Feeling accepted in Britain (for ethnic minorities)
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Original post by queen-bee
Thank god I don't live in France,I wouldn't be able to hack it,like seriously.
Indeed. Consider yourself lucky!
In the aftermath of the Charlie Hebdo attack, I can sense a ****storm brewing.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by jedanselemyia
Indeed. Consider yourself lucky!
In the aftermath of the Charlie Hebdo attack, I can sense a ****storm brewing.
In the aftermath of the Charlie Hebdo attack, I can sense a ****storm brewing.
I would probably have been a victim of much more violent racial abuse over there than I ever will in the UK
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by queen-bee
I would probably have been a victim of much more violent racial abuse over there than I ever will in the UK
It's definitely safe to say yes, you would have.
Although mixed people are idolised just like anywhere else.
I'd say that being arab in France is tougher than being black. And that's coming from somebody who's half black.
Original post by queen-bee
So today,I went out to the pharmacy to get some essentials etc and as I was walking back home I came across two guys who seemed to look normal at first sight. One of them then just suddenly came up to me and started asking questions about where i'm from and then went on to insult my background after I told him I was part middle eastern and part italian. He also blamed 'my people' for the Paris attack today and was rambling on and on,bearing in my mind this was in a shop and everyone could hear and see the harsh racist comments he was making. He said stuff like 'oh you will never be british,no matter what you or you people do to try to fit in'...
so after I left the store and got home, I started thinking further about what he was saying. I mean I may have been born here but I don't even feel british at all! I've never dated a fully british guy for this reason I guess. I mean, I follow a similar culture(drinking,partying,how I dress etc) but will ethnic minorities ever be accepted into british society?! Do those on this forum who were born into ethnic families feel like they are accepted or do you still feel like an outsider?
so after I left the store and got home, I started thinking further about what he was saying. I mean I may have been born here but I don't even feel british at all! I've never dated a fully british guy for this reason I guess. I mean, I follow a similar culture(drinking,partying,how I dress etc) but will ethnic minorities ever be accepted into british society?! Do those on this forum who were born into ethnic families feel like they are accepted or do you still feel like an outsider?
When I was very small I thought I was British. I thought Britain was really cool and I was obsessed with King Arthur.
But it was only as I got older that people started to point out my differences or single me out.
I have to admit though that it was a minority. But it didn't feel like a minority. Mainly due to the amount of people that were willing to "look the other way". But in the grand scheme of things this wasn't every day. But I think the negative experiences are louder memories then the good. Kinda like how you always remember the planes that crash and not the ones that land.
But I'm not gonna lie I don't really feel British. I feel like I fit in more with just general pan-foreign people than native British.
Original post by Mick.w
When I was very small I thought I was British. I thought Britain was really cool and I was obsessed with King Arthur.
But it was only as I got older that people started to point out my differences or single me out.
I have to admit though that it was a minority. But it didn't feel like a minority. Mainly due to the amount of people that were willing to "look the other way". But in the grand scheme of things this wasn't every day. But I think the negative experiences are louder memories then the good. Kinda like how you always remember the planes that crash and not the ones that land.
But I'm not gonna lie I don't really feel British. I feel like I fit in more with just general pan-foreign people than native British.
But it was only as I got older that people started to point out my differences or single me out.
I have to admit though that it was a minority. But it didn't feel like a minority. Mainly due to the amount of people that were willing to "look the other way". But in the grand scheme of things this wasn't every day. But I think the negative experiences are louder memories then the good. Kinda like how you always remember the planes that crash and not the ones that land.
But I'm not gonna lie I don't really feel British. I feel like I fit in more with just general pan-foreign people than native British.
I more or less feel the same and it doesn't help when you experience nonsense like this
Original post by Foo.mp3
I would encourage you to look into the economics of immigration
I would encourage you to look into the economics of immigration
Spoiler
In theory that's wonderful, but I come from a crummy town in the midlands, and it's shocking how many people here don't work. And yes, many, many of them are emigrants. However, that statistic is promising. And just for the record, my hatred of benefit scoungers extends to everyone, not just emigrants.
Original post by Foo.mp3
I need to get over myself because I want to live in a cohesive society in my own country/hometown? Ok mate 
They do indeed, at law at least
I’m sorry, who do you mean by ‘they’? A bunch of self-serving/myopic ivory tower liberal elite puppet-politicians (global capitalist skivvies) from history? Oh, well I guess that’s ok then
Depends what you mean by ‘fit in’. I’ve yet to meet someone who feels they don’t fit into UK society, and I’ve had friends from all over the world, many of them a lot less Westernised than yourself
You readily associate with me, and I am actually relatively right wing compared to your average white Brit, let alone your average Londoner!
Some parents are bound to be narrow minded, or at least have some reservations, but less so if you’re not Muslim/male, lettuce be cereal. My parents are far more liberal than I, and very welcoming/accepting, indeed my mum is the type to find someone from another culture a source of fascination, and did bellydancing herself for a few years
More genetically in common, for sure. Owt else is a supposition
Young + parents = your answer. An older, mature, and more worldly, guy would be less likely to see it as a problem
By whom/what standard?- did you read my bullets on Britishness?
You have mixed heritage so that’s unsurprising. Maybe it’s ok not to feel 100% British. Maybe you should be chuffed you have such an interesting background
Who blames them?
I would encourage you to look into the economics of immigration
More concerned? I’m not sure that would stop xenophobia, or necessarily be less divisive, although I agree that perhaps it should be approached differently..
It’s the later, and it can in the sense that we can put an end to mass immigration, if not the massive birth rate among certain immigrant groups
We can encourage people to return to lands to which they are better suited however
Yes
Yes. The reason inter-civilisational mixing has caused major friction throughout history is identity vs. the reason it has worked out over the very long term in the end, in some cases, is the evolution of identity
What attitude?
It’s not a solution, it’s la mode du jour in many advanced (enlightened/scientific/liberal) societies, ergo, a near inevitability
What I meant is Muslims becoming more moderate, and more concerned with worldly realities e.g. their fellow man (be he a kafir or not). In terms of the literal definition of secularism all this means is the Government not bending over to/for Islam, although I would go further than that personally
They do indeed, at law at least
I’m sorry, who do you mean by ‘they’? A bunch of self-serving/myopic ivory tower liberal elite puppet-politicians (global capitalist skivvies) from history? Oh, well I guess that’s ok then
Spoiler
Depends what you mean by ‘fit in’. I’ve yet to meet someone who feels they don’t fit into UK society, and I’ve had friends from all over the world, many of them a lot less Westernised than yourself
You readily associate with me, and I am actually relatively right wing compared to your average white Brit, let alone your average Londoner!
Some parents are bound to be narrow minded, or at least have some reservations, but less so if you’re not Muslim/male, lettuce be cereal. My parents are far more liberal than I, and very welcoming/accepting, indeed my mum is the type to find someone from another culture a source of fascination, and did bellydancing herself for a few years
More genetically in common, for sure. Owt else is a supposition
Young + parents = your answer. An older, mature, and more worldly, guy would be less likely to see it as a problem
By whom/what standard?- did you read my bullets on Britishness?
You have mixed heritage so that’s unsurprising. Maybe it’s ok not to feel 100% British. Maybe you should be chuffed you have such an interesting background
Who blames them?
I would encourage you to look into the economics of immigration
Spoiler
More concerned? I’m not sure that would stop xenophobia, or necessarily be less divisive, although I agree that perhaps it should be approached differently..
Spoiler
It’s the later, and it can in the sense that we can put an end to mass immigration, if not the massive birth rate among certain immigrant groups
We can encourage people to return to lands to which they are better suited howeverYes
Yes. The reason inter-civilisational mixing has caused major friction throughout history is identity vs. the reason it has worked out over the very long term in the end, in some cases, is the evolution of identity
What attitude?
It’s not a solution, it’s la mode du jour in many advanced (enlightened/scientific/liberal) societies, ergo, a near inevitability
What I meant is Muslims becoming more moderate, and more concerned with worldly realities e.g. their fellow man (be he a kafir or not). In terms of the literal definition of secularism all this means is the Government not bending over to/for Islam, although I would go further than that personally
I associate with you because we have a genuine connection and I click with you,you accept me,if I sensed you were hesitant about my background I would be very sad and upset because you matter a lot to me,that can't be said for 99.9% of white Brits out there. That's one of the reasons I was always afraid to tell you my heritage in detail.
Not just in terms of genetics but all Europeans are similar in one way our another,just somehow connected.
Ive yet to see a successful arab-English relationship tbh,it never really works out because of the culture clash.
I know what your parents are like,particularly your mother but in general im sure your parents would be much more happier if you brought back an English girl home or European rather than this immigrant
That being said,I would love to talk to your mother about belly dancing for hours and you know how I feel about meeting your parents
I know,but wouldn't you agree that there may be things from my culture you will never understand or agree with? Because it's unfamiliar in your culture etc
Like when I told you about the circumsicion practice and giving gifts and money,that may have been something completely new to you and weddings aren't conducted in the simple way Brits do it,usually lots of practices are involved,just the whole culture is different...
Yes I have read your bullet points and I do meet the standards for all of them but I still will never feel 100% accepted. And I would like to feel 100% british,not just for me but for you too,it's better to be on the same page
Original post by queen-bee
I associate with you because we have a genuine connection and I click with you,you accept me,if I sensed you were hesitant about my background I would be very sad and upset because you matter a lot to me,that can't be said for 99.9% of white Brits out there. That's one of the reasons I was always afraid to tell you my heritage in detail.
Not just in terms of genetics but all Europeans are similar in one way our another,just somehow connected.
Ive yet to see a successful arab-English relationship tbh,it never really works out because of the culture clash.
I know what your parents are like,particularly your mother but in general im sure your parents would be much more happier if you brought back an English girl home or European rather than this immigrant
That being said,I would love to talk to your mother about belly dancing for hours and you know how I feel about meeting your parents
I know,but wouldn't you agree that there may be things from my culture you will never understand or agree with? Because it's unfamiliar in your culture etc
Like when I told you about the circumsicion practice and giving gifts and money,that may have been something completely new to you and weddings aren't conducted in the simple way Brits do it,usually lots of practices are involved,just the whole culture is different...
Yes I have read your bullet points and I do meet the standards for all of them but I still will never feel 100% accepted. And I would like to feel 100% british,not just for me but for you too,it's better to be on the same page
Not just in terms of genetics but all Europeans are similar in one way our another,just somehow connected.
Ive yet to see a successful arab-English relationship tbh,it never really works out because of the culture clash.
I know what your parents are like,particularly your mother but in general im sure your parents would be much more happier if you brought back an English girl home or European rather than this immigrant
That being said,I would love to talk to your mother about belly dancing for hours and you know how I feel about meeting your parents
I know,but wouldn't you agree that there may be things from my culture you will never understand or agree with? Because it's unfamiliar in your culture etc
Like when I told you about the circumsicion practice and giving gifts and money,that may have been something completely new to you and weddings aren't conducted in the simple way Brits do it,usually lots of practices are involved,just the whole culture is different...
Yes I have read your bullet points and I do meet the standards for all of them but I still will never feel 100% accepted. And I would like to feel 100% british,not just for me but for you too,it's better to be on the same page
Also, the Coptic faith does not permit one to marry a non-Oriental Orthodox individual :P
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by IBBOOM
So why do you stay here? Your racist accusation of England being spearheaded by White Engrisch elitists, they founded this country and its values. Hence why move to a country with these long standing views, if you do, don't complain about it. Makes sense no?
Anyways I thought everything is always the Americans fault by default?
Anyways I thought everything is always the Americans fault by default?
I aint going nowhere. How dare you accuse me of being racist. Why don't you tell your "white" people to leave America for the Native Indians and leave Australia for the indigenous Australians and leave South Africa for the indigenous Africans before you question my right to live in the UK.
Original post by al_94
I aint going nowhere. How dare you accuse me of being racist. Why don't you tell your "white" people to leave America for the Native Indians and leave Australia for the indigenous Australians and leave South Africa for the indigenous Africans before you question my right to live in the UK.
Will all the Arabs leave North Africa and return to the Middle East too?
Original post by IBBOOM
You just called all english people white supremacists. I'll call you a racist.
I'm not white.
You didn't answer my question, why will you not go somewhere else if you hate it so much here and get blamed for everything by white supremacists? It is their country and traditions to keep and practise how they please, not for anyone to arrive and start changing them because they feel offended.
Why should white people leave America? They conquered it, as has much of the land of many peoples throughout history you genius.
I'm not white.
You didn't answer my question, why will you not go somewhere else if you hate it so much here and get blamed for everything by white supremacists? It is their country and traditions to keep and practise how they please, not for anyone to arrive and start changing them because they feel offended.
Why should white people leave America? They conquered it, as has much of the land of many peoples throughout history you genius.
I never said all English people are White supremacists I don't know what you've been smoking. I'll say again how dare you question me and my right to live in my country of birth. You are an ignorant person you need help you can't tell me to leave the UK because I'm not indigenous but say White people can live anywhere because they "conquered" it which is racist in itself because the whites of today never conquered anything so basically you're saying they have a birth right because of their skin colour.
Original post by Borgia
Will all the Arabs leave North Africa and return to the Middle East too?
I never said they should they are not telling me to leave Britain unlike English elitists.
Original post by al_94
I never said they should they are not telling me to leave Britain unlike English elitists.
Oh well fair enough.
Original post by IBBOOM
Your too confused for me to bother now.
You should be ashamed of yourself especially if you're not "white" siding with English elitists against people of colour. You have the same mentality as them but they will never accept you as one of their own stop behaving like a slave.
Original post by Foo.mp3
More concerned? I’m not sure that would stop xenophobia, or necessarily be less divisive, although I agree that perhaps it should be approached differently..
It’s the later, and it can in the sense that we can put an end to mass immigration, if not the high birth rate among certain immigrant groups We can encourage people to return to lands to which they, their value systems/doctrines/'laws', are 'better suited' however
Yes
Yes. The reason inter-civilisational mixing has caused major friction throughout history is identity vs. the reason it has worked out over the very long term in the end, in some cases, is the evolution of identity
What attitude?
It’s not a solution, it’s la mode du jour in many advanced (enlightened/scientific/liberal) societies, ergo, a near inevitability
What I meant is Muslims becoming more moderate, and more concerned with worldly realities e.g. their fellow man (be he a kafir or not). In terms of the literal definition of secularism all this means is the Government not bending over to/for Islam, although I would go further than that personally
More concerned? I’m not sure that would stop xenophobia, or necessarily be less divisive, although I agree that perhaps it should be approached differently..
Spoiler
It’s the later, and it can in the sense that we can put an end to mass immigration, if not the high birth rate among certain immigrant groups
We can encourage people to return to lands to which they, their value systems/doctrines/'laws', are 'better suited' howeverYes
Yes. The reason inter-civilisational mixing has caused major friction throughout history is identity vs. the reason it has worked out over the very long term in the end, in some cases, is the evolution of identity
What attitude?
It’s not a solution, it’s la mode du jour in many advanced (enlightened/scientific/liberal) societies, ergo, a near inevitability
What I meant is Muslims becoming more moderate, and more concerned with worldly realities e.g. their fellow man (be he a kafir or not). In terms of the literal definition of secularism all this means is the Government not bending over to/for Islam, although I would go further than that personally
Thanks for the video!
I meant that it would make young people from minorities identify more with Britain. I've always learned French history at school and really liked some parts of it like Louis XIV but I never identified with it. The only time you heard about black people was for slavery and decolonisation. And you never hear about arab people. No wonder why some of them don't identify with being French.
I guess you're talking about Somalians in this case. And I do agree with you on this one. But it's not like we can send them back to Somalia since it's war torn and dangerous. We certainly need to find a balance between "their" values etc and that of white British people.
Lol so between minorities or between minorities and white people?
Well you can't blame certain people that feel that their children are losing their identity due to Westernisation.
Like complaining about how Western society privileges white people or how certain women can't wear the niqab (which is forbidden is France now).
I wouldn't say France is more advanced in these matters but Britain is. It recognises communities and communatrism at least.
But most Muslims are actually moderate.
Of course the gov should neutral about religion, neither bending for or being against a religion. The latter of which is happening for Islam in France and in Britain (but at lesser extent). It goes both ways. While England mixes the state and the Anglican church (is that it?), France is supposed to have seperated the Catholic church and the state since the late 19th century. But Christianity is still favorised?
Original post by ProudEnglishman
1) Which bits of what I said are “absolute conjecture” and why?
2) People do indeed travel; however, in the past people did not travel as much and nowhere near as freely. Saying that “something is wrong” with me if I do not wish to miscegenate is complete and utter nonsense! We are naturally attracted to our own kind. I have heard COUNTLESS English females say that, “I'm not racist, but I would never date a black man.” So unless if you intend on screaming “RACIST!” at each of these females, then you are quite simply incorrect in your assertion.
3) Speaking English does not make one English. You purport to be able to speak English better than I, and yet you refer to the English language as “British”. Wow. Thus I find it completely apt that you chose to use the adverb “ostensibly” for you have just demonstrated that you cannot speak English better than I whatsoever. Quod erat demonstrandum.
4) Do tell me what you have contributed to my people's culture, and I shall be the judge of whether it was a good or a bad contribution.
5) I could not care less whether you are going to or at university in this country. Your contribution to it, I assume, will be nothing different than the usual. And would you like a gold medal for paying tax just like everyone else has to? Not to mention that tax is not something I'd be “proud” of having to pay, given that the government has quite the habit of wasting it. So I'm sure you are, for example, glad to know that you are subsiding the mass-slaughter and continual displacement of the Palestinian people from their homeland by Israhell. Well done. A marvellous moral feat. Definitely something to be “proud” of.
6) I do not value egalitarianism any more than I do Christinsanity. And how arrogant are you to claim that Nature is “flawed”? What madman could say that the thing by which and within which we exist is “flawed”? Nature is absolutely opposed to egalitarianism because egalitarianism is completely unnatural. So I think you will find that it is egalitarianism that is “flawed”. O no! Lest we be called a “racist”! You are a fool if you think that such a word has any power over me. Shouting it hither and thither will achieve nought.
2) People do indeed travel; however, in the past people did not travel as much and nowhere near as freely. Saying that “something is wrong” with me if I do not wish to miscegenate is complete and utter nonsense! We are naturally attracted to our own kind. I have heard COUNTLESS English females say that, “I'm not racist, but I would never date a black man.” So unless if you intend on screaming “RACIST!” at each of these females, then you are quite simply incorrect in your assertion.
3) Speaking English does not make one English. You purport to be able to speak English better than I, and yet you refer to the English language as “British”. Wow. Thus I find it completely apt that you chose to use the adverb “ostensibly” for you have just demonstrated that you cannot speak English better than I whatsoever. Quod erat demonstrandum.
4) Do tell me what you have contributed to my people's culture, and I shall be the judge of whether it was a good or a bad contribution.
5) I could not care less whether you are going to or at university in this country. Your contribution to it, I assume, will be nothing different than the usual. And would you like a gold medal for paying tax just like everyone else has to? Not to mention that tax is not something I'd be “proud” of having to pay, given that the government has quite the habit of wasting it. So I'm sure you are, for example, glad to know that you are subsiding the mass-slaughter and continual displacement of the Palestinian people from their homeland by Israhell. Well done. A marvellous moral feat. Definitely something to be “proud” of.
6) I do not value egalitarianism any more than I do Christinsanity. And how arrogant are you to claim that Nature is “flawed”? What madman could say that the thing by which and within which we exist is “flawed”? Nature is absolutely opposed to egalitarianism because egalitarianism is completely unnatural. So I think you will find that it is egalitarianism that is “flawed”. O no! Lest we be called a “racist”! You are a fool if you think that such a word has any power over me. Shouting it hither and thither will achieve nought.
1. I can't take the time to go back, as have limited time - but you did make assumptions. But never mind that.
2. No, people are entitled to their preferences, of course. But if you found them attractive and said 'no, I'm not going to dilute the 'gene pool' then that would be weird. There's a big difference.
3. Fair enough, you speak English well, better than you initially did. But English is my first language, and I am culturally as British as anyone else.
4. I actually try to make this country a better place: I fundraise a lot for a lot of charitable organisations, work for a charity organisation, volunteer for the public sector, and training to be within the public sector in a capacity to save lives.
I'm not asking for a medal - I'm asking why you are willing to be 'racist' to good people, just because of the colour of their skin, or differentiation of there genes?
5. Society and Nature (complex animal behavior: human behavior is much much different) are completely separate.
Why is egalitarianism completely un-natural in society???? You don't think that all should be equal?
What made you be so bitter towards foreigners (and those who aren't totally English - so a hell of a lot of people, like myself) so much? You realise one of your children (if you have children, or will do), or their children's children, will end up with someone who isn't English. That is inevitable.
I don't see why you think globalisation as a bad thing. Why on earth would you care about genetic make-up?
If I'm not English, then what am I? You can't go isolating half of the country, telling them they belong nowhere, just because they don't have pure genes. That is ridiculous.
If you have a passport, you are a citizen. You are the same as anyone else.
(edited 9 years ago)
Reading this post has made me a very happy chap.
I have sometimes got insecure due to where I come from.
But after reading some of the stories here, next time I walk in the street, I will heep my head up with pride!!
I have sometimes got insecure due to where I come from.
But after reading some of the stories here, next time I walk in the street, I will heep my head up with pride!!
Original post by ProudEnglishman
My close friend is half-Italian. Which part of Italy are you from?
Which part of Italy are you from?You have friends from other parts of the world that live and were born here? Honestly wouldn't have expected. Cognitive dissonance much
Original post by queen-bee
I follow a similar culture(drinking,partying,how I dress etc)
Here's your problem.
Assimilation is key, enforcing cultural values and not appeasing minorities is really what is required to have ethnic groups accepted in a foreign land. The host nation's people will most certainly repel you if you act like an entitled antisocial warrior, not conforming to our rules.
You may see it as oppressive or controlling, but in the real world, community is everything, and when communities split down ideological lines, you end up with a strong division that potentially can lead to civil war.
Just start being a respectable Brit. i.e. not drinking excessively and partying hard.
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