The Israel/Palestine Conflict Mk. IV

I'm sorry. Are you trying to imply that the Palestinians have been peaceful until only recently.

Prior to the rocket attacks, we had the suicide bombings that started in 89.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_suicide_attacks

But it goes way, way further back than that.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_Israeli–Palestinian_conflict

Indiscriminate rocket attack or suicide attack against civilian targets?

I was merely pointing out that you gave in the region of 24 years and declared it 30-40, quite a difference. It's also easy to criticise them when not in their position, I really wonder how many of those that hate on the whole of Palestine for the actions of the few would actually behave and feel if they were in that position, if the positions of Israel and Palestine were reversed, so Palestine were the larger power occupying Israel, would the Americans still stand up for Israel? Would the Israelis take is lying down or would they resort to terrorism because they have no other platform? If in the current situation, if a minor Israeli faction attacked Palestine, would the Israeli government be blamed? Would that lead to vindication for Israel? Of course it wouldn't.

Israel is a european colony. Quite simple really. A country that has nuclear weapons and is hated by every single country around it. A country that has been in war every single day of its existence since 1948. A country that has Jewish expansionist policies, leading to the occupation of Palestinian land, which the UN views as occupied, but ofcourse speaking out against this is "Anti-Semitic". Along with a bit of systematic persecution and the creation of a giant wall around the Palestinians, people ask why have these Palestinian savages elected Hamas? Just think about it a bit, the opressor is superior to the opressed and the only way they see justice is to fight back. Either way, Israel is a terror state and before anyone talks about Palestine becoming another "muslim country" Israel is a Jewish state and if you go to occupied territories you see bloody ginger blue eyed jews arguing they have a connection to the land as "God gave it to them".

And yet Israel still kicks the arae of its neighbours when they try to take military action against it.

Fortunately Egypt and Jordan won't be doing anything silly again.

Yep, arabs are very un united and disorganised. Israel is stronger than these stupid arab puppets of the US. But does Israel's power make it a legitimate state, NOPE.

The Palestinians have every right to resist the occupation; the Israelis have an obligation to withdraw from the Occupied Territories.



Incorrect. Who used violence in response to a free and fair democratic election in 2006 and 2007? Israel. Who broke the ceasefire which Hamas were abiding by before the Gaza Massacre of 2008? Israel - on numerous occasions in fact - they fired on unarmed Palestinian civilians, went after Palestinian fishing boats and then killed Hamas officials, leading Hamas to respond.

At the end of the 2012 Israeli attacks on Gaza, another ceasefire was negotiated. Hamas, once again, did not break the ceasefire, while Israel broke it on numerous occasions. Israel then, in June 2014, presided over the mass arrest of hundreds of Hamas political officials in the West Bank, and conducted an air strike which killed Hamas members in Gaza, prompting Hamas to respond in self-defence. And, the rest, as they say, is history: children killed on beaches; numerous UN schools shelled; civilian infrastructure deliberately and intentionally targeted.



Do you have any evidence for these assertions? I could just as easily assert that the only reason you support Israel is because of your "hatred" for some left-wingers - your knee-jerk response is to side with the government's interpretation. Luckily, Israel's useful idiots are diminishing.



That minor faction already exists. It's called the IDF, and it has the full support of the Israeli government which has implemented an apartheid system in the Occupied Territories and now wishes to fully style itself as a Jewish state, meaning that Arab rights even in the unoccupied territories may be severely curtailed (they already have restrictions regarding the land they can buy).

I don't see the Israel state going anywhere now , or at any time in the future.

Israel is a european colony. Quite simple really. A country that has nuclear weapons and is hated by every single country around it. A country that has been in war every single day of its existence since 1948. A country that has Jewish expansionist policies, leading to the occupation of Palestinian land, which the UN views as occupied, but ofcourse speaking out against this is "Anti-Semitic". Along with a bit of systematic persecution and the creation of a giant wall around the Palestinians, people ask why have these Palestinian savages elected Hamas? Just think about it a bit, the opressor is superior to the opressed and the only way they see justice is to fight back. Either way, Israel is a terror state and before anyone talks about Palestine becoming another "muslim country" Israel is a Jewish state and if you go to occupied territories you see bloody ginger blue eyed jews arguing they have a connection to the land as "God gave it to them".

Israel is on Google maps, while Palestine is not. That's all we need to know.

The Palestinians have every right to resist the occupation; the Israelis have an obligation to withdraw from the Occupied Territories.

The Palestinians have been "resisting" before the 1967 occupation. The PLO was established in 1964 (three years before the 6 day war) and their charter writes, and I quote:

"This Organization does not exercise any territorial sovereignty over the West Bank in the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan, on the Gaza Strip or in the Himmah Area. Its activities will be on the national popular level in the liberational, organizational, political and financial fields." (Article 24)

Tel Aviv is no less of an occupation than a West Bank settlement.

The IDF isnt a minor faction. It is a branch of the democratically elected israeli government.
Still, doesn't Impact me in the slightest.

It's interesting that you quote an outdated charter. The same tactic is, incidentally, used by people concerning Hamas.

In any case, the Palestinian territories currently in place comprises 22% less of the land that was designated for the State of Palestine in 1947. Israel are getting a good deal, and yet they still continue to prevent any progress from taking place on the two-state solution, which is the only peaceful solution available.



Precisely my point. It's not just a minor faction, unfortunately, in Israel which is indiscriminately attacking civilians, deliberately targeting civilian infrastructure and implementing an Apartheid system in the territories which it occupies. It's the government itself. So, you talked about accountability and how you'd hold the Israeli government responsible for the actions of a minor group, but in actual it's the Israeli government itself which has to face accountability from all of us.

It may not affect you, but it affects thousands of people under brutal occupation.

http://www.thewire.com/global/2014/09/hamas-quietly-admits-it-fired-rockets-from-civilian-areas/380149/

I'd class Red Sea pedestrians as many things, but not brutal.

I've already stated, previously, that both Israel and Hamas should be held accountable for their crimes. Edit: the likelihood of which has been increased seeing as Palestine have now joined the International Criminal Court.

The IDF actially operate within the
Law.

I shan't behilding my breath to see either side in court.

Many disagree with that statement, including people withing the legal division of the IDF http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Analysis-IDF-probes-into-Gaza-war-conduct-threatens-to-tear-military-apart-from-within-386327

As for the court thing, in a move that has been continually opposed by Israel, the PLO are applying to become signatries of the ICC, a move which makes it possible for either side to be brought up on war crime charges. http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2014/12/palestinians-decide-join-icc-201412311710935422.html

And many in the legal system will acknowledge that Hamas break the law.

We can start seeing the icc becoming another political football.

It's interesting that you quote an outdated charter. The same tactic is, incidentally, used by people concerning Hamas.

In any case, the Palestinian territories currently in place comprises around 20% less of the land that was designated for the State of Palestine in 1947. Israel are getting a good deal, and yet they still continue to prevent any progress from taking place on the two-state solution, which is the only peaceful solution available.

Just merely pointing out that the PLO (Palestine liberation organization) was established to "liberate" all of Israel even when it had recognized borders and not necessarily to do with some disputed settlements that were built much later.

Israel already has 78% of Palestine in its pre-1967 borders, its not exactly a gift for you to call it a "good deal".

Its true that for a variety of reasons the latest negotiations failed, but you can't claim that Israel has never made concessions, cause they have offered a Palestinian state 6 times. Just recently in 2000 and 2008 they offered a Palestinian state in all of the West Bank with East Jerusalem as their capital, but both Arafat and Abbas turned those offers down.