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LGBT school could open in Manchester
A school for LGBT pupils is planned for Manchester.
"This is about saving lives,” said Amelia Lee, strategic director for LGBT Youth North West, the youth work charity behind the plans. “Despite the laws that claim to protect gay people from homophobic bullying, the truth is that in schools especially, bullying is still incredibly common and causes young people to feel isolated and alienated, which often leads to truanting and, in the worst-case scenarios, to suicide.”
"The school will be specifically designed for LGBT young people who are struggling in mainstream schools, but will be open to other children, including young carers, young parents and those with mental health problems. “It will be LGBT-inclusive, but not exclusive,” said Lee."
Is segregating pupils the right solution, or should we be focusing attention on eliminating homophobia from mainstream schools?
"This is about saving lives,” said Amelia Lee, strategic director for LGBT Youth North West, the youth work charity behind the plans. “Despite the laws that claim to protect gay people from homophobic bullying, the truth is that in schools especially, bullying is still incredibly common and causes young people to feel isolated and alienated, which often leads to truanting and, in the worst-case scenarios, to suicide.”
"The school will be specifically designed for LGBT young people who are struggling in mainstream schools, but will be open to other children, including young carers, young parents and those with mental health problems. “It will be LGBT-inclusive, but not exclusive,” said Lee."
Is segregating pupils the right solution, or should we be focusing attention on eliminating homophobia from mainstream schools?
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I'm not sure about this, on one hand, nobody is doing anything about the bullying, on the other, students will grow up in that place thinking it will always be La Vie En Rose when it comes to their homosexuality, transexuality etc. This school would work great if and only if the ratio of straight:lgbt is the same as the ratio in the real world (we're like 5%? i don't really know tbh) and at the same time have rainbows everywhere, lgbt posters everywhere, not many schools have those. BTW is it a private school?
I'm on the fence too; everybody should feel safe and secure in who they are at school, but unless they are having lessons on how to handle abuse, they will handle it worse once they leave. I'm also unsure as to the cost, and why it needs to be an LGBT school when one for mental health in general is so badly needed. I wouldn't be against it though, better than them being bullied.
And the young boys would get an early taste of the promiscuity culture in the gay world....
A year at the school, which will be funded by the government, will cost £16,000, the same as other specialist schools. But Lee claims that the charity is saving other council services about £1.3m through early intervention and support for struggling children.
And the young boys would get an early taste of the promiscuity culture in the gay world....
Original post by gagafacea1
I'm not sure about this, on one hand, nobody is doing anything about the bullying, on the other, students will grow up in that place thinking it will always be La Vie En Rose when it comes to their homosexuality, transexuality etc. This school would work great if and only if the ratio of straight:lgbt is the same as the ratio in the real world (we're like 5%? i don't really know tbh) and at the same time have rainbows everywhere, lgbt posters everywhere, not many schools have those. BTW is it a private school?
A year at the school, which will be funded by the government, will cost £16,000, the same as other specialist schools. But Lee claims that the charity is saving other council services about £1.3m through early intervention and support for struggling children.
I don't understand it really. The big push at the moment with education is inclusion yet this is segregation which is basically the complete opposite. This is not the answer and neither were the special needs schools set up years ago. Thankfully, SEN children are now included and attend the same schools as those who are not SEN. If anything, I can just see this leading to more problems. My old school was in close proximity to a private school and the private school children got tormented to hell and back because they were segregated and people in my school had warped perceptions of them. What you're going to get is state school children thinking they're outcasts or different and thats why they go to another special school and this will just lead to more bullying and attacks on the way home. The answer is inclusion, not exclusion.
Original post by samba
I wouldn't be against it though, better than them being bullied.
They will just be deemed outcasts for attending a 'special' school and will be victimised on the way to school and on the way home from school. This won't solve a thing. All it will do is push more of it outside of the school gates and make it harder to monitor.
Original post by samba
A year at the school, which will be funded by the government, will cost £16,000, the same as other specialist schools. But Lee claims that the charity is saving other council services about £1.3m through early intervention and support for struggling children.
A year at the school, which will be funded by the government, will cost £16,000, the same as other specialist schools. But Lee claims that the charity is saving other council services about £1.3m through early intervention and support for struggling children.
Okay so lgbt people with poorer backgrounds can go to that school?
I support this in conjunction with pro-LGBT campaigning in "mainstream" schools. I guess this is segregation but you know what? Queer kids deserve a safe space where they can interact with people like them without constant homophobia and micro aggressions. It's not the responsibility of Queer kids to combat homophobia. God, I would have loved to go to an LGBT school.
Original post by Das Auto
They will just be deemed outcasts for attending a 'special' school and will be victimised on the way to school and on the way home from school. This won't solve a thing. All it will do is push more of it outside of the school gates and make it harder to monitor.
I think I have to agree with you on this, plus they'll be much weaker and less prepared to handle the real world which is 95% homophobic.
Original post by gagafacea1
Okay so lgbt people with poorer backgrounds can go to that school?
Yep, it's government funded.
Original post by Das Auto
They will just be deemed outcasts for attending a 'special' school and will be victimised on the way to school and on the way home from school. This won't solve a thing. All it will do is push more of it outside of the school gates and make it harder to monitor.
It will allow them to make friends with, and deal with strategies for that **** one would hope.
It'll probably just end up with a load of little 'bi' girls going because their parents want more attention from teachers for better grades anyway.
Original post by Niassuh
I support this in conjunction with pro-LGBT campaigning in "mainstream" schools. I guess this is segregation but you know what? Queer kids deserve a safe space where they can interact with people like them without constant homophobia and micro aggressions. It's not the responsibility of Queer kids to combat homophobia. God, I would have loved to go to an LGBT school.
I think I agree with this. Providing a safe space for students whilst tackling the issue of homophobia in mainstream schools is good.
Segregating LGBT students and not doing anything about homophobia in mainstream schools I think might make the situation worse.
Original post by Puddles the Monkey
I think I agree with this. Providing a safe space for students whilst tackling the issue of homophobia in mainstream schools is good.
Segregating LGBT students and not doing anything about homophobia in mainstream schools I think might make the situation worse.
Segregating LGBT students and not doing anything about homophobia in mainstream schools I think might make the situation worse.
Thanks for agreeing with me! :3
Why is everyone acting like we'll have to cart every queer kid off to LGBT schools? It's a bit like Islamic schools (not really an apt analogy, sorry). Queer kids can go there but there will always be others who choose to stay in mainstream schools, maybe because it's more convenient.
Also just because someone goes to an LGBT school doesn't mean they'll be completely isolated from homophobia. Society is still homophobic as all **** and they'll see that everywhere, TV, the News, in public...like...being against LGBT schools because homophobic bullying in schools "toughens up" queer kids is mighty disgusting...
I don't think segregation is a good way to solve the issues. I think the time, effort and money (? not sure how money works with setting up a school) involved could be better spent at tackling homophobia in mainstream schools.
I can certainly understand the reasoning behind it, and I await bigoted responses from rabid homophobes. But if anything, segregation makes it worse - straight people mixing with gay people can help destroy the stereotypes around it and make them realise that gay people are people just like them, with the only real difference being sexuality.
I can certainly understand the reasoning behind it, and I await bigoted responses from rabid homophobes. But if anything, segregation makes it worse - straight people mixing with gay people can help destroy the stereotypes around it and make them realise that gay people are people just like them, with the only real difference being sexuality.
Original post by Niassuh
Why is everyone acting like we'll have to cart every queer kid off to LGBT schools? It's a bit like Islamic schools (not really an apt analogy, sorry). Queer kids can go there but there will always be others who choose to stay in mainstream schools, maybe because it's more convenient.
Actually I was going to make that analogy, but I think for different reasons.
See my post above to see what I said about segregation, and then it might make sense.
If you have an Islamic school with 100% Muslim pupils, they are less likely to mix with other religions very often. This does not reflect real life, and as a result they may even end up with some pretty intolerant beliefs about people from other religions and the non religious (note that I'm not trying to generalise about Muslims or Islamic schools).
If you have a mixed school, it reflects real life more accurately and those pupils learn about each other, rather than believing stereotypes or religious dogma about them which may end up happening if you segregate them.
(edited 9 years ago)
Tbh this is like the most obvious way to single them out. And all of their future employers will automatically know that they are queer.
Original post by RFowler
Actually I was going to make that analogy, but I think for different reasons.
See my post above to see what I said about segregation, and then it might make sense.
If you have an Islamic school with 100% Muslim pupils, they are less likely to mix with other religions very often. This does not reflect real life, and as a result they may even end up with some pretty intolerant beliefs about people from other religions and the non religious (note that I'm not trying to generalise about Muslims or Islamic schools).
If you have a mixed school, it reflects real life more accurately and those pupils learn about each other, rather than believing stereotypes or religious dogma about them which may end up happening if you segregate them.
See my post above to see what I said about segregation, and then it might make sense.
If you have an Islamic school with 100% Muslim pupils, they are less likely to mix with other religions very often. This does not reflect real life, and as a result they may even end up with some pretty intolerant beliefs about people from other religions and the non religious (note that I'm not trying to generalise about Muslims or Islamic schools).
If you have a mixed school, it reflects real life more accurately and those pupils learn about each other, rather than believing stereotypes or religious dogma about them which may end up happening if you segregate them.
So you're saying LGBT schools might make some queer kids hate cishet kids?
Well, a lot of LGBT people hate cishets. Can you really blame them? I couldn't blame a transgender teen that's been kicked out of her home if she tells me she hates cis people. Trans people are not able to oppress cis people on an institutional basis so her saying she hates cis people is just impotent anger and frustration at her treatment.
Unless you're saying that cishet people will become more intolerant of LGBT people?
Given current homophobia, lots of LGBT kids are scared as **** of coming out. If they're not even out how does them being in a mainstream school facilitate progress? It just results in an undercover queer kid that has to listen to slurs like "faggot" all the time and their friends have no idea they're queer. You get me?
Some people don't even know they're LGBT until they're in year 10 or even beyond... I don't like this idea
I don't think you can stamp out bigotry this way
Otherwise, let's segregate ourselves based on race as well...
My opinion is that the more you interact with people from different walks of life, the more you get to understand them
I think this is going in the wrong direction
I don't think you can stamp out bigotry this way
Otherwise, let's segregate ourselves based on race as well...
My opinion is that the more you interact with people from different walks of life, the more you get to understand them
I think this is going in the wrong direction
Okay, it's a nice idea in theory, but there are several glaring problems with the concept.
Most kids don't even know that they're LGBT until their teens at the earliest. I wasn't comfortable identifying as bisexual until I was halfway through my last year at school, and didn't even tell my closest friends until the end of the last day. Not to mention that going to this school would mean that the kids needed to come out to their parents, something I'm still not comfortable with despite having a girlfriend for over six months. Children can risk their parents reacting with disbelief ("it's just a phase", "you're too young to know", "you would have known a long time ago", "I think I would know if my own child was gay", etc), anger ("no son of mine is ____") or even disowning their child. Failing that, there's the risk of parents being abusive in other ways - just look at what happened to Leelah Alcorn. The vast majority of LGBT kids don't want to be singled out - they want to be treated equally, not differently. They really don't want their identity to be a big deal, any more than they want their eye colour to be a big deal.
Also, there's the question of where to draw the line. It could be taken as literally only lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender - but what about people who identify as pansexual? It's very similar to bisexuality but is largely ignored by the cisgender heterosexual majority. I'm assuming non-binary identities would be included as a subset of transgender, but what about asexuals? Some people say that asexuals "don't count". Then there are the people who identify as a different species (what?) or tell everyone "hi i am a dragonkin and i eat diamonds despite the fact that my digestive system can't process them because i am special oh did i mention i'm a dragon", and demand to be included in LGBT spaces and discussions. Also, there's the whole difference between sexual and romantic attraction, which I could go on about for pages. I won't, but in short, it complicates things.
That brings me nicely to my final, and probably most important, point. The people who came up with the idea for this school seem to think that it will solve the problem of bullying that LGBT children face because of their identity. Well, newsflash - there is bullying within the LGBT community. Take bisexuals, for instance. We're spurned by monosexuals (people only attracted to one gender), either by gay men and lesbians for "not being gay enough" and "just wanting to be special", or by straight people for being "untrustworthy" and "more likely to cheat". This even applies if we've been in a relationship with only one person, ever. People of all orientations are constantly telling us, "bisexuality doesn't exist so u r pansexual yes that is what u r". Even pansexuals, who you'd think might understand us a little, are always looking down on us from their high horse yelling, "BI MEANS TWO SO YOU'RE ALL BINARIST!!!!111!1!!!111!11!one", despite the fact that bisexuality is defined as attraction to two or more genders. And that's just one group out of all the other minorities.
It's a nice idea from a straight person's point of view, but this new school really won't help things.
Most kids don't even know that they're LGBT until their teens at the earliest. I wasn't comfortable identifying as bisexual until I was halfway through my last year at school, and didn't even tell my closest friends until the end of the last day. Not to mention that going to this school would mean that the kids needed to come out to their parents, something I'm still not comfortable with despite having a girlfriend for over six months. Children can risk their parents reacting with disbelief ("it's just a phase", "you're too young to know", "you would have known a long time ago", "I think I would know if my own child was gay", etc), anger ("no son of mine is ____") or even disowning their child. Failing that, there's the risk of parents being abusive in other ways - just look at what happened to Leelah Alcorn. The vast majority of LGBT kids don't want to be singled out - they want to be treated equally, not differently. They really don't want their identity to be a big deal, any more than they want their eye colour to be a big deal.
Also, there's the question of where to draw the line. It could be taken as literally only lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender - but what about people who identify as pansexual? It's very similar to bisexuality but is largely ignored by the cisgender heterosexual majority. I'm assuming non-binary identities would be included as a subset of transgender, but what about asexuals? Some people say that asexuals "don't count". Then there are the people who identify as a different species (what?) or tell everyone "hi i am a dragonkin and i eat diamonds despite the fact that my digestive system can't process them because i am special oh did i mention i'm a dragon", and demand to be included in LGBT spaces and discussions. Also, there's the whole difference between sexual and romantic attraction, which I could go on about for pages. I won't, but in short, it complicates things.
That brings me nicely to my final, and probably most important, point. The people who came up with the idea for this school seem to think that it will solve the problem of bullying that LGBT children face because of their identity. Well, newsflash - there is bullying within the LGBT community. Take bisexuals, for instance. We're spurned by monosexuals (people only attracted to one gender), either by gay men and lesbians for "not being gay enough" and "just wanting to be special", or by straight people for being "untrustworthy" and "more likely to cheat". This even applies if we've been in a relationship with only one person, ever. People of all orientations are constantly telling us, "bisexuality doesn't exist so u r pansexual yes that is what u r". Even pansexuals, who you'd think might understand us a little, are always looking down on us from their high horse yelling, "BI MEANS TWO SO YOU'RE ALL BINARIST!!!!111!1!!!111!11!one", despite the fact that bisexuality is defined as attraction to two or more genders. And that's just one group out of all the other minorities.
It's a nice idea from a straight person's point of view, but this new school really won't help things.
(edited 9 years ago)
Bullying is all part and parcel of going to school. If you look different you're gonna get bullyed, act different then you're gonna get bullied. It's a fact of life. It tougthens you up and makes you a stronger person when you find the guts to stand uptoyour bully, not run away and build another school.
Original post by samba
And the young boys would get an early taste of the promiscuity culture in the gay world....
And the young boys would get an early taste of the promiscuity culture in the gay world....
Original post by samba
It'll probably just end up with a load of little 'bi' girls going because their parents want more attention from teachers for better grades anyway.
You're not LGBT, are you?
Original post by supertroopermark
Bullying is all part and parcel of going to school. If you look different you're gonna get bullyed, act different then you're gonna get bullied. It's a fact of life. It tougthens you up and makes you a stronger person when you find the guts to stand uptoyour bully, not run away and build another school.
Sounds like you're not either.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Niassuh
Thanks for agreeing with me! :3
Why is everyone acting like we'll have to cart every queer kid off to LGBT schools? It's a bit like Islamic schools (not really an apt analogy, sorry). Queer kids can go there but there will always be others who choose to stay in mainstream schools, maybe because it's more convenient.
Also just because someone goes to an LGBT school doesn't mean they'll be completely isolated from homophobia. Society is still homophobic as all **** and they'll see that everywhere, TV, the News, in public...like...being against LGBT schools because homophobic bullying in schools "toughens up" queer kids is mighty disgusting...
Why is everyone acting like we'll have to cart every queer kid off to LGBT schools? It's a bit like Islamic schools (not really an apt analogy, sorry). Queer kids can go there but there will always be others who choose to stay in mainstream schools, maybe because it's more convenient.
Also just because someone goes to an LGBT school doesn't mean they'll be completely isolated from homophobia. Society is still homophobic as all **** and they'll see that everywhere, TV, the News, in public...like...being against LGBT schools because homophobic bullying in schools "toughens up" queer kids is mighty disgusting...
Agreed! Making Queer people go to LGBT school would only make everything much worse and i feel like the fight with homophobia would be lost instantly. Because if as a society we will separate ourselves LGBT people from straight it will highlight and kind of expose the difference. Also what about people that are gay but hasn't come out yet? or are not sure of their sexuality yet? imagine a situation when half-way through the school year someone comes out as gay or, worse, someone finds out about someone elses sexuality ant tells that gay person to 'GO TO SCHOOL FOR PEOPLE LIKE YOU'. So no, I don't think it is right at all! It just wouldn't work, it's part of our lives and we should get segregates because it's just wrong.
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