Cameron defends letter to Islamic leaders

This is nonsense. Forbidden by whom? Certainly not the government as there are over 600 Moslem soldiers. The armies of states with high Moslem populations like Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Syria, and Turkey don't seem to have problems in recruiting Moslem people into their ranks. Why is it that British Moslems are forbidden to join the army?

There is even an Islamic chaplain in the British army:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25680656

I'm talking about on religious grounds.

What religious grounds? If Moslems can join the Saudi army, the Afghan army or other armies of Moslem states then they can join the army of the UK.

I don't know about those armies but British Army is fighting and killing Muslims in Iraq and Afghanistan therefore it is forbidden to join them.

The Iraqi army is fighting and killing Moslems in Iraq and the Afghan army is doing so in Afghanistan. The Turkish army is fighting against Moslems on the Syrian border, and the Saudi army has also been engaged.

Why are Moslems not forbidden to join those armies by Islam?

Or are you just applying a double standard to the British army?

I don't know if they are allowed to join those armies either but the British Army has a history of killing Muslims for decades and they are actually at war with Islam. I know some western armies target civilians and also Britain stands with Israel who kill many innocent Palestinians.

Western Armies do not target civilians. They achieve absolutely nothing by doing so.

The reality is that Muslims murder more Muslims that Israel, Britain and the USA "target".

However, you can keep on living in your alternate world where Britain is at "war with Islam".

Western Armies do not target civilians. They achieve absolutely nothing by doing so.

The reality is that Muslims murder more Muslims that Israel, Britain and the USA "target".

However, you can keep on living in your alternate world where Britain is at "war with Islam".

I don't know if they are allowed to join those armies either .

but the British Army has a history of killing Muslims for decades

and they are actually at war with Islam.

I know some western armies target civilians

Britain stands with Israel who kill many innocent Palestinians

They have been known to target civilians stop kidding yourself especially the Americans. Their soldiers even admit to such things. Israel kills civilians in Palestine and if you don't accept that then you should go and live on the moon. The West is at war with islam and I can see it with my own eyes I don't need blind people like you to tell me what I'm seeing.

Using your logic if a few criminal soldiers represent the army then a few criminal Muslims represent Islam.

If people like you actually cared about Muslims, then you would be talking about Muslims have butchered hundreds of thousands of Muslims in the last 10 years. Not America. Not Britain.

Ok. Israel kills civilians. And?

The fact is that you and millions of other Muslims concentrate on 2000 deaths rather than tens of thousands of deaths across the border is the reason why Muslims are being executed by other Muslims.

The difference is that I am against the Israeli occupation, the American wars and Muslim extremism. You are only bothered about scoring points.

Well my reason for stating that would be that it us true. The only opinion in that was that Mohammed invented the Koran and why, and I would expect most UK residents to agree with me.

So challenging beliefs would be a no-no, then. Galileo's scientific advances wouldn't have taken place and fundamentalist Christians and Moslems who believe humans didn't evolve could not be substabtially challenged, not even by co-religionists.

What a dismal and oppressive world that would be.

Muslims butchering other Muslims is largely down to the west propping up people like Nur Al Maliki in Iraq for example. When you have somebody who is allied with the Americans who killed thousands of Iraqis as your leader of course there is going to be problems. America & the west supported resistance movements such as SRF and FSA with arms in Syria. You're not against Israel so don't give me that nonsense. No anti zionist would tell others to disregard the terrorist occupation and massacre of innocent civilians.

British Muslims are forbidden from serving in the British army.

Completely disagree. Islamophobia is on the rise and is very real. There has been a consistent bias in the media and there is proof to back this up. You need to understand western involvement in Muslim affairs has been THE dominant factor in the rise of extremism/terrorism in the world. We have propped up dictators(and still continue to do so), we have directly provided military equipment which has killed the lives of many innocent Muslims and carried out drone attacks which have killed innocents, raped/maimed/assaulted/abused innocents. Western governments still hold innocent people in prison for absolutely nothing. We is the west do not have a moral standing on such issues. The reality is that we're safe here in the UK and relatively its been like this since WW2. The reality for muslims is very different. The west carved up the Ottoman lands, we installed dictators and our corporations have benefited from the colossal amounts of natural resources from the muslim world. Oh and not to mention we're actively bombing Syria/Iraq as we speak. I've merely scratched the surface with the extent of Islamophobia/campaign against muslims. One thing to point out is that it is our governments and corporations that have been responsible, not the public. However I fear that the next decade or two things might take a turn for the worst.

Muslims, whether you like it or not, are not a separate entity but part of the human race. They should start acting like it instead of always seeking to lay blame outside of their religious community. I'm tired of this partisan, primitive tribal, 'us against them' mindset Muslims have. They are not special. No one is more special than anyone else. We are all part of the human race. Muslims should do more to gel with Western society and seek to find a way to keep their religiosity out of the realm of secular arenas, such as employment, government and social institutions. It's this almost narcissistic insistence on wearing different clothes than is mandatory for others (e.g. the NHS, the Police), special prayer times while at work, etc which creates resentment and tension and a feeling of unfairness. It is the UK not the Middle East, so grow up and get with the programme. Shut up, adapt, put up, or get out.

I am unconvinced by your argument above. The notion of Islamaphobia is clearly a phantom used by Islamist sympathisers to further advance their religious cause and deflect legitimate criticism. It's an avoidance tool. Any manifestation of anger towards the UK Muslim community is comparatively tiny and a natural reaction to the relentless fracturing of British social harmony Islam is exerting on it.

You dare to use the Ottoman Empire as some sort of prop for your argument. Do you not know the Ottomans had incredible blood on their hands prior to that. They attacked and conquered regions of the Classical Western World.

Also, anyone that uses condescending phrases like, "You need to understand", in a debate, loses my academic respect instantly.