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Is the online concept of 'alpha male' designed to prey on men's insecurities?

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Original post by A5ko
A real Alpha, would be sleeping with the guys wife whilst he works, then taking his wage at the end of every month.


That sounds more like a parasite than an alpha male.
Original post by SmashConcept
There aren't actually very good evolutionary explanations for "alpha males." Human beings have often tended to have a fairly fluid social structure. That's actually part of our adaption and is more natural than having a "pack leader."

Precisely my point. Social groups do adapt but humans ARE anmals.

Watch the bloody fight of elephant seals for a harem of females. Similar behaviour seen in our not too distant relatives too and some would argue within our very own species.

Cases of sexual dimorphism (see phesants and peacocks) only illustrate my point. Why would an animal choose to go to such costly pains to attract a mate other than because it cannot choose - it can only be selected.

There is of course a balance to be had and interesting paradoxical beahviours (see R.A. Fisher and W.D. Hamilton) but the point still stands.
Original post by SmashConcept
There aren't actually very good evolutionary explanations for "alpha males." Human beings have often tended to have a fairly fluid social structure. That's actually part of our adaption and is more natural than having a "pack leader."


It is controversial that the same people would be leaders and dominant in every situation.


Humans are animals, but even most animals don't have such simplistic social structures. The term came from grey wolves, but it turned out that it was only an artifact of their being kept in captivity. A few species of primates follow the structure, such as gorillas and internet pickup artists.


Precisely my point. Social groups do adapt but humans ARE anmals.

Watch the bloody fight of elephant seals for a harem of females. Similar behaviour seen in our not too distant relatives too and some would argue within our very own species.

Cases of sexual dimorphism (see phesants and peacocks) only illustrate my point. Why would an animal choose to go to such costly pains to attract a mate other than because it cannot choose - it can only be selected.

There is of course a balance to be had and interesting paradoxical beahviours (see R.A. Fisher and W.D. Hamilton) but the point still stands.
Original post by jaffacake111
Precisely my point. Social groups do adapt but humans ARE anmals.

Watch the bloody fight of elephant seals for a harem of females. Similar behaviour seen in our not too distant relatives too and some would argue within our very own species.

Cases of sexual dimorphism (see phesants and peacocks) only illustrate my point. Why would an animal choose to go to such costly pains to attract a mate other than because it cannot choose - it can only be selected.

There is of course a balance to be had and interesting paradoxical beahviours (see R.A. Fisher and W.D. Hamilton) but the point still stands.

A lot of animals seem to avoid conflict by the hawk/dove game theory concept. Theoretically animals want to minimize conflict while maximizing chances of mating, so they need to be either alpha/beta depending on the situation or even randomly. In the game they use territory to make the decision as to whether they should be dominant or submissive.
Reply 24
Avatar for Kaiju
Kaiju
16
works in societies of simpletons.

works if the men/women you're going for have single-digit IQ's.

Original post by SmashConcept
Humans are animals, but even most animals don't have such simplistic social structures. The term came from grey wolves, but it turned out that it was only an artifact of their being kept in captivity. A few species of primates follow the structure, such as gorillas and internet pickup artists.

^^
Original post by therapiststeve
The alpha male at my school failed his BTEC while my nerdy friend is doing law at Cambridge. It doesn't work in human society


I would say that your Cambridge-attending Law undergraduate is an Intellectual Alpha on track to being Corporate Alpha with social proof. See?
Original post by A5ko
A real Alpha, would be sleeping with the guys wife whilst he works, then taking his wage at the end of every month.


nah man that's Dark Triad lol
Original post by Smash Bandicoot
I would say that your Cambridge-attending Law undergraduate is an Intellectual Alpha on track to being Corporate Alpha with social proof. See?


Yes but in a different society he wouldn't be.
Original post by therapiststeve
Yes but in a different society he wouldn't be.


I have Pmed you
Original post by Gjaykay
'Alpha Male' Is not a word.


Word sentence statement I don't care don't simply refute it, we are not losers
The Hobbit movies perfectly exhibit this. In reality, the Alpha male is Thorin Oakenshield. A strong, independent, courageous, knowledgeable leader who can progress onwards with his followers. On the internet, the alpha male is Bolg. A big, brutish, hench warrior who is all about showing off his muscles and intimidating others.
Original post by Arkasia
The Hobbit movies perfectly exhibit this. In reality, the Alpha male is Thorin Oakenshield. A strong, independent, courageous, knowledgeable leader who can progress onwards with his followers. On the internet, the alpha male is Bolg. A big, brutish, hench warrior who is all about showing off his muscles and intimidating others.


Yes, well, I want to be Thorin without the whole ending to the Battle of the Five Armies-do my threads make sense now? :tongue:
Duh, of course it is.

It's the male equivalent of the beauty industry saying to women 'buy this or you will be ugly'. In both cases, the people saying it are after your money.
Original post by Smash Bandicoot
Yes, well, I want to be Thorin without the whole ending to the Battle of the Five Armies-do my threads make sense now? :tongue:


Yeah but before then he was an absolute dick because he expected loyalty and respect where it was not deserved.
Original post by SmashConcept
A lot of animals seem to avoid conflict by the hawk/dove game theory concept. Theoretically animals want to minimize conflict while maximizing chances of mating, so they need to be either alpha/beta depending on the situation or even randomly. In the game they use territory to make the decision as to whether they should be dominant or submissive.


At risk of hijacking original thread, I understand your point and it is achievable in principle if not in practice.

The seeming symbiosis - a kind of "you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours" - is even seen across species and in quite unlikely scenarios (see Crocodiles and plovers) so I am not disputing this.

Similarly if all trees in a wood could agree to grown no taller than a critical height the pay off would be mutually benefical but alas this is not how it works. Just like for the dividends paid to me with a headache if everyone at a party could agree to talk instead of shout...

Am reminded of Dawkins (I think in "River Out of Eden") saying with his usual effortless style that he does so well:

"The total amount of suffering per year in the natural world is beyond all decent contemplation. During the minute it takes me to compose this sentence, thousands of animals are being eaten alive; others are running for their lives, whimpering with fear; others are being slowly devoured from within by rasping parasites; thousands of all kinds are dying of starvation, thirst and disease. [...] In a universe of blind physical forces and genetic replication, some people are going to get hurt, other people are going to get lucky, and you won't find any rhyme or reason in it, nor any justice. The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil and no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference."
Original post by Arkasia
Yeah but before then he was an absolute dick because he expected loyalty and respect where it was not deserved.


dragon sickness bruh
Original post by Smash Bandicoot
dragon sickness bruh


He wanted the gold, and was nearly destroyed by his greed. You want power and respect, see the parallels?
Original post by Arkasia
He wanted the gold, and was nearly destroyed by his greed. You want power and respect, see the parallels?


apt :tongue: PRSOM
Reply 38
Avatar for lucaf
lucaf
13
Yes it is. There is some truth in it, in that some men are going to be more successful with women than others, but its actual importance in human society is massively overstated. So many morons ranting on the internet saying "a man has to be tall, ripped, rich and handsome to get even attention from an ugly fat chick", and I do have to wonder if they have ever actually been outside and noticed that pretty much everyone else is managing to get girls just fine.
It's a ridiculous idea and yes, of course it preys on men's securities because that's where it came from. The whole concept is a congealed mass of insecurity.

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