The Liverpool FC Thread XII
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What's with this transfer committee nonsense anyway? Obviously Liverpool have long term issues with transfer strategy, or lack thereof, so how is sticking another few heads into the brain trust going to help things run smoother? We've seen it time and time again, with Spurs and their director of football, with Abrahimovic at Chelsea, the manager needs complete control and final say over who comes and goes from a football club, otherwise youve all kinds of mixed up incentives and ideas.
Came out recently that LFC even offered a few million on top of what we did for Sanchez but he said no. So presumably youre after a proactive, hard working forward who can attack with intensity and take over from Suarez. How then does Balotelli enter into the picture? He's a million miles away from that, may as well get big Andy Carroll back.You wouldnt trust Liverpool to head down to Sainsbury's for a pint of milk and come back with change from a tenner, or the milk, at this stage.
On the subject of Brendan Rodgers' 'football philosophy', why does nobody bring up the fact in his initial season and at Swansea, he played passing keep ball football and continued with this well into last season? Only when Suarez really took off playing direct, pacey football and when Sturridge and Stirling joined in did he abandon it all. So in fact BR's entire success is based upon the players leading him down that alley, whether he had any say in it is anyone's guess but I suspect it was mainly Suarez. So where does that leave him now, playing the failed keep ball stuff again or continuing with the fast and direct stuff? Does Brendan even know himself? Obviously not from the players he signed.
You look at Liverpool now and you a see a team with less idea tactically then you did under Kenny K imho.
Came out recently that LFC even offered a few million on top of what we did for Sanchez but he said no. So presumably youre after a proactive, hard working forward who can attack with intensity and take over from Suarez. How then does Balotelli enter into the picture? He's a million miles away from that, may as well get big Andy Carroll back.You wouldnt trust Liverpool to head down to Sainsbury's for a pint of milk and come back with change from a tenner, or the milk, at this stage.
On the subject of Brendan Rodgers' 'football philosophy', why does nobody bring up the fact in his initial season and at Swansea, he played passing keep ball football and continued with this well into last season? Only when Suarez really took off playing direct, pacey football and when Sturridge and Stirling joined in did he abandon it all. So in fact BR's entire success is based upon the players leading him down that alley, whether he had any say in it is anyone's guess but I suspect it was mainly Suarez. So where does that leave him now, playing the failed keep ball stuff again or continuing with the fast and direct stuff? Does Brendan even know himself? Obviously not from the players he signed.
You look at Liverpool now and you a see a team with less idea tactically then you did under Kenny K imho.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Zürich
x
http://www.thisisanfield.com/2013/06/liverpool-fc-transfer-committee-explained/
tbf LFC did just have a director of football in Damien Comolli from 2010-12
Still cannot believe we spent £16m on Mario ****ing Balotelli. At no stage during the summer did I even remotely want us to go in for him but I didn't think he'd be this bad. I'd be interested to hear what kind of wages he's on.
Original post by Fizzel
Wasn't it Sev... who had the 30 goals for Giroud in his sig this season?
I think Lambert and Balotelli as signings go to show how inept Rodgers actually is, they are entirely different strikers to Sturridge, you've pretty much got to change the way the team plays when you change the striker. Someone like Remy or even Welbeck would have been a better option.
I think Lambert and Balotelli as signings go to show how inept Rodgers actually is, they are entirely different strikers to Sturridge, you've pretty much got to change the way the team plays when you change the striker. Someone like Remy or even Welbeck would have been a better option.
Yeah true. Lambert was being bought as a backup regardless, he was essentially an upgrade on Aspas and Borini so it's not that poor a signing, Balotelli I felt wasn't the most overwhelming of signing but would do ok for the value he was bought for.
Seems like I was wrong.
Original post by sevchenko
Completely fit all season, 30 goals all comps was achievable imo. It's only really now people are starting to see his value tbh. He's a great attacking alternative. He creates a nice Salt n Pepper combo with Alexis or Welbz
Salt and pepper is **** you gotta use proper seasoning like Maggi.
Original post by Zürich
On the subject of Brendan Rodgers' 'football philosophy', why does nobody bring up the fact in his initial season and at Swansea, he played passing keep ball football and continued with this well into last season? Only when Suarez really took off playing direct, pacey football and when Sturridge and Stirling joined in did he abandon it all. So in fact BR's entire success is based upon the players leading him down that alley, whether he had any say in it is anyone's guess but I suspect it was mainly Suarez. So where does that leave him now, playing the failed keep ball stuff again or continuing with the fast and direct stuff? Does Brendan even know himself? Obviously not from the players he signed.
You look at Liverpool now and you a see a team with less idea tactically then you did under Kenny K imho.
You look at Liverpool now and you a see a team with less idea tactically then you did under Kenny K imho.
Tbh Sturridge was the main man for Liverpool, the second Liverpool bought him results improved drastically. They took off playing direct to make the most of Sturridge. Suarez was still scoring some goals when they were doing death by football but the rest of the team had nowhere enough creativity, Suarez ain't as fast as Sturridge so you're not going to get many direct runs especially as Suarez likes to play off the striker rather than as main striker (exact same reason why he's struggling at Barca atm) but Sturridge's runs gave Suarez space.
Tbh Suarez should have gone Real Madrid and he should have taken Sturridge with him. Suarez, Ronaldo, Bale and Sturridge would be ridiculous firepower. Probably better than their current team tbh.
Original post by Isometrix
Just why would you sign him...
you knew what you were getting
you knew what you were gettingLack of options tbh. The club must have thought Sanchez was a possibility since they didn't go for Balotelli till quite late in the window.
Original post by Fizzel
Wasn't it Sev... who had the 30 goals for Giroud in his sig this season?
I think Lambert and Balotelli as signings go to show how inept Rodgers actually is, they are entirely different strikers to Sturridge, you've pretty much got to change the way the team plays when you change the striker. Someone like Remy or even Welbeck would have been a better option.
I think Lambert and Balotelli as signings go to show how inept Rodgers actually is, they are entirely different strikers to Sturridge, you've pretty much got to change the way the team plays when you change the striker. Someone like Remy or even Welbeck would have been a better option.
Well no one could have expected Sturridge to be out for so long. I think he just missed that 5 weeks spell last December but was otherwise generally fit?
Lambert was presumably signed as a back up and a plan B (as an alternative). We looked at Remy but didn't take the risk based on the medical. We also have Borini at the club and signed Origi who is also pacey for next summer. Balotelli isn't that slow once he's got his speed up, just has slow acceleration.
But yea, there were plenty of other options out there. The fact he's playing Sterling as a striker shows how much a pacey striker was needed for our tactics/set-up.
Original post by Zürich
What's with this transfer committee nonsense anyway? Obviously Liverpool have long term issues with transfer strategy, or lack thereof, so how is sticking another few heads into the brain trust going to help things run smoother? We've seen it time and time again, with Spurs and their director of football, with Abrahimovic at Chelsea, the manager needs complete control and final say over who comes and goes from a football club, otherwise youve all kinds of mixed up incentives and ideas.
Came out recently that LFC even offered a few million on top of what we did for Sanchez but he said no. So presumably youre after a proactive, hard working forward who can attack with intensity and take over from Suarez. How then does Balotelli enter into the picture? He's a million miles away from that, may as well get big Andy Carroll back.You wouldnt trust Liverpool to head down to Sainsbury's for a pint of milk and come back with change from a tenner, or the milk, at this stage.
On the subject of Brendan Rodgers' 'football philosophy', why does nobody bring up the fact in his initial season and at Swansea, he played passing keep ball football and continued with this well into last season? Only when Suarez really took off playing direct, pacey football and when Sturridge and Stirling joined in did he abandon it all. So in fact BR's entire success is based upon the players leading him down that alley, whether he had any say in it is anyone's guess but I suspect it was mainly Suarez. So where does that leave him now, playing the failed keep ball stuff again or continuing with the fast and direct stuff? Does Brendan even know himself? Obviously not from the players he signed.
You look at Liverpool now and you a see a team with less idea tactically then you did under Kenny K imho.
Came out recently that LFC even offered a few million on top of what we did for Sanchez but he said no. So presumably youre after a proactive, hard working forward who can attack with intensity and take over from Suarez. How then does Balotelli enter into the picture? He's a million miles away from that, may as well get big Andy Carroll back.You wouldnt trust Liverpool to head down to Sainsbury's for a pint of milk and come back with change from a tenner, or the milk, at this stage.
On the subject of Brendan Rodgers' 'football philosophy', why does nobody bring up the fact in his initial season and at Swansea, he played passing keep ball football and continued with this well into last season? Only when Suarez really took off playing direct, pacey football and when Sturridge and Stirling joined in did he abandon it all. So in fact BR's entire success is based upon the players leading him down that alley, whether he had any say in it is anyone's guess but I suspect it was mainly Suarez. So where does that leave him now, playing the failed keep ball stuff again or continuing with the fast and direct stuff? Does Brendan even know himself? Obviously not from the players he signed.
You look at Liverpool now and you a see a team with less idea tactically then you did under Kenny K imho.
I think the idea is that if the manager makes all the decisions about transfers but then you fire him due to results/performances on the pitch, you have no continuity in transfers going forward/back. So it was probably more to quash the Andy Carroll effect - Kenny wanted him but in hindsight others would've said no?
Rodgers sits on the committee along with managing director Ian Ayre, head of recruitment Dave Fallows and head of performance and analysis Michael Edwards. I believe Rodgers has the final say on whether a player is signed but at least the others can veto any terrible transfers?
Who else was there in the market? Sanchez left in early July and Welbeck didn't seem to be on the market until very late August when Man Utd signed Falcao. We signed Balotelli in between that. There was a really lack of strikers on the market. We signed Origi but Lille wanted him back on loan for a season. We looked hard at Remy but then we decided it was too high risk based on his medical. I'm struggling to think who else we could have moved for?
I actually disagree that Rodgers continued to play passing football well into last season. He tried to for a month or two at the start but then realised he needed to sacrifice either a defender or a midfield player to accommodate both Sturridge/Suarez up top and then wanted Gerrard playing the quarterback. We've been playing pretty direct football for a while now. Can't really see that changing until Gerrard hangs up his boots.
Original post by sevchenko
Balo probably wasn't available earlier in the window because Milan wanted to recoup the money they spent on him. Raiola (Balo's agent) was drumming up interest all summer. In the end Inzaghi and Berlusconi decided to cut their losses and just get rid.
It seems to me they just used Remy's heart condition as a reason to cancel the deal. If Rogers really wanted him he would have overlooked the condition tbh his condition hasn't really affected Remy at all. A deal for Balo appeared so Rogers went for the better option
It seems to me they just used Remy's heart condition as a reason to cancel the deal. If Rogers really wanted him he would have overlooked the condition tbh his condition hasn't really affected Remy at all. A deal for Balo appeared so Rogers went for the better option
Maybe Balo made it easier for them to drop out, but what was to stop them from just pulling out without bringing Remy's heart condition into it, completing a medical doesn't mean the transfer is complete, they could of just said no and went for Balo. When abouts did Balo come available? Was it before, during or after the medical? You keep saying Rodgers but it's obvious he didn't want Balo but was probably pressured to sign him by the committee. Either way, he ****ed up by signing him away.
Balotelli isn't a Rodgers type player, he got rid of Caroll as he wasn't either. Lambert is 32 years old and will only be here as a backup 3rd/4th choice for a season, but Balotelli makes no sense as a 1st/2nd choice striker for the long term as he doesn't fit.
For the bold bit, can managers really overrule medicals? Otherwise what would be the point in them? It was because of the risk involved in his condition that they didn't sign him, yh it hasn't affected him now but there's always a risk of something happening in the future.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by jam277
Tbh Sturridge was the main man for Liverpool, the second Liverpool bought him results improved drastically. They took off playing direct to make the most of Sturridge. Suarez was still scoring some goals when they were doing death by football but the rest of the team had nowhere enough creativity, Suarez ain't as fast as Sturridge so you're not going to get many direct runs especially as Suarez likes to play off the striker rather than as main striker (exact same reason why he's struggling at Barca atm) but Sturridge's runs gave Suarez space.
Tbh Suarez should have gone Real Madrid and he should have taken Sturridge with him. Suarez, Ronaldo, Bale and Sturridge would be ridiculous firepower. Probably better than their current team tbh.
Tbh Suarez should have gone Real Madrid and he should have taken Sturridge with him. Suarez, Ronaldo, Bale and Sturridge would be ridiculous firepower. Probably better than their current team tbh.
Sturridge is the more clinical striker but Suarez was such as creative hub. He really became the heart of the team which made it tick and raised everyone else's performances.
They wouldn't have made so much space at Real Madrid for Suarez. And he doesn't fit their clean image. Tbh both Real Madrid and Barca are going to get top heavy and then get destroyed in the latter stages of the CL. I can see Suarez leaving Barcelona within 2-3 years.
Original post by Zerforax
Sturridge is the more clinical striker but Suarez was such as creative hub. He really became the heart of the team which made it tick and raised everyone else's performances.
Tactically Sturridge was important though, Sturridge was the one who made the runs in behind Suarez could do that to an extent but not to Sturridges level. Sturridge could create too.
http://eplindex.com/24927/daniel-sturridge-solves-liverpools-tactical-problems.html
Anyway you changed the formation slightly as Enrique was injured so Johnson was the most advanced, Gerrard played deep etc. but the message of that is tactically Sturridge solved a problem that was very hard to solve.
They wouldn't have made so much space at Real Madrid for Suarez. And he doesn't fit their clean image. Tbh both Real Madrid and Barca are going to get top heavy and then get destroyed in the latter stages of the CL. I can see Suarez leaving Barcelona within 2-3 years.
Yeah they would have space for him and Barcelona's mantra is "mes que un club"
Madrid is not that top heavy, Kroos is a good enough no.6 and Ancelotti knows how to make unbalanced systems balanced as he showed at Chelsea using Anelka and Malouda as attacking midfielders when Malouda is a winger and Anelka was a striker, Milan with Pirlo deep and Kaka up top and now Real Madrid.
Barcelona aren't top heavy, their problem is down to setup. Suarez was never the type of forward suited to solve Barcelona's attacking problems as he played counter attacking football they need a big fat no.9 who knows how to play and they leave shed loads of space for players to counter in the middle.
Original post by jam277
Tactically Sturridge was important though, Sturridge was the one who made the runs in behind Suarez could do that to an extent but not to Sturridges level. Sturridge could create too.
http://eplindex.com/24927/daniel-sturridge-solves-liverpools-tactical-problems.html
Anyway you changed the formation slightly as Enrique was injured so Johnson was the most advanced, Gerrard played deep etc. but the message of that is tactically Sturridge solved a problem that was very hard to solve.
Yeah they would have space for him and Barcelona's mantra is "mes que un club"
Madrid is not that top heavy, Kroos is a good enough no.6 and Ancelotti knows how to make unbalanced systems balanced as he showed at Chelsea using Anelka and Malouda as attacking midfielders when Malouda is a winger and Anelka was a striker, Milan with Pirlo deep and Kaka up top and now Real Madrid.
Barcelona aren't top heavy, their problem is down to setup. Suarez was never the type of forward suited to solve Barcelona's attacking problems as he played counter attacking football they need a big fat no.9 who knows how to play and they leave shed loads of space for players to counter in the middle.
http://eplindex.com/24927/daniel-sturridge-solves-liverpools-tactical-problems.html
Anyway you changed the formation slightly as Enrique was injured so Johnson was the most advanced, Gerrard played deep etc. but the message of that is tactically Sturridge solved a problem that was very hard to solve.
Yeah they would have space for him and Barcelona's mantra is "mes que un club"
Madrid is not that top heavy, Kroos is a good enough no.6 and Ancelotti knows how to make unbalanced systems balanced as he showed at Chelsea using Anelka and Malouda as attacking midfielders when Malouda is a winger and Anelka was a striker, Milan with Pirlo deep and Kaka up top and now Real Madrid.
Barcelona aren't top heavy, their problem is down to setup. Suarez was never the type of forward suited to solve Barcelona's attacking problems as he played counter attacking football they need a big fat no.9 who knows how to play and they leave shed loads of space for players to counter in the middle.
I know just the guy...
Spoiler
Original post by Tom_Ford
I know just the guy...
Spoiler
The funniest thing about this is that Giroud would work wonders at Barca for my preferred system. Mandzukic would have been my pick though more aggressive and better aerial ability.
Original post by jam277
The funniest thing about this is that Giroud would work wonders at Barca for my preferred system. Mandzukic would have been my pick though more aggressive and better aerial ability.
Yeah, Giroud's linkup play can be world class really. Shame his positioning and his finishing is not Barca quality, which tbh are the most important traits of a striker.
Mandz imo, is superior in several regards. Not least the personality facet, he is a ****ing animal. He can also play the deft little flicks to onrushing players that Giroud does. Defenders are most likely scared of him. He is one of my favourite strikers, I rate him highly because there is a brutal efficiency to his game and in his role there are very very few better than him.
Original post by jam277
Tactically Sturridge was important though, Sturridge was the one who made the runs in behind Suarez could do that to an extent but not to Sturridges level. Sturridge could create too.
http://eplindex.com/24927/daniel-sturridge-solves-liverpools-tactical-problems.html
Anyway you changed the formation slightly as Enrique was injured so Johnson was the most advanced, Gerrard played deep etc. but the message of that is tactically Sturridge solved a problem that was very hard to solve.
Yeah they would have space for him and Barcelona's mantra is "mes que un club"
Madrid is not that top heavy, Kroos is a good enough no.6 and Ancelotti knows how to make unbalanced systems balanced as he showed at Chelsea using Anelka and Malouda as attacking midfielders when Malouda is a winger and Anelka was a striker, Milan with Pirlo deep and Kaka up top and now Real Madrid.
Barcelona aren't top heavy, their problem is down to setup. Suarez was never the type of forward suited to solve Barcelona's attacking problems as he played counter attacking football they need a big fat no.9 who knows how to play and they leave shed loads of space for players to counter in the middle.
http://eplindex.com/24927/daniel-sturridge-solves-liverpools-tactical-problems.html
Anyway you changed the formation slightly as Enrique was injured so Johnson was the most advanced, Gerrard played deep etc. but the message of that is tactically Sturridge solved a problem that was very hard to solve.
Yeah they would have space for him and Barcelona's mantra is "mes que un club"
Madrid is not that top heavy, Kroos is a good enough no.6 and Ancelotti knows how to make unbalanced systems balanced as he showed at Chelsea using Anelka and Malouda as attacking midfielders when Malouda is a winger and Anelka was a striker, Milan with Pirlo deep and Kaka up top and now Real Madrid.
Barcelona aren't top heavy, their problem is down to setup. Suarez was never the type of forward suited to solve Barcelona's attacking problems as he played counter attacking football they need a big fat no.9 who knows how to play and they leave shed loads of space for players to counter in the middle.
Well what Sturridge gave was the pace in behind. That meant teams defender deeper and in turn Suarez was closer to goal to hurt them when he beat a man with his magical talents. There were plenty of times when Suarez got in behind too - this was more due to his anticipation than his pace though.
Not sure where Real Madrid would fit Suarez if they have Benzema up top and then Bale, Rodriguez and Ronaldo behind. Suarez wouldn't lead the line or be so selfless as Benzema is.
Real Madrid use their Galacticos model - each individual star is a brilliant player and can sell shirts on his image alone. Suarez's has the footballing ability but not the image (which has been tarnish by a number of incidents). Barca don't use their player images as much. Obviously Messi has a huge one and Neymar was similar but it's not quite the same intense model as Real Madrid imo.
They don't look top heavy against middle-bottom league sides or half decent CL opposition but when they come up against top opposition, they will either steamroller them or get steamrolled imo. You break that Kroos/Modric pivot and then what? The fullbacks will get exposed and probably the CBs too. If the team are starved of the ball, I don't know if they can still power through those games?
Same applies to Barca tbh with having 3 up front who may/may not work so hard without the ball.
Barca are always going to play with Messi up front though which leaves no space for a number 9?
I'm praying for a GK in January, and a TOP striker please, no more Balotelli's or Lambert's
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30516598
Savage on Rodgers' purchases - you have to largely agree with him.. a lot of our transfers have been a miss.
Savage on Rodgers' purchases - you have to largely agree with him.. a lot of our transfers have been a miss.
Original post by Zerforax
Well what Sturridge gave was the pace in behind. That meant teams defender deeper and in turn Suarez was closer to goal to hurt them when he beat a man with his magical talents. There were plenty of times when Suarez got in behind too - this was more due to his anticipation than his pace though.
Not sure where Real Madrid would fit Suarez if they have Benzema up top and then Bale, Rodriguez and Ronaldo behind. Suarez wouldn't lead the line or be so selfless as Benzema is.
Not sure where Real Madrid would fit Suarez if they have Benzema up top and then Bale, Rodriguez and Ronaldo behind. Suarez wouldn't lead the line or be so selfless as Benzema is.
Suarez for Benzema easily. Although I'd say Suarez and Sturridge>Benzema and Rodriguez.
Real Madrid use their Galacticos model - each individual star is a brilliant player and can sell shirts on his image alone. Suarez's has the footballing ability but not the image (which has been tarnish by a number of incidents). Barca don't use their player images as much. Obviously Messi has a huge one and Neymar was similar but it's not quite the same intense model as Real Madrid imo.
They don't look top heavy against middle-bottom league sides or half decent CL opposition but when they come up against top opposition, they will either steamroller them or get steamrolled imo. You break that Kroos/Modric pivot and then what? The fullbacks will get exposed and probably the CBs too. If the team are starved of the ball, I don't know if they can still power through those games?
They don't look top heavy against middle-bottom league sides or half decent CL opposition but when they come up against top opposition, they will either steamroller them or get steamrolled imo. You break that Kroos/Modric pivot and then what? The fullbacks will get exposed and probably the CBs too. If the team are starved of the ball, I don't know if they can still power through those games?
I know that but that doesn't mean Suarez can't sell shirts he's a global superstar.
How many sides do you know that are capable of breaking the pivot? Atlético and that's it nobody else can. Real were starved of the ball against Barcelona and had 42% possession and they thrashed them 3-1. Ancelotti plays 4-4-2 in games when they don't have the ball, gets the wingers to track back while Ronaldo and Benzema go ham in the middle.
Same applies to Barca tbh with having 3 up front who may/may not work so hard without the ball.
Barca are always going to play with Messi up front though which leaves no space for a number 9?
Barca are always going to play with Messi up front though which leaves no space for a number 9?
Not really Messi plays as a right sided 10 atm, Neymar is the left sided 10 but slightly more advanced than Messi and Suarez plays up top obviously their formation requires a little bit of fluidity so a guy will have a stint on the wing though but a big fat striker would do them a world of good than 3 players who work best as 9.5's/10s rather than as the main no.9.
With world class players they usually find their way out of a situation though.
Original post by jam277
Barcelona aren't top heavy, their problem is down to setup. Suarez was never the type of forward suited to solve Barcelona's attacking problems as he played counter attacking football they need a big fat no.9 who knows how to play and they leave shed loads of space for players to counter in the middle.
If anything he's shown so far that he's just the right type of forward and is doing what he's been bought for. He's not suffering from the style of football (i.e. not counter-attacking) either, but from a lack of service from midfield, just like the other forwards. A big fat no. 9 would have suffered even more, and wouldn't have added as much as Suárez, especially in this particular set up, but would only have emphasised the fractured state of play. LS is doing just fine, only a little rusty in his finishing.
Not really Messi plays as a right sided 10 atm, Neymar is the left sided 10 but slightly more advanced than Messi and Suarez plays up top obviously their formation requires a little bit of fluidity so a guy will have a stint on the wing though but a big fat striker would do them a world of good than 3 players who work best as 9.5's/10s rather than as the main no.9.
Neymar is really playing as a left forward, not a 10, which he did last season, that's why his scoring has increased so much and his involvement in build-up play decreased. Messi is playing in his wing role he had in the first years under Guardiola, only drops deeper sometimes out of necessity to provide service for the others. They all work together very well and, as I said, a Mandzukic-style no. 9 wouldn't have improved the attacking fluidity as much. Neither do Barcelona have the players or style that would integrate that type of forward very well, and if there's need in some games, then Sandro is just the right type of player to play in that position and has shown he can do the job.
(edited 9 years ago)
Rodgers seemed livid in his press conference. Only lasted four minutes.
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