James Bond to become black? Thoughts?

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There aren't many black roles but

Mena Suvari in stuck, blonde woman playing a charecter that was supposed to be black
Josh Hartnett in 30 days of night, white man playing inuit person
Angelina Jolie in A mighty Heart playing a mixed race woman. She even darkened her skin
Jim sturgess in 21 white playing Asian
Justin Chatwin playing Goku in dragonball evolution
and the examples i mentioned before there's more i cant be bothered to list. It's fairly common.

A lot of those listed were made to look like the characters they embodied.Wouldn't you say there are plenty examples where it goes the other way around?i.e. Casting two black actors as Orlando and Oliver in the As you Like it adaptation?Or freckled-ginger annie being played by a black girl?etc etc. This thing can go both ways(and neither makes much sense anyway). p.s.Dragonball evolution is a convoluted messed up pile of crap(i don't think the producers even know what was going on in there...the thing is all-out-weird and the ethnicity of the leading guy wasn't the only thing out-of place)

Reply 101

Drewski

Original post by MatureStudent36

There's are many none whites in Britain, but not that many non whites who were raised in a Scottish orphanage after their wealthy land owning family dies, and become a commander in the Royal Navy.

But that backstory only exists because Sean Connery played him that way in Dr No, leading Fleming to write it in for his next book. The chicken came after the egg.

Reply 102

Jammy Duel

Original post by Crystalz

Lots, no bond girl, different romances, different dynamic, different story/

What a load of tosh. I suppose I could take your approach and now suggest you sexist and the likes. What're you saying? Are you suggesting that if you had a woman as Bond they couldn't possibly follow the same plots? Are you suggesting that women can't play poker or shoot straight or anything like that?
Are you suggesting that the gender of the romance is important, how sexist/homophobic of you!
And the story is different how? The Romance is the story element, the details of the romance are merely the fine points, are you suggesting that a man couldn't play the part of a damsel in distress, how dare you say such things you sexist swine.

Reply 103

Jammy Duel

Original post by Modern Casanova

They've made Thor into a woman, because of political correctness (and an outcry from the Feminist board).

Is there an actual source for this, because when I last heard this the "proof" was a woman cosplaying, which is something completely different.

Reply 104

P357

Original post by Thechillyone

Exactly what do they have more in common? I've said this before but I'll happily say it again...the movies have deviated so ridiculously from the books and from each other what stops them from introducing a new storyline? Keep saying that but how the **** do you know that? Did I miss something? Did the producers say that at some point ?

Hey, it's you who contradicted himself not me.

They do have more in common though. There is always more similarity between two white guys or two black guys than there is between a white guy and a black dude...My focus was mainly on the background,Daniel Craig simply fits the background better(the whole half scottis,half-swiss thing etc).The films have deviated from the original storyline,but hey,who says you need to change the whole thing?I honestly think you people out there who are set out on proving something would be more pleased with a black James Bond than a new series with a black spy that has his own storyline.

How do I know what?That this whole thing is about proving a point?Well,because the casting of Daniel Craig that was received badly by the series' fan base never really made it into the mainstream 'cause people never had anything bad to to bitch about. The abuse he was treated with by long-time fans of the james bond saga wasn't made into anything. Now that the same people don't want the saga to deviate EVEN MORE from the originals the SJW's are ALL OUT with their racism mantra. It most certainly IS about proving a point.

I didn't contradict myself anywhere.

Reply 105

Observatory

Original post by MatureStudent36

There's are many none whites in Britain, but not that many non whites who were raised in a Scottish orphanage after their wealthy land owning family dies, and become a commander in the Royal Navy.

Whereas this is a typical family background for whites? Even as a literary stereotype it's 50-70 years old - just like the ageless 30-something Bond character's career.

The James Bond background, like the Sharpe background, is largely a mess created without much prior planning for purposes of plot convenience. It can be handwaved without causing any more damage than is already done.

Reply 106

Observatory

Original post by Tai Ga

Are you serious? Do you know how long hollywood has whitewashed roles and there's been absolutely nothing said or done about it? Read through the thread and stop ignoring the numerous examples that people have given. Double standards for sure.

He's right to the extent that, while it certainly happens, people also complain about it a lot.

Reply 107

MrFlash1994

Hollywood has had white men playing black men, white men playing south asian men, white men playing east asian men,
gay men playing straight men, this is hardly a big deal.... Sean Connery was the only Scottish man to play Bond anyway if we want to be that pedantic.

And as has already been said, Idris Elba is currently the best British actor for the role, skin colour shouldn't matter here.

Reply 108

MagicNMedicine

I wonder how many of those that are up in arms saying the Ian Fleming books said he was white, have actually read the Ian Fleming books.....because the character of Bond you see in the films is very different from the Bond in the books.

Roger Moore for one, was a million miles away from the Bond of the books. In the books he doesn't go round chatting up women and delivering humorous one-liners. Yes he does get involved with women sometimes but he's not painted as a smooth charming operator, he's basically a focused professional spy.

The Bond films have never tried to be replicas of the book plots although some are based on the book plots and some mix in plotlines from different books and so on. I just think you have to see the Bond films as very different from the books. It's not like making the film of the Hunger Games or Fifty Shades of Grey or whatever where there are legions of book fans that want the book replicated as close as possible - the Bond film franchise and book series are very different and most people that watch the films have never bothered with the books.

Even Bond nerds on Bond forums and so on see the franchises as very different and don't expect the film Bond to directly follow the book Bond.

Reply 109

Thechillyone

Original post by P357

So, there isn't black scots or black swiss people? No white south africans or white rhodesians?

Daniel Craig wasn't moaned for being blond or blue eyed or any other feature he was born with unless I am mistaken. He was moaned at for his acting. Definitely wasn't as severe as this too.

Reply 110

P357

Original post by Thechillyone

Minorities. It's not very believable to use a minority as the face of a character that is supposed to be an ethnic native(unless said minority looks like said ethnic native character...so for example,an ethnic persian would make sense). I very much doubt many people would be convinced or pleased with a would-be Singaporean/Zimbabwe long-established-saga with a white protagonist,especially one based on a novel that explicitly states that said protagonist is oriental/black.
The casting of Daniel Craig was received badly specifically within the fan-boy community(that's prior the actual release). He was frowned upon from day one.

Reply 111

Drewski

Original post by Thechillyone

Daniel Craig wasn't moaned for being blond or blue eyed or any other feature he was born with unless I am mistaken. He was moaned at for his acting. Definitely wasn't as severe as this too.

Oh, I remember plenty of articles complaining about a blonde Bond when he was cast originally.

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 112

Thechillyone

Original post by P357

Believable? What is this a historically accurate portrayal of the inner working of MI6? You and your assumptions ! How do you know that people wouldn't be pleased? Just because that's the case with you it doesn't mean that is the case for everyone else!

Look, people were complaining about Craigs acting right ? If people were saying 'Idris Elba is a **** actor' 'Idris Elba is an ******* personally' or something to do with his acting I'd say go right on that's your opinion but thats not the case is it?

Reply 113

Catholic_

Original post by Reptilian

Who cares what his colour is??

Posted from TSR Mobile

Shame you don't say when people are telling us our workforces or managers are too white.

Reply 114

Thechillyone

Original post by Drewski

But that Bond identity only really exists because of Sean Connery. If another actor had played him in those first films we'd have a different 'identity' for future actors to match up to.

Oh, I remember plenty of articles complaining about a blonde Bond when he was cast originally.

Not sure I saw any of those. I doubt the complaints became this outrageous. Nevertheless I might be wrong.

Still, look at how many people complained and now people are saying he's one of the best Bonds ever. Goes to show

Reply 115

Observatory

Original post by Tai Ga

To be fair, the only time I've seen the scale of complaints equal to this instance is in regards to the Exodus casting choices. I think that's because a lot of people were getting fed up tbh.

According to this article criticism dates back to at least the 1960s.

On the specific question of Exodus, I think it was a catch 22 situation. If they had portrayed the escapees as white Jews and the evil captors as Arabic or Mediterranean-looking people, they would have been called racists for that too just like the 300 producers were. If they had made everyone look Arabic, Jews would have objected that the film makers are essentially saying their claim to be a distinct matrilineal race and separate nation to the Egyptians is a lie, undermining the whole point of the Exodus story. If they had cast African-Americans as Egyptians - i.e. Bantu sub-Saharan west Africans - then they would have been just as historically inaccurate as they were in casting North Europeans.

The other numerous examples of whitewashing have not garnered the same amount of attention, and the replacement of white actors with ethnic actors does not happen in nearly the same frequency that the reversal does. Most importantly, I've haven't heard anybody criticising the choice of Idris echo similar sentiments about white washing in hollywood. More than the casting choices, it's the hypocrisy which annoys me.

I suggest that some people want to see ethnic minority actors more (in any/every role) and others want to see them less or not at all, or only in niche roles that couldn't be played by non-minority actors, and that both sides clothe their essentially chauvinist views in situational claims about appropriateness or accuracy.

edit: having said that I'd like to point out that our actual movie industry does not resemble either extreme. There are plenty of black actors cast in cool roles that didn't specifically need a black actor. Morgan Freeman has probably funded his pension plan by playing God and the President of the United States, for instance. There are a lot of films with black leads that could have been played by white men; there could be a lot more, but why should there be? At what point is it "enough", or at least no longer indicative of malicious intent? It's not at all clear to me that anyone in the movie business cares about anything other than bankability and, a distant second, artistic integrity in choosing actors.

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 116

Crystalz

Original post by Catholic_

Shame you don't say when people are telling us our workforces or managers are too white.

What does that have to do with this.

Reply 117

Drewski

Original post by Thechillyone

Oh, no, certainly not this vociferous or widespread - partly helped by the fact that the last few Brosnan films had been tat - but they were definitely there.
Now that Bond has once again become a very big deal it's inevitable that it'll get more attention.

Fwiw, while I think Elba would do a stellar job and I have no problem with "Bond being black" I just fear that if someone were to become a black bond that that's all they'd ever be known as, people wouldn't see past that.

Reply 118

Jammy Duel

Original post by MagicNMedicine

he's basically a focused professional spy.

So focused professional spys drink and smoke so much that they should have a short life expectancy, unhealthy and ineffective?

As an additional aside, people saying they've already deviated because he's Scottish in the books, it has been suggested (although I can't actually read the original source since I don't own the book) that he is Scottish because Connery is, and the book that reveals his background was written after Dr No.