Sandwhich year worth it or not ?
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Original post by cnova
Meh. Yes they can apply for them however the higher paying ones are really competitive and therefore the experience is invaluable.
I'm not saying people who aren't or haven't done a YINI can't get the higher paying placements, what I am saying is though is that if two people have a 2:1 and a relatively similar background then they will take the one with a years worth of experience under their belt already.
I'm not saying people who aren't or haven't done a YINI can't get the higher paying placements, what I am saying is though is that if two people have a 2:1 and a relatively similar background then they will take the one with a years worth of experience under their belt already.
It's not as simple as that because not all experience is the same. Relevant experience obviously helps a lot but in reality lots of students don't know what area(s) they want to go into when they're applying for their placements, and if they find that the area of their placement is not the area where they want to pursue a career in, they're not going to find themselves being treated as a candidate with a year's experience in the area(s) they do want to go into.
Gaining experience - any experience - whilst simultaneously completing your degree is obviously a good idea, but I think taking a whole year out and delaying your graduation by a year takes more consideration. I haven't personally seen much if any evidence of companies favouring a whole year long placement over shorter summer placements when it comes to graduate positions.
Original post by Smack
Not at all. Companies have a set graduate salary such that everyone who joins as a graduate will be on the same salary regardless of any previous experience.
Not necessarily; I know of at least one large engineering company which pays graduates with placement year experience a higher salary than those without.
One thing which I don't think has been mentioned is that doing a placement year may help you fund your way through the rest of university. As Smack says, top undergraduate salaries can be as much as £20k, which provides a lot of opportunity to save save save! In addition to this, if you suitably impress the company you work for and they offer you a graduate job, they may even sponsor you through the rest of your degree.
Original post by cnova
I'm not saying people who aren't or haven't done a YINI can't get the higher paying placements, what I am saying is though is that if two people have a 2:1 and a relatively similar background then they will take the one with a years worth of experience under their belt already.
I'm not saying people who aren't or haven't done a YINI can't get the higher paying placements, what I am saying is though is that if two people have a 2:1 and a relatively similar background then they will take the one with a years worth of experience under their belt already.
Yes, the one with the year's relevant experience in a placement year might be more employable, but I don't think you are making a fair comparison, we want to compare the prospects of 2 candidates from the same cohort, one opting to just take summer placements and one opting to take a year out in industry.
The one with a placement year will be competing with the cohort that started a year after he started, and is hence more competitive than them, the people from his/her cohort will have one year's graduate experience (or at least vast majority of them will) and will be much more competitive than him for higher paying EE roles.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by AeroM
Not necessarily; I know of at least one large engineering company which pays graduates with placement year experience a higher salary than those without.
One thing which I don't think has been mentioned is that doing a placement year may help you fund your way through the rest of university. As Smack says, top undergraduate salaries can be as much as £20k, which provides a lot of opportunity to save save save! In addition to this, if you suitably impress the company you work for and they offer you a graduate job, they may even sponsor you through the rest of your degree.
One thing which I don't think has been mentioned is that doing a placement year may help you fund your way through the rest of university. As Smack says, top undergraduate salaries can be as much as £20k, which provides a lot of opportunity to save save save! In addition to this, if you suitably impress the company you work for and they offer you a graduate job, they may even sponsor you through the rest of your degree.
Is that company's policy the norm or is it an exception?
How much more does the company pay graduates who had YINI placements?
If it pays the graduates around £5K more (which I doubt) for the two years they are on graduate status then they will have offset the £10K or so loss in income that came about from taking a year out.
Also, don't forget that if you take a placement year you will have essentially traded a graduate year for a placement year so you will always lag by one year of graduate experience i.e 8 years after starting you BEng you will have 4 years graduate experience whilst other engineers from your cohort will have 5 years graduate experience.
Original post by Smack
Virtually all engineering degrees report strong employability statistics, with very low amounts of graduates still unemployed after six months. Whilst it is competitive, it's not so competitive that one needs a whole year of experience to secure a graduate position.
While I agree with what you've said to a certain extent i would say if you want to get a really good engineering job at a fairly well known company brand i.e. Atkins, BP, Shell, Exxon, Mclaren etc. then a year in industry is almost a definite must have and definitely makes a huge difference on your success rate.
Original post by History98
Is that company's policy the norm or is it an exception?
How much more does the company pay graduates who had YINI placements?
If it pays the graduates around £5K more (which I doubt) for the two years they are on graduate status then they will have offset the £10K or so loss in income that came about from taking a year out.
Also, don't forget that if you take a placement year you will have essentially traded a graduate year for a placement year so you will always lag by one year of graduate experience i.e 8 years after starting you BEng you will have 4 years graduate experience whilst other engineers from your cohort will have 5 years graduate experience.
How much more does the company pay graduates who had YINI placements?
If it pays the graduates around £5K more (which I doubt) for the two years they are on graduate status then they will have offset the £10K or so loss in income that came about from taking a year out.
Also, don't forget that if you take a placement year you will have essentially traded a graduate year for a placement year so you will always lag by one year of graduate experience i.e 8 years after starting you BEng you will have 4 years graduate experience whilst other engineers from your cohort will have 5 years graduate experience.
I don't know whether or not it's an exception (I'd be surprised if it was the only one, though!) - I was just trying to point out that graduate salaries are by no means fixed for everyone.
With regards to loss of income, engineering graduate salaries vary so much (£22k-£42k based on a quick look on TARGETJobs) that it is difficult to say whether you are in a better or worse position if you do a placement year; it's entirely dependent on who you can get a job with after you graduate. Surely even where you live will also affect just how much money you actually get to "enjoy", too?
In the long term, whether or not you do a placement year is unlikely to affect your total career earnings. Who knows where you might end up or what senior position you'll hold!
Original post by a10
While I agree with what you've said to a certain extent i would say if you want to get a really good engineering job at a fairly well known company brand i.e. Atkins, BP, Shell, Exxon, Mclaren etc. then a year in industry is almost a definite must have and definitely makes a huge difference on your success rate.
I have been to final stage interviews with and know people from my course who got offered jobs with some of the above firms without a year in industry. I know you said "almost" but I don't even think it's that; I think it's much of muchness between a year in industry and summer placements providing you're a good candidate.
Original post by AeroM
I don't know whether or not it's an exception (I'd be surprised if it was the only one, though!) - I was just trying to point out that graduate salaries are by no means fixed for everyone.
In the vast majority of cases they likely are fixed for new entrants. Does the firm you previously referred to offer a higher salary for someone who has completed a year in industry compared to someone without, for the same position and same location?
Original post by Smack
I have been to final stage interviews with and know people from my course who got offered jobs with some of the above firms without a year in industry. I know you said "almost" but I don't even think it's that; I think it's much of muchness between a year in industry and summer placements providing you're a good candidate.
Fair enough, I'm only basing this from what I've seen very recently on gradcracker and jobs being advertised by the above firms all say previous experience is very much desirable and having visited their website turns out a lot of the graduates who end up at the said companies either did a year in industry with them or in something related. I've found this to be certainly true particulalry for the energy and automotive well known brand companies.
Original post by Smack
Virtually all engineering degrees report strong employability statistics, with very low amounts of graduates still unemployed after six months. Whilst it is competitive, it's not so competitive that one needs a whole year of experience to secure a graduate position.
I was unemployed for over a year, so were two other friends. Other people I know doing masters. All of us were 2:1's from a decent uni too.
How do the universities know whether someone gets employed or not? I'd like to hear that before making assumptions about how the statistics should be judged.
The engineering market is saturated. More and more people are doing engineering and every job has a whole array of graduates applying to it. Let me tell you the final thing. Experience is definitely required. You're probably right that between a placement and a year it doesn't make a huge difference, but without experience, it felt to me like they wouldn't give a ****.
Some of the feedback is hilarious too. Try applying to IBM. You go to an assessment center, get zero feedback unless you get through to second stage, even though the first stage entails having two group exercises. I've also had companies where I've failed a test and then get an email saying "hold on, we may actually want you afterall". Positive discrimination to fill dem quota's. Its outrageous. I'm just glad I'm out of the war zone for now.
Original post by Smack
In the vast majority of cases they likely are fixed for new entrants. Does the firm you previously referred to offer a higher salary for someone who has completed a year in industry compared to someone without, for the same position and same location?
In the vast majority of cases they likely are fixed for new entrants. Does the firm you previously referred to offer a higher salary for someone who has completed a year in industry compared to someone without, for the same position and same location?
For the graduate scheme, yes. Whether you join with a BEng or MEng influences the salary, too, but I would imagine that's not uncommon?
Original post by djpailo
I was unemployed for over a year, so were two other friends. Other people I know doing masters. All of us were 2:1's from a decent uni too.
That's unfortunate and I'm not trying to belittle you, but the statistics (namely the Destination of Leavers of Higher Education survey) repeatedly show that engineering degrees offer excellent job prospects. Not 100% of course, but very favourable relative to other fields.
Original post by AeroM
For the graduate scheme, yes. Whether you join with a BEng or MEng influences the salary, too, but I would imagine that's not uncommon?
No, that's not uncommon but it is quite uncommon to offer different salaries those who have complete a year in industry placement compared to those who have not, unless the placement was with the same company and it is a loyalty payment.
Original post by datpiff
Which course and uni?
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Original post by realunited
Haha im not sure whether your joking or not...
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Original post by realunited
It's a joke lol Didn't think people would take me seriously
Sorry.
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Original post by datpiff
lol.... cheeky ....
Original post by Smack
That's unfortunate and I'm not trying to belittle you, but the statistics (namely the Destination of Leavers of Higher Education survey) repeatedly show that engineering degrees offer excellent job prospects. Not 100% of course, but very favourable relative to other fields.
.
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Hey, first of all, I appreciate you weren't belittling anyone, so don't worry, I was more questioning the statistics. I don't trust these surveys mainly because at my university at least, the surveys always had so-so response rates (I don't know the correct term).
In my opinion doing a year in industry is a no-brainer. It's a year's paid experience in a role similar to one you're looking to spend potentially the rest of your working life in. On top of that, it makes it easier to secure a desirable graduate job after university, because compared to peers without that experience you're highly desirable.
Different possible scenarios:
-You do a placement year and you hate it - great, you now know not to go work in that role, and have potentially saved yourself years of grief in a job you hate. On top of that, you still have paid experience working full-time in a professional role which looks fantastic on you CV.
-You do a placement and decide you love that role and want to continue with the company or a similar one upon graduation. - Great, you now will likely work straight after graduation, without having to spend months or longer competing for jobs. Although people will argue that in this scenario, you'd have been better off joining the company after graduation without a placement, because you earn a little bit more as a graduate student, I would argue that the opportunity to apply for better paid roles because of your experience, and the chance of being funded through your last year balances that out, and you'll also be likely to progress quickly ahead of the graduates who join the company without having done a placement, because of your extra experience. Plus, if you stick with the company, not only do many sponsor your last year, but many will also pay you a higher starting salary than graduates who haven't got experience with them.
-You opt for a placement year and get rejected/don't like the placements you're offered - Now you just do the normal course, but with the advantage over your appears of experience of the graduate recruitment process, and the skills gained from the placement skills sessions run by universities. You'll likely have put a strong professional CV together years before your peers, and are less likely to miss the boat when applying for positions the second time around.
The argument that you risk earning a little less money although valid, is I think minimal compared to the benefits of doing a placement year. I'd also point out that placements in the UK tend to be very competitively paid - city of London banking placements, e.g. Nomura, JP Morgan, pay around the £35k level, whilst placements in auditing firms, engineering firms tend to be around £17k-£21k. The offset between a placement year and the first year of a graduate is minimal when you consider you give yourself a strong chance of getting a better graduate job than you otherwise could.
Different possible scenarios:
-You do a placement year and you hate it - great, you now know not to go work in that role, and have potentially saved yourself years of grief in a job you hate. On top of that, you still have paid experience working full-time in a professional role which looks fantastic on you CV.
-You do a placement and decide you love that role and want to continue with the company or a similar one upon graduation. - Great, you now will likely work straight after graduation, without having to spend months or longer competing for jobs. Although people will argue that in this scenario, you'd have been better off joining the company after graduation without a placement, because you earn a little bit more as a graduate student, I would argue that the opportunity to apply for better paid roles because of your experience, and the chance of being funded through your last year balances that out, and you'll also be likely to progress quickly ahead of the graduates who join the company without having done a placement, because of your extra experience. Plus, if you stick with the company, not only do many sponsor your last year, but many will also pay you a higher starting salary than graduates who haven't got experience with them.
-You opt for a placement year and get rejected/don't like the placements you're offered - Now you just do the normal course, but with the advantage over your appears of experience of the graduate recruitment process, and the skills gained from the placement skills sessions run by universities. You'll likely have put a strong professional CV together years before your peers, and are less likely to miss the boat when applying for positions the second time around.
The argument that you risk earning a little less money although valid, is I think minimal compared to the benefits of doing a placement year. I'd also point out that placements in the UK tend to be very competitively paid - city of London banking placements, e.g. Nomura, JP Morgan, pay around the £35k level, whilst placements in auditing firms, engineering firms tend to be around £17k-£21k. The offset between a placement year and the first year of a graduate is minimal when you consider you give yourself a strong chance of getting a better graduate job than you otherwise could.
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