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Deadly gun attack in Paris: Global reactions & discussion

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Original post by Lady Comstock
And yet when people use the term "gratuitous" in this context, they believe that they can assess the true intention of the person who caused the offence. The Muhammad cartoons were not produced without good reason in my view. It is clear that they were drawn to a) satirise a figure who is considered perfect and without flaw, for which many disagree with, and b) to protest censorship and violence used in course of promoting censorship.

I do not know what was going through the minds of the publishers, but the evidence points to it being for the reasons I mentioned, and not without good reason.
to a certain extent, the attack itself on Charlie Hebdo has proved the importance of publishing the cartoons

the attack has clarified the situation : persons, before being Muslims, Christians, Scientologists, Whateverists, are members of society (whether citizens or not) and they are bound to respect the law

outside the respect of the law, there is nothing but total confusion, anarchy and bloodshed, and the impossibility of peaceful coexistence

whoever does not recognise this, should think again, most likely in jail
Original post by 6Jesus6Christ6
All one needs to do is affirm their Will to find the Truth.
of course I am in favour of "Truth" and against "Falsehood"

am I making meaningful mental progress ?
Original post by elhm1800
So one can say or do whatever the hell they like because 'freedom of speech'?..

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within the limits of the law, yes
Original post by mariachi
within the limits of the law, yes


Its not against the law to be anti semitic yet it is highly distasteful and offensive to many....as is drawing religious figures in pornagraphic and offensive styles. But you're fine with anything as long as its not against the law of whatever country you live in?
Remember laws aren't the same everywhere.

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Original post by mariachi
of course I am in favour of "Truth" and against "Falsehood"

am I making meaningful mental progress ?


Is your will to find the Truth for yourself, or to tell others what the Truth is?
Original post by 6Jesus6Christ6
Is your will to find the Truth for yourself, or to tell others what the Truth is?
well, If I find the "Truth", it would be very selfish to keep it all for myself
Original post by elhm1800
Its not against the law to be anti semitic yet it is highly distasteful and offensive to many....as is drawing religious figures in pornagraphic and offensive styles. But you're fine with anything as long as its not against the law of whatever country you live in?
Remember laws aren't the same everywhere.
in any State, the importance of the law lies in the fact that it expresses a standard which is applied to everyone

everyone has his/her tastes/distastes, people are offended by the most diverse opinions, by drawings, music, films, books and whatever

for example, I am strongly offended by the Quran claiming that I, as an unbeliever, am among the "vilest of animals", just like the terrorists may have been offended by Charlie Hebdo's drawings

it is obvious that any society has to abide by some standards : and these are set by the law. The law forbids certain forms of "hate" speech, and it is up to the courts to determine the cases when the law is infringed

if everyone takes the law in his/her hands, society goes down into chaos
Original post by mariachi
well, If I find the "Truth", it would be very selfish to keep it all for myself


As you may have realised by now, it is nearly impossible to give the truth to someone who doesn't want it, or believes they already have it. Truth is a selfish endeavour, but selfishness is not necessarily evil. And in terms of productivity, if you want someone to get on your side regarding an issue or a debate, be nice about it. Treat your debating adversary with respect, and if they don't do the same, ask yourself why you care about the opinions of some random on the internet.
Original post by 6Jesus6Christ6
if you want someone to get on your side regarding an issue or a debate, be nice about it. .
you mean, like this ?

Original post by 6Jesus6Christ6
if you haven't grown out of atheism by the age of 20, don't expect to make any meaningful mental progress
. by the way, how is your meaningful mental progress progressing ?

tell us about it
Original post by mariachi
in any State, the importance of the law lies in the fact that it expresses a standard which is applied to everyone

everyone has his/her tastes/distastes, people are offended by the most diverse opinions, by drawings, music, films, books and whatever

for example, I am strongly offended by the Quran claiming that I, as an unbeliever, am among the "vilest of animals", just like the terrorists may have been offended by Charlie Hebdo's drawings

it is obvious that any society has to abide by some standards : and these are set by the law. The law forbids certain forms of "hate" speech, and it is up to the courts to determine the cases when the law is infringed

if everyone takes the law in his/her hands, society goes down into chaos


So you're saying as long as its within the law its a subjective issue whether somethings offensive? So when Charlie Hebdo depicted a black minister as a monkey which was published thats fine as it was deemed legal? I would be intrigued to see proof where the koran calls non muslims the 'vilest of animals'...sounds dubious.

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Original post by elhm1800
So you're saying as long as its within the law its a subjective issue whether somethings offensive? So when Charlie Hebdo depicted a black minister as a monkey which was published thats fine as it was deemed legal? I would be intrigued to see proof where the koran calls non muslims the 'vilest of animals'...sounds dubious.

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yes, people have very subjective views about what is tasteful and what is distasteful. As the Latins used to say, "quot capita, tot sententiae" (there are as many opinions as there are heads). Our common standard is set by the law. Here, we are not discussing what I may personally find tasteful or distasteful.

as to the Quran, why don't you read it ? it's a very interesting (even if sometimes offensive) book
Original post by mariachi
yes, people have very subjective views about what is tasteful and what is distasteful. As the Latins used to say, "quot capita, tot sententiae" (there are as many opinions as there are heads). Our common standard is set by the law. Here, we are not discussing what I may personally find tasteful or distasteful.

as to the Quran, why don't you read it ? it's a very interesting (even if sometimes offensive) book


I agree this is probs the wrong thread for this discussion:biggrin: My point was just sometimes laws aren't particularly the best standards...im sure in extreme parts of the world the laws in those states aren't model standards.
Im afraid my life has enough going on without something like the koran!

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Original post by mariachi
yes, people have very subjective views about what is tasteful and what is distasteful. As the Latins used to say, "quot capita, tot sententiae" (there are as many opinions as there are heads).


Another good one is De gustibus non est disputandum; I always thought it had a nice ring and it rolls off the tongue rather more easily

as to the Quran, why don't you read it ? it's a very interesting (even if sometimes offensive) book


Surat al Anfal 8:12 tells us Allah exhorted the angels to strike terror into the unbelievers and smote off their heads.
Original post by mariachi
you mean, like this ?


Yep

by the way, how is your meaningful mental progress progressing ?

tell us about it


Like I said it's all about the Will to find the Truth. One singular will, only to find the truth. Not to get a girlfriend, not to get to 10th prestige on COD, not to get a 1st in your degree, only to find the truth of life. Once this path has been taken then your intelligence starts to grow. You will be able to grasp concepts more quickly, realise manipulation more easily, since your perception will not be limited by false beliefs. Looking for (and finding) the truth is like starting anew.

Anyway, to each his own, if you don't want to find the truth then it's entirely up to you.

With regards to my progress, I can do literally anything I like on this earth, all it takes is the affirmation of a singular Will and the delayed gratification of other wills. Good luck to you.
Original post by elhm1800
I agree this is probs the wrong thread for this discussion:biggrin: My point was just sometimes laws aren't particularly the best standards...im sure in extreme parts of the world the laws in those states aren't model standards.
Im afraid my life has enough going on without something like the koran!

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there are of course also international rules - such as the UN declaration on human rights

as to the Quran and the vilest of animals, you could check verse 8:55
Original post by 6Jesus6Christ6
if you don't want to find the truth then it's entirely up to you
why should my truth be any worse than yours ?
Original post by mariachi
why should my truth be any worse than yours ?


Your beliefs are educational. They are largely the product of what you have been told, the way in which you have been brought up. Until one affirms their will to find the ultimate truth, they are simply part of the system, at the mercy of the "law of accident", that is to say there is no true free will, they are robots, input [compute] output. Are you a robot?


[compute]


No.

There are some in life who will stay robots until they die. Others have the chance to wake up from the dream, to become intellectually and instinctively lucid, but only if they look for the truth. Are you as lucid as you can be? Am I? No.

Good luck.
Original post by 6Jesus6Christ6
Your beliefs are educational. They are largely the product of what you have been told, the way in which you have been brought up.
you have no idea whatsoever about my beliefs and how I reached them, nor about my cultural and educational background, nor about my personal history

you should face it : you are just writing whatever crosses your mind

not good
Original post by mariachi
you have no idea whatsoever about my beliefs and how I reached them, nor about my cultural and educational background, nor about my personal history

you should face it : you are just writing whatever crosses your mind

not good


It doesn't take a genius to realise there's no such thing as a judgmental man in the sky. Are you as lucid as you could be?
Original post by elhm1800
So you're saying as long as its within the law its a subjective issue whether somethings offensive?

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Whether something is offensive is always a subjective matter, the person taking offence being the judge.

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