'Women don't owe men anything'. But do men owe women anything?

Stopped reading at: I have 2 complaints tonight.

again, shaming tactics without even reading the content. This one in particular leads back to 'man up' (men to maintain frame, do not confide problems)

OK.
You cant blame me for not reading your posts when youre going to become an Anti...just because of some things you read on the internet.

I repeat, not just online, observed social behaviours.

The way you see things is biased by the things you have read online.
Sort out your own emotional problems before commenting on those of wider society.

Obviously not. Aside from the basic "not being a mug", no one owes anyone anything.

Dumb question.

The way you see things is biased by the things you have read online.
Sort out your own emotional problems before commenting on those of wider society.

I don't feel I see this attitude IRL.

Spot on.

I have 2 complaints tonight:

Firstly yes men are not owed sex by women [see Robert Glover 'Nice Guy' complex] I agree with this.

HOWEVER why do a lot of women feel they are owed something by men? In particular I notice that the current generation blames the men of this generation for the ****-ups and abuses of our misogynist forefathers. This is the logic behind 'check your privilege' which prevents men's rights being discussed. I should note not all MRA discussions are valid, but there are plenty which are.

Secondly, can we please quit it with the 'omg you must be a turbo-virgin' response. This is a feminist shaming tactic to silence men especially MRAs. The problem is not only that it is an ad hom, but it inadvertently reinforces the slut/stud double standard by putting men obtaining sex on a pedestal, calling virgins 'losers' and so forth. Why is loss of virginity in a man a sign of superiority to those who have not, yet women who either have many sexual partners, or choose to remain celibate, are treated equally? Surely we should work to deconstruct both so that women can sleep around and men can remain virgins without society invalidating their worth?

I am tiring of participating heavily in these debates but I can tell you that in the past 2 years I have been on TSR and the Internet I have become disillusioned to Feminism in the UK. A movement which I fully supported turns out to have contributed to various problems in my life including the way my dad was treated in the divorce. I have spoken multiple times on the problem of 'man up' and a Facebook friend part of the Fem-Soc of my former uni slated a man discussing the problems he faced in society as a man (not once did he bash women or feminism, only his criticism of society).

I only asked that both genders would be allowed to emancipate themselves from a repressive hetero-normative culture, yet the situation is one-sided. We were promised change even in the 90s, and things are only getting worse.

So last night I swallowed the Red Pill (not the abuse part, I could never do that, but the issues of men's rights and reinforcement of 'hetero-normative' culture to work against men certainly.) The fact is there is some fabulous material on there regarding self-improvement and it explains various imposed social and cultural norms, how to use these to your advantage. I am well aware of multiple personality defects I have which make me unattractive and yes this is my responsibility to amend. The reason I'm entrenched in it after all is just a bi-product of severe blatantly obvious social anxiety.

Still the issues it raises are enlightening and harrowing.

Day One TSR.

If someone can direct me to some sources on what feminism is doing in the UK and USA to make society more equal without ****ting on men then be my guest, but my mind is currently made up. I will continue to support the issues worth addressing such as the need for feminism in the Middle East and Asia, as far as I can see the West is now ruled by the pursuit of money, power and sex.

That's western feminazi for you my friend. Double standards.
I 100% agree with you. Feminism is still very needed, maybe even in western countries-when it comes to working- women still are sometimes paid and treated badly at work in western countries -but lately it became an excuse for women who feel insecure to bitch out at men. How ladylike. Charming, eh?

I agree with you (as a woman)! Men and woman don't owe each other anything apart from a mutual respect I think that feminism is a largely misunderstood movement, and there have been times when I've actually questioned whether I should be a feminist! To me, feminism is a progression to women feeling safe in society and men and woman being equal, which is why Emma Watson reiterates that men are needed in her campaign.

I completely disagree with 'virgin shaming' as much as I agree with 'slut shaming'. People who do this are clearly insecure in their personal identities so feel the need to chastise others to make themselves feel better.

There are women out there who twist what feminism is and make it out to be a movement against men, which it isn't; these misadrists are fake feminists. However, you can't live your life without coming across a few vindictive women. Just the same as you come across leering, cat-calling men.

#HeForShe by Emma Watson is a good example of what feminism truly is.

Oh, and "the West is now ruled by the pursuit of money, power and sex"? It always has been.

by this logic, anyone with e.g. depression, should not be allowed to comment on current affairs. This is blatant discrimination