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Deadly gun attack in Paris: Global reactions & discussion

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Original post by mariachi
do you know that the first written accounts about Muhammad are in fact from Byzantine chroniclers - and they start some years after Muhammad's death ? there are no contemporary written accounts about Muhammad's life

on the contrary, Alexander's life is attested by a huge amount of accounts written during his lifetime

in any case, the theory that Muhammad is a mythical figure is not defended by a couple of isolated nutcases, but by respected professors in Western academia

which is all I wanted to say


I respect that. Fair point I suppose.

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Reply 561
Original post by PopaPork
Because what you believe is a choice. Your race is not.


From your point of view perhaps, to them it is the same. If you think there is freedom of choice in religion in Islamic countries you are seriously deluded.
Original post by Dexa
Well no, instead of insulting and degrading a race they've done it to a religion. The intent to offend is there in both. Why is insulting someones race worse than insulting someones religion?
because we are all human, independently from our race; while some religions advocate murderous and inhuman behaviour, and do not deserve respect

also, we cannot change our race, but we can change our religion
Original post by Dexa
From your point of view perhaps, to them it is the same. If you think there is freedom of choice in religion in Islamic countries you are seriously deluded.


Don't give a stuff about 'Islamic countries'

In the west your faith is a choice and even Muslims have this choice.
Original post by Dexa
Well no, instead of insulting and degrading a race they've done it to a religion. The intent to offend is there in both. Why is insulting someones race worse than insulting someones religion?


Maybe because one is about beliefs and one is about their biological make up?

Beliefs can be criticised.
Reply 565
Original post by PopaPork
Don't give a stuff about 'Islamic countries'

In the west your faith is a choice and even Muslims have this choice.


Original post by mariachi
because we are all human, independently from our race; while some religions advocate murderous and inhuman behaviour, and do not deserve respect

also, we cannot change our race, but we can change our religion


Original post by Wahid-r
Maybe because one is about beliefs and one is about their biological make up?

Beliefs can be criticised.


So you're saying people should have to change their religion to avoid being insulted or criticised?

If there's freedom of speech then there's equally freedom of choosing to believe in what they want to without having to conform to change.
Original post by Dexa
So you're saying people should have to change their religion to avoid being insulted or criticised?

If there's freedom of speech then there's equally freedom of choosing to believe in what they want to without having to conform to change.


Uhh what?

People are free to believe what they want to believe, and I'm free to believe that their beliefs are stupid/evil.
Anyone who can should buy a subscription to Charlie Hebdo to show solidarity with their cause and with the principle of freedom of speech and expression.
Original post by Dexa
So you're saying people should have to change their religion to avoid being insulted or criticised?

If there's freedom of speech then there's equally freedom of choosing to believe in what they want to without having to conform to change.

who said that people aren't allowed to be muslim?
Original post by Dexa
If there's freedom of speech then there's equally freedom of choosing to believe in what they want to without having to conform to change.
just like political ideologies, some religions advocate practices which are inhuman, hateful and (lastly) against the law; they do not deserve any sort of respect
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Dexa
So you're saying people should have to change their religion to avoid being insulted or criticised?

If there's freedom of speech then there's equally freedom of choosing to believe in what they want to without having to conform to change.


No I'm saying is you have the same rights as everyone else.:rolleyes:

One of these rights means religion is a choice so any offence taken is through choice.

Or are you saying Mslims are being denied this freedom so should be treated differently?
Original post by Dexa
So you're saying people should have to change their religion to avoid being insulted or criticised?


You really don't get the difference between an insult targeted at a specific person and an offence targeted at a system of belief that is somehow taken personally by the specific person, do you?

EVERYTHING can be criticised, and EVERYTHING can be made fun of. Christianity is being made fun of in the West on a daily basis, and hardly any Christian cares. In the Middle East Western countries, people and Christians are being made fun of and insulted every single day. Some important Saudi political figure (forgot who it was) made statements on television about how the infidels are pigs, even worse than pigs. How many death threats did he receive? How many Christian Europeans went to Saudi Arabia to gun him down?
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Wahid-r
Uhh what?

People are free to believe what they want to believe, and I'm free to believe that their beliefs are stupid/evil.


I think he wants to be free to do the first but deny you the freedom to do the second.
Original post by Viceroy
Anyone who can should buy a subscription to Charlie Hebdo to show solidarity with their cause and with the principle of freedom of speech and expression.
I entirely agree

by the way, this heinous (but idiotic) massacre will have, as a consequence, that Charlie Hebdo's drawings will be published and republished all over again
Original post by PopaPork
I think he wants to be free to do the first but deny you the freedom to do the second.


Yes and I doubt he'll ever see the inconsistency. *sigh*

Original post by mariachi
I entirely agree

by the way, this heinous (but idiotic) massacre will have, as a consequence, that Charlie Hebdo's drawings will be published and republished all over again


Inshallahn it will.
Reply 575
Original post by clh_hilary
Serious.

There is a difference between an individual expressing his/her view, whatever it is; and to give said view special treatment.

There's also the advantage in this particular case: People realise how serious things are for gay people in some countries and have more sympathy towards gay people as a result.

There's also something deeply problematic about laws banning certain views from being uttered. How do you decide on what to ban and what not to ban? Why ban hate speech against gays but not hate speech against vegans?


From my point of view hate speech against gays and drawings of the prophet are the same. You can't ban one yet allow the other.
Original post by Qari
From my point of view hate speech against gays and drawings of the prophet are the same. You can't ban one yet allow the other.


Which is why I have remained consistent and said neither should be banned. :rolleyes:
Reply 577
Original post by clh_hilary
Which is why I have remained consistent and said neither should be banned. :rolleyes:


Then I can't say much to you. Your views in my opinion are the same in all circumstances
Here's a little history fact

We have been using satire to attack religion and politics in this country longer than the islamic ban on images of Mohammed.

Can I now say I'm offended at this attack on a deeply cherrished tradition and anyone who challenges this tradition deserves what they get?
Reply 579
Original post by Qari
So then by your belief a person who believes death to homosexuals should be allowed to draw and speak about it as much as they want because it might make their life miserable if they can't
No, because they are calling for someone to be killed for their sexuality.

Freedom of speech does not cover incitement to murder.

Ridiculing a ridiculous religion is not incitement to murder (other than your own, of course).

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