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Is it wrong for a working-class person to vote Conservatives (Personal Story)

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Original post by Anonymous
Hi,

I would like to keep this anonymous for personal reasons.

I'm in my final year of a top 10 UK University, it's been quite a journey with lots of highs and lows since finishing A-levels and taking a Gap Year.

I come from the bottom 10% of society; we live in council housing, my father lives off welfare benefits after losing his job around 15years ago and my mother works part-time in Tesco. Our household income is probably around £10-12k per annum, however they are also gambling addicts. Life's been very hard for me, pretty much all my life - no security, no inheritance, no holidays, no role-models, my parents constantly arguing over money etc.

I kind of felt free when I came to university, where I could make a fresh start. During A-levels, I used to just go to the library every evening in my local town to escape the traumas and problems of home, it kind of felt like heaven to me. I managed to achieve straight-A grades at A-level and was determined to make something of my life as I knew if I ****ed up, I'd have nothing to lose anyway, how much worse could life get right haha?

Anyway I should hopefully be graduating this year, I've made lots of great friends and connections in the past 4years through being opportunistic and hungry..pretty much all my friends are middle/upper-middle class..so they've kind of changed my outlook and perspective on things. Like the way I speak now is a lot posher than before, you would probably think I'm middle-class if you met me..

I've also received a job offer from a top commerical law firm in London starting me on around £50k. Obviously this is a lot of money for someone from my background and it feels as though I'm gaining the fruits of my hardwork. Obviously coming from the bottom 10% of society, I will now be in the top 10% (income-wise)..paying 40% tax etc.

I share a lot of values with the Tory party, however when I tell people who know me from the beginning they say it's wrong for someone like me to vote Tory as it's full of toffs and middle/upper-middle class people who I can't relate to or don't care about the normal average joe on the street etc..

Was just wondering about the thoughts/views others had on this given my background..

:smile:


I honestly can't tell whether you're bragging about your achievements or initiating a political debate
Being working class is neither here nor there. But I'm pretty sure voting Tory is short-listed for DSM-6... :tongue:
If you want to **** all over others from the bottom 10% and try and keep them poor then sure, vote Tory :/
What beliefs do you share with the Tory party exactly? Even a stopped clock is right twice a day. Unless it's a digital Tory. Clock! A digital clock. Then it's never right. Because it's dead inside... Are we still talking about clocks?
Reply 64
Original post by redferry
If you want to **** all over others from the bottom 10% and try and keep them poor then sure, vote Tory :/


This is a myth.

A report from the ons has shown that inequality has dropped in the period from 2010/11 to 2011/12. The study also found tat since the start of the financial crisis in 2007/08 the richest fifth of households have seen their income fall 6.8%, whist the poorest fifth of households saw their income rise by 6.9%. The really damning part for the big bad tory brigade was that this was found to be due to our system of taxes and benefits.
Original post by Anonymous
Hi,

I would like to keep this anonymous for personal reasons.

I'm in my final year of a top 10 UK University, it's been quite a journey with lots of highs and lows since finishing A-levels and taking a Gap Year.

I come from the bottom 10% of society; we live in council housing, my father lives off welfare benefits after losing his job around 15years ago and my mother works part-time in Tesco. Our household income is probably around £10-12k per annum, however they are also gambling addicts. Life's been very hard for me, pretty much all my life - no security, no inheritance, no holidays, no role-models, my parents constantly arguing over money etc.

I kind of felt free when I came to university, where I could make a fresh start. During A-levels, I used to just go to the library every evening in my local town to escape the traumas and problems of home, it kind of felt like heaven to me. I managed to achieve straight-A grades at A-level and was determined to make something of my life as I knew if I ****ed up, I'd have nothing to lose anyway, how much worse could life get right haha?

Anyway I should hopefully be graduating this year, I've made lots of great friends and connections in the past 4years through being opportunistic and hungry..pretty much all my friends are middle/upper-middle class..so they've kind of changed my outlook and perspective on things. Like the way I speak now is a lot posher than before, you would probably think I'm middle-class if you met me..

I've also received a job offer from a top commerical law firm in London starting me on around £50k. Obviously this is a lot of money for someone from my background and it feels as though I'm gaining the fruits of my hardwork. Obviously coming from the bottom 10% of society, I will now be in the top 10% (income-wise)..paying 40% tax etc.

I share a lot of values with the Tory party, however when I tell people who know me from the beginning they say it's wrong for someone like me to vote Tory as it's full of toffs and middle/upper-middle class people who I can't relate to or don't care about the normal average joe on the street etc..

Was just wondering about the thoughts/views others had on this given my background..

:smile:


I would argue that if it wasn't for the welfare state and the numerous campaigns for equality you or your family wouldn't have had the resources to put you though university, nevermind cloth or feed you.


Most young people think the Tories are for the working class or the middle class but in reality they are nothing more than sleazy salesmen selling you greed & individualism.


If you really dive into their idealogy which is Neo-Liberalism you will find out that it is nothing more than a scam to siphon the wealth from the bottom into the hands of a few.


I'll put it like this to you. If you want to make lots of money, live in London and see the rest of England turn into a third world country vote Conservative.

However if you want Britain to be a economy which grows in terms of all sectors growing instead of 1 called the financial sector then you need to follow a more progressive ideology.

This ideology is called Capitalism.

You see the Tories have never followed Capitalism. Neo Liberalism is not Capitalism. It is Corporate Fascism. The belief that you have to cut taxes for the rich and shower the rich in money to make things work. If this was the case the Western world would be a utopia right now but instead it has only turned into a utopia for the rich.

Now £50,000 a anum is not rich. Even £250,000 per anum is not rich. This is peanuts compared to what rich people earn. Your classed rich if you earn £1000 a hour.

I will continue on another post.
(edited 9 years ago)
Reply 66
In your case it seems logical to vote conservative...why would you vote for the party that, in a big way, helps to perpetuate the kind of household you grew up in.
Besides, if it were wrong for you to vote conservative, then by that logic there shouldn't be any hereditary labour peers.
Original post by Anonymous
Hi


I'll put the economy in your perspective. Your going to be a lawyer. Well you need customers and at a £50,000 wage packet your customers aren't going to be someone who owns a Aston Martin. Your customers are going to be working to middle class.

Currently the Neo-Liberal Tory ideology formally known as Thatcherism or Reganism has presided over a period in history where the rich have became richer and the poor have became poorer.

Thatcher once said you lift the poor up by making the rich richer. Well we have had 45 years of this idealogy and the working class are more poorer now than they where in the 1970s.

What about New Labour? They are Thatcherites. Tony Blair followed Neo-Liberalism though and though. In fact Tony Blair created one of the biggest booms for the rich. Millionaires became Billionaires in his time.

So this leaves your customers in a bad state. Your going to get poorer and poorer because they are going to be spending less and less money.

But if you move to London and take the crumbs off the bankers table then maybe your have a better life. That is if you move to London.

The trouble is when the poor become poorer the buying capacity shrinks year after year. This capacity is what makes people rich.

A strong middle class is what every salesmen looks for when selling their product but the middle class currently only accounts for 25% of the UK population since 2013. It has been shrinking ever since due to Neo Liberalism.

So here is your choice.

Vote new Labour/Conservative ............ Both are Corporate Fascists.

The difference is new Labour will throw your family and wider family a bone or two. They'll give them some welfare to live on. New Labour will allow people to become productive to be better producing slaves.

But the Tories will basically let the slaves die off. They are very good at doing it. When the stock runs low they will simply replace the slave stock with immigrants from the EU under a new Labour Government.

So whoever you choose its the difference between more immigrants or more educated slaves like yourself.

...... You know the African American population in the States have a good saying: You can either be a Field or House person.

You can hump your masters leg or you can run away and rebel.

Your choice.
Original post by illegaltobepoor
I'll put the economy in your perspective. Your going to be a lawyer. Well you need customers and at a £50,000 wage packet your customers aren't going to be someone who owns a Aston Martin. Your customers are going to be working to middle class.

Currently the Neo-Liberal Tory ideology formally known as Thatcherism or Reganism has presided over a period in history where the rich have became richer and the poor have became poorer.

Thatcher once said you lift the poor up by making the rich richer. Well we have had 45 years of this idealogy and the working class are more poorer now than they where in the 1970s.

What about New Labour? They are Thatcherites. Tony Blair followed Neo-Liberalism though and though. In fact Tony Blair created one of the biggest booms for the rich. Millionaires became Billionaires in his time.

So this leaves your customers in a bad state. Your going to get poorer and poorer because they are going to be spending less and less money.

But if you move to London and take the crumbs off the bankers table then maybe your have a better life. That is if you move to London.

The trouble is when the poor become poorer the buying capacity shrinks year after year. This capacity is what makes people rich.

A strong middle class is what every salesmen looks for when selling their product but the middle class currently only accounts for 25% of the UK population since 2013. It has been shrinking ever since due to Neo Liberalism.

So here is your choice.

Vote new Labour/Conservative ............ Both are Corporate Fascists.

The difference is new Labour will throw your family and wider family a bone or two. They'll give them some welfare to live on. New Labour will allow people to become productive to be better producing slaves.

But the Tories will basically let the slaves die off. They are very good at doing it. When the stock runs low they will simply replace the slave stock with immigrants from the EU under a new Labour Government.

So whoever you choose its the difference between more immigrants or more educated slaves like yourself.

...... You know the African American population in the States have a good saying: You can either be a Field or House person.

You can hump your masters leg or you can run away and rebel.

Your choice.


hatcher once said you lift the poor up by making the rich richer. Well we have had 45 years of this idealogy and the working class are more poorer now than they where in the 1970s.


Your taking US statistics and conflating them here. Upto 2005, every single income docile was richer than they had been even in real terms a decade before. The UK is not the USA.
Original post by Anonymous
Hi


Original post by JackS94
In your case it seems logical to vote conservative...why would you vote for the party that, in a big way, helps to perpetuate the kind of household you grew up in.
Besides, if it were wrong for you to vote conservative, then by that logic there shouldn't be any hereditary labour peers.


What this person is trying to say is that you would be better if your family had no welfare payments. He'd want you to grow up even poorer and not even have a chance of doing your A levels because as soon as you hit 16 you would have to find a job to help your family cope.

He is also saying that the Labour party create poverty. That some how Neo-Liberalism is the best thing since sliced bread. Not that you would know what sliced bread was because without welfare payments you would be eating porridge & gruel.

I say to you there is a good reason why people like Lord Sugar is a Labour supporter. Someone who turned himself from a rag & bone collector into a multi millionaire who is 100m shy of a whole billion!

I wonder if its something called life experience of what its like at the bottom of society and how it is living though 8 Conservative Governments. The man knows what its like.

I say to the OP what will be better for those smart intelligent children who have nothing to their names? Poverty or some welfare to make sure they come of age at 16-25 with the tools they need to become productive like yourself.

Even though Labour are Neo-Liberalist as much as the Tories at least they give people like yourself a fighting chance to live.
Reply 70
Original post by illegaltobepoor
What this person is trying to say is that you would be better if your family had no welfare payments. He'd want you to grow up even poorer and not even have a chance of doing your A levels because as soon as you hit 16 you would have to find a job to help your family cope.

He is also saying that the Labour party create poverty. That some how Neo-Liberalism is the best thing since sliced bread. Not that you would know what sliced bread was because without welfare payments you would be eating porridge & gruel.

I say to you there is a good reason why people like Lord Sugar is a Labour supporter. Someone who turned himself from a rag & bone collector into a multi millionaire who is 100m shy of a whole billion!

I wonder if its something called life experience of what its like at the bottom of society and how it is living though 8 Conservative Governments. The man knows what its like.

I say to the OP what will be better for those smart intelligent children who have nothing to their names? Poverty or some welfare to make sure they come of age at 16-25 with the tools they need to become productive like yourself.

Even though Labour are Neo-Liberalist as much as the Tories at least they give people like yourself a fighting chance to live.


Yep. That's exactly what I was saying. Nailed it.

Or maybe I was referencing the fact that Labour does less to encourage people past welfare, and that they aren't willing to make cuts that are clearly necessary since we spend too much on welfare.
I'm speaking as someone who went to a state school, who knows full well that there are lots of people who take advantage of the system. I know disability frauds, I know people who had free school meals even though they took a packed lunch to school everyday (and they ate both, or threw away their packed lunch), and people who, despite living in crappy council housing on full benefits, always seemed to have enough money for the latest iphone or drugs.
Don't misquote me here. I know this isn't everyone, and probably isn't the majority, but it certainly happens and from what I've seen Labour doesn't seem willing (or able?) to implement any kind of change that will penalise those people who do not deserve the level of assistance that they receive.

At the end of the day, OP, you have your own political, moral and ethical leanings and if your vote is going to be swayed by whatever crap you hear from people on an internet forum, then perhaps you shouldn't vote at all.
Original post by Fullofsurprises
The Conservative Party only ever gets elected with the help of large numbers of working class voters. It achieves this via a long-running con game (which goes back at least the the 19th century) which uses a range of tricks to persuade some working class people that they share their interests.

This can never really be true. The Tories exist to serve the interests of a tiny number of very wealthy people. (the owners of large scale capital) Nowadays, despite the way the Tories try to use patriotism, this is not even a British owning class - much of Tory funding comes from tax exiles and foreign interests. Their biggest backer owns much of Belize and is a major tax avoider. Cameron and Osborne are part of a circle of hedge fund owners, international capitalists and global tax evaders who refuse to participate in ordinary society and use the party as a tool to promote their personal interests.

Everything else is just an illusion, manufactured for the masses.


The reason the working class vote Conservatives is because it's largely a two party system, where it counts, and you can vote for either status quo where not a lot changes physically or morally in the country - or you can vote for more progressivism, which the patriotic working classes do not wish for.

The Conservatives would be utterly crushed by a real patriotic party, if they had enough publicity to become well known. This thread makes it sound like it's a class issue, when it's a culture one.


Original post by illegaltobepoor


Even though Labour are Neo-Liberalist as much as the Tories at least they give people like yourself a fighting chance to live.


I've seen you shilling Labour on many other threads now. You need to understand that Labour don't have an economic policy that works other than printing more money and destroy the currency. They're all for mass immigration and like Jack says, have helped to develop a functioning underclass, below the working class. These people are scum (Labour). Alan Sugar got to where he is today by getting off his arse and doing some work- he had no time for welfare benefits.
(edited 9 years ago)
ffs vote for the party that has the wisest programme (according to you).
I can guarantee (pretty much) what I'm going to say won't influence your voting choice in May. That's because just like everyone else (me included!) you'll be "convinced" by the argument that best fits where you are on the day.

It certainly sounds like you had it tougher than many and you're now on the brink of a much better life. Congratulations (not being sarcastic). Who knows, if your luck* holds and your successes build on each other you might one day be a Tory Prime Minister (okay, sarcastic).

* yes, luck is a key component in being successful. Especially if you don't have wealth/family/contacts to fall back on. You're in the wrong place at the wrong time, you get ill, your boss takes a dislike to you, or some f-tard from Eton decides to screw you over to make himself look good [chip on shoulder duly acknowledged]

Your working class roots seem devoid of any concept of how lives can be changed through mutual support and collective struggle. A sad reflection on decades of neoliberalism. Going into commercial law you are unlikely to ever have to rub shoulders with the lower orders again. Maybe it's not too early to think about how you will give something back rather than kicking away the ladder behind you.

Remember you did not get here on your own. Is your haven of a library still there? Will it be in five years time? What about the teachers raising families and paying mortgages (if they're lucky) on less than you'll be getting as a 20 something? Your college Lecturers, Cleaners, Admin staff, etc? Did none of them make a contribution?

Maybe you should consider whether your vote is all about you or if there's scope to take a different approach.

Bon voyage, Dave A

PS a bit moralistic I know, but you're the one who wants to vote Tory :wink:
Original post by HigherMinion

I've seen you shilling Labour on many other threads now. You need to understand that Labour don't have an economic policy that works other than printing more money and destroy the currency. They're all for mass immigration and like Jack says, have helped to develop a functioning underclass, below the working class. These people are scum (Labour). Alan Sugar got to where he is today by getting off his arse and doing some work- he had no time for welfare benefits.


You seem to be under this illusion that the Conservatives are not printing money.

Government doesn't have control of money printing. Government gave that control to private banks. No not the Bank of England. Retail banks like HSBC and Barclays.

Money printing is still going on. Our financial debt is still increasing. The only thing the Conservatives have done is cut the public deficit by a third. The public debt has increased more in this Conservative 5 year term than Labour's 13 year term.

These are facts.

Cutting taxes and cutting public services is hardly a economic plan. Tories have done that for centuries. And just like all previous recessions the main cause is lack of liquidity.

The cold hard truth is Neo-Liberalism has failed for the 90% of workers. The majority. And we are going to have to move back to a manufacturing based economy. This means more liquidity spread amongst all productive sectors, a weaker currency and a national collective mindset rather than sharp elbows and get out of my way.

Working class people haven't seen their living standards increase. You could abolish all taxes for the working classes and they still would be worse off.

Neo-Liberalism has FAILED!

Get that though your head.

The economy is booming for the top 10%. We live in a nation of 2 economies. 1 which caters for the rich and another which caters for everyone else.
Original post by JackS94
Yep. That's exactly what I was saying. Nailed it.

Or maybe I was referencing the fact that Labour does less to encourage people past welfare, and that they aren't willing to make cuts that are clearly necessary since we spend too much on welfare.
I'm speaking as someone who went to a state school, who knows full well that there are lots of people who take advantage of the system. I know disability frauds, I know people who had free school meals even though they took a packed lunch to school everyday (and they ate both, or threw away their packed lunch), and people who, despite living in crappy council housing on full benefits, always seemed to have enough money for the latest iphone or drugs.
Don't misquote me here. I know this isn't everyone, and probably isn't the majority, but it certainly happens and from what I've seen Labour doesn't seem willing (or able?) to implement any kind of change that will penalise those people who do not deserve the level of assistance that they receive.

At the end of the day, OP, you have your own political, moral and ethical leanings and if your vote is going to be swayed by whatever crap you hear from people on an internet forum, then perhaps you shouldn't vote at all.


Most people who are under 35 have never known a true Labour Government. What they know is Blairite idealogy. It is essentially a crony Labour party.

The reason why you can't see sense is because you think Neo-Liberalism is working and this is how a economy is suppose to run.

There is not many people who are 55+ here. So I don't expect the majority of you to know what I am speaking about.
So I suggest you research the following:

Has Neo-Liberalism worked for the majority?
Has Trickle down economics worked?
Good for you!

While they are scoffed at, there are a significant number of working class Conservatives and it is quite simply because they believe in the values of the party.
Original post by illegaltobepoor
rambling nonsense of a labour supporter.


You what mate? I guess you recently watched that BBC socialist propaganda documentary "The Super-Rich and Us".
Original post by HigherMinion
You what mate? I guess you recently watched that BBC socialist propaganda documentary "The Super-Rich and Us".


I've watched tons of documentaries including that one. Believe it or not but we only went Neo-Liberal since the 1970s. You can't exactly say Neo-Liberalism works because in 45 years its been a failure.
Original post by illegaltobepoor
I've watched tons of documentaries including that one. Believe it or not but we only went Neo-Liberal since the 1970s. You can't exactly say Neo-Liberalism works because in 45 years its been a failure.


I never said it did; you're rambling again, perhaps to start a fight. You should consider not posting so passive-aggressively all the time. It's like the chaps who talk about "the Finns" all the time and insist on global conspiracies. At least consider not making the same arguments time and time again towards people who haven't even engaged you in debate.

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