, they are using the theme of hate to teach hate. Germany 1939 - 1945 is supposed to be the object of your deepest hate and loathing.

This hate is a mask for the things are are not meant to perceive.

And this hate is supposed to be projected unto those who state the facts that the powers that be don't want to state like the Balfour Declaration of 1917.


Posted from TSR Mobile