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Original post by morphdoc
Got my cambridge neuro!!
Reserve list in London lol :P
Reserve list in London lol :P
Mind me asking how you know what you academic placement is? Mine just says "academic choice rotation" :\
Original post by sande412
Me tooo... disappointing 
any ideas what sort of chances we have? I guess we have no way of finding out where we are on the reserve list. I want to know the stats re how many places were re-offered last year. hmm!
any ideas what sort of chances we have? I guess we have no way of finding out where we are on the reserve list. I want to know the stats re how many places were re-offered last year. hmm!Stats from Thames AFP 2014: 138 offered, 121 accepted. 17 offered to those on the reserve list in the first round. Most of the posts that weren't accepted - so offered to the reserve list candidates - were posts at Barts and the London or St. Georges. Almost everyone accepted their initial offers from Imperial, RUMS and GKT.
And I don't think it matters too much where you 'are' on the reserve list. It is pretty much pot luck as to which candidates decline their offer, and then whether or not you have this on your list of jobs that you applied for. I, for example, only applied for a handful of post in London, so I'm going to have to be damn lucky for someone to decline one of the jobs I want and then be the next highest ranked candidate on the reserve list with it... Not especially hopeful!
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Archen
Mind me asking how you know what you academic placement is? Mine just says "academic choice rotation" :\
It just said on FPAS. I have F1 in Kings Lynn: general surg, oncology, internal medicine and F2 in Addenbrokes: research, neurology, neurosurgery
I guess you got a place on AFP "Academic Choice" that is you can choose which one you want to do from the given list.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by morphdoc
Got my cambridge neuro!!
Reserve list in London lol :P
Reserve list in London lol :P
Take cambridge any day!
Original post by Ranjit82
Take cambridge any day!
Pfu accepted the offer within miliseconds :P
Original post by Feynman'sBongo
Stats from Thames AFP 2014: 138 offered, 121 accepted. 17 offered to those on the reserve list in the first round. Most of the posts that weren't accepted - so offered to the reserve list candidates - were posts at Barts and the London or St. Georges. Almost everyone accepted their initial offers from Imperial, RUMS and GKT.
And I don't think it matters too much where you 'are' on the reserve list. It is pretty much pot luck as to which candidates decline their offer, and then whether or not you have this on your list of jobs that you applied for. I, for example, only applied for a handful of post in London, so I'm going to have to be damn lucky for someone to decline one of the jobs I want and then be the next highest ranked candidate on the reserve list with it... Not especially hopeful!
And I don't think it matters too much where you 'are' on the reserve list. It is pretty much pot luck as to which candidates decline their offer, and then whether or not you have this on your list of jobs that you applied for. I, for example, only applied for a handful of post in London, so I'm going to have to be damn lucky for someone to decline one of the jobs I want and then be the next highest ranked candidate on the reserve list with it... Not especially hopeful!
Any idea what jobs are still available on reserve list this year and how many there are?
Original post by Ranjit82
Any idea what jobs are still available on reserve list this year and how many there are?
Nope.. I guess calling sTFS and asking wont hurt, they may provide some general info on how many places people have taken etc (best to call after noon tomorrow when people have all taken their places).
On a side note, how do we get to find out our places within the rankings? I dont mind not finding out actually, but just wondering (seemed that people last year found out)?
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by bodoing
Nope.. I guess calling sTFS and asking wont hurt, they may provide some general info on how many places people have taken etc (best to call after noon tomorrow when people have all taken their places).
On a side note, how do we get to find out our places within the rankings? I dont mind not finding out actually, but just wondering (seemed that people last year found out)?
On a side note, how do we get to find out our places within the rankings? I dont mind not finding out actually, but just wondering (seemed that people last year found out)?
Last year we got an email after the whole process was complete with quartiles for application form and each station of the interview and our overall ranking.
Guys if you go on the FPAS website and have a look at your submitted applications and job rankings, it will have the vacancies next to it, and it seems that if someone/people (if more than one post) has taken the job the vacancies will show as 0 and if not then 1 (or more). Just did a quick pass of Thames and West Midlands:
17 available in Thames (rough counting)
5 in West Midlands (edit: used to say 3, must have made a mistake and counted 3 instead of 5)
This is as of 00.42am tho
17 available in Thames (rough counting)
5 in West Midlands (edit: used to say 3, must have made a mistake and counted 3 instead of 5)
This is as of 00.42am tho
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by bodoing
Guys if you go on the FPAS website and have a look at your submitted applications and job rankings, it will have the vacancies next to it, and it seems that if someone/people (if more than one post) has taken the job the vacancies will show as 0 and if not then 1 (or more). Just did a quick pass of Thames and West Midlands:
17 available in Thames (rough counting)
3 in West Midlands
This is as of 00.42am tho
17 available in Thames (rough counting)
3 in West Midlands
This is as of 00.42am tho
Great spot! Only the 2 on my list for Thames...
Original post by bodoing
Guys if you go on the FPAS website and have a look at your submitted applications and job rankings, it will have the vacancies next to it, and it seems that if someone/people (if more than one post) has taken the job the vacancies will show as 0 and if not then 1 (or more). Just did a quick pass of Thames and West Midlands:
17 available in Thames (rough counting)
5 in West Midlands (edit: used to say 3, must have made a mistake and counted 3 instead of 5)
This is as of 00.42am tho
17 available in Thames (rough counting)
5 in West Midlands (edit: used to say 3, must have made a mistake and counted 3 instead of 5)
This is as of 00.42am tho
Which courses are these in Thames? Would really appreciate if you could let me know.. I can't see it atm!
Original post by Ranjit82
Which courses are these in Thames? Would really appreciate if you could let me know.. I can't see it atm!
Now around 21 jobs available in Thames. Seems that they are doing this by 'reverse-logical' order, where the jobs are shown as 0 when they are first offered, and then made available again (so shown as 1) if someone rejects it (outright or takes another job elsewhere). (I think this is what must have happened when I took the Thames job over the other place that I applied)
I dont think it is fully appropriate to publish all the details here on a public forum, but u can see if u log in and have a look at ur application or pm me or something.
On last rough look both research and teaching were available and I don't think any major trusts are 'sold out' as it were.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Ranjit82
Which courses are these in Thames? Would really appreciate if you could let me know.. I can't see it atm!
You should be able to see it? Click 'AFP - Thames' under the Submitted Applications title. Then click 'View Submitted Application' on the right hand side. Then scroll down (through the rest of your original application - white space questions etc), and below are all the jobs you ranked (as well as those you didn't). For each job, the 'Number of Vacancies' is marked with a 0 (job allocated) or 1 (job unallocated).
Hope this helps.
Cascade: the ironic situation where people ranked lower manage to secure jobs which people ranked higher than them may have wanted but failed to secure.
Not that I'm complaining or that it affects me - but it must seriously suck if you see the job you really really wanted open up and you've accepted another job in that deanery.
Not that I'm complaining or that it affects me - but it must seriously suck if you see the job you really really wanted open up and you've accepted another job in that deanery.
Original post by Toiletpaper8
Cascade: the ironic situation where people ranked lower manage to secure jobs which people ranked higher than them may have wanted but failed to secure.
Not that I'm complaining or that it affects me - but it must seriously suck if you see the job you really really wanted open up and you've accepted another job in that deanery.
Not that I'm complaining or that it affects me - but it must seriously suck if you see the job you really really wanted open up and you've accepted another job in that deanery.
I agree with the sentiment, but I'm not sure it is as simple as that.
If, for example, the person who currently doesn't have a job only ranked very few jobs in total (i.e. 10), whereas the person who has secured a job ranked all 138, it may in fact be that the former ranked higher (but not high enough to secure one of their 10 jobs). The other way, as you suggest, is entirely possible too (and probably more common?).
I think the Thames deanery has made a bit of an error with regards to AFP application in general. It encourages candidates to apply for many posts (as you're then more likely to get appointed), but this then doesn't necessarily mean that that candidate is going to be passionate about the post their allocated too - as you say, they may have just 'accepted another post', even though it was 80th on their list. I don't think many people can say with honesty that they would be thrilled to do more than about 20 of the posts, which makes me wonder if some people are accepting/applying academic posts with the Thames Deanery that they don't particularly want to do?
Original post by Feynman'sBongo
I agree with the sentiment, but I'm not sure it is as simple as that.
If, for example, the person who currently doesn't have a job only ranked very few jobs in total (i.e. 10), whereas the person who has secured a job ranked all 138, it may in fact be that the former ranked higher (but not high enough to secure one of their 10 jobs). The other way, as you suggest, is entirely possible too (and probably more common?).
I think the Thames deanery has made a bit of an error with regards to AFP application in general. It encourages candidates to apply for many posts (as you're then more likely to get appointed), but this then doesn't necessarily mean that that candidate is going to be passionate about the post their allocated too - as you say, they may have just 'accepted another post', even though it was 80th on their list. I don't think many people can say with honesty that they would be thrilled to do more than about 20 of the posts, which makes me wonder if some people are accepting/applying academic posts with the Thames Deanery that they don't particularly want to do?
If, for example, the person who currently doesn't have a job only ranked very few jobs in total (i.e. 10), whereas the person who has secured a job ranked all 138, it may in fact be that the former ranked higher (but not high enough to secure one of their 10 jobs). The other way, as you suggest, is entirely possible too (and probably more common?).
I think the Thames deanery has made a bit of an error with regards to AFP application in general. It encourages candidates to apply for many posts (as you're then more likely to get appointed), but this then doesn't necessarily mean that that candidate is going to be passionate about the post their allocated too - as you say, they may have just 'accepted another post', even though it was 80th on their list. I don't think many people can say with honesty that they would be thrilled to do more than about 20 of the posts, which makes me wonder if some people are accepting/applying academic posts with the Thames Deanery that they don't particularly want to do?
I was thinking about this point too. I would guess that they have give some kind of weighting regarding the candidates ranking/preference for the job as well as the overall ranking of the candidate themselves. As such I would say it maybe fairly unlikely to get your 110th choice or something, as it could go to someone with a very slightly lower score who is much more passionate about doing the job.
Although I did rank all jobs (was encouraged to do so), if I didn't get one of my preferable choices, I really wouldn't know what I would have done. Luckily I was not faced with that choice in the end but I do feel for those who are.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by bodoing
I was thinking about this point too. I would guess that they have give some kind of weighting regarding the candidates ranking/preference for the job as well as the overall ranking of the candidate themselves. As such I would say it maybe fairly unlikely to get your 110th choice or something, as it could go to someone with a very slightly lower score who is much more passionate about doing the job.
Although I did rank all jobs (was encouraged to do so), if I didn't get one of my preferable choices, I really wouldn't know what I would have done. Luckily I was not faced with that choice in the end but I do feel for those who are.
Although I did rank all jobs (was encouraged to do so), if I didn't get one of my preferable choices, I really wouldn't know what I would have done. Luckily I was not faced with that choice in the end but I do feel for those who are.
You would hope that they had something in the algorithm as you suggest, but I do suspect that it is just meritocratic (as, for example, the normal FP allocation is).
Original post by Feynman'sBongo
I agree with the sentiment, but I'm not sure it is as simple as that.
If, for example, the person who currently doesn't have a job only ranked very few jobs in total (i.e. 10), whereas the person who has secured a job ranked all 138, it may in fact be that the former ranked higher (but not high enough to secure one of their 10 jobs). The other way, as you suggest, is entirely possible too (and probably more common?).
I think the Thames deanery has made a bit of an error with regards to AFP application in general. It encourages candidates to apply for many posts (as you're then more likely to get appointed), but this then doesn't necessarily mean that that candidate is going to be passionate about the post their allocated too - as you say, they may have just 'accepted another post', even though it was 80th on their list. I don't think many people can say with honesty that they would be thrilled to do more than about 20 of the posts, which makes me wonder if some people are accepting/applying academic posts with the Thames Deanery that they don't particularly want to do?
If, for example, the person who currently doesn't have a job only ranked very few jobs in total (i.e. 10), whereas the person who has secured a job ranked all 138, it may in fact be that the former ranked higher (but not high enough to secure one of their 10 jobs). The other way, as you suggest, is entirely possible too (and probably more common?).
I think the Thames deanery has made a bit of an error with regards to AFP application in general. It encourages candidates to apply for many posts (as you're then more likely to get appointed), but this then doesn't necessarily mean that that candidate is going to be passionate about the post their allocated too - as you say, they may have just 'accepted another post', even though it was 80th on their list. I don't think many people can say with honesty that they would be thrilled to do more than about 20 of the posts, which makes me wonder if some people are accepting/applying academic posts with the Thames Deanery that they don't particularly want to do?
I think the general trend now is that academic jobs are seen as this 'elite' thing, opposed to the thing people do if they have a genuine interest in academic medicine or might want to see if academic medicine is for them because they haven't been exposed to that many opportunities as an undergrad. Unfortunately - the latter is now impossible - as you cannot get an AFP without some previous experience of research because of the way the system works... so it's not really a taster any more... and we have people with PhDs and 3 years of research experience going for these jobs. I don't think it helped to have AFP on the same application form as the normal UKFPO as this has massively increased competition with some people thinking... 'oh I'll just go it for and see what happens' with no real interest in research. More and more people are applying year after year and I'm sure many have no real academic interest - the jobs are just seen as prestigious.
I think the initial aim of the AFP was to get more people interested in a career in academic medicine - to inspire people, to give people a taster of what it's like. Now I think a lot of it is people applying because it's what people who are good enough do - which obviously deprives people who are less CV orientated in their day to day medical school life (everyone knows people in every medical school who do things purely to pad the CV without a genuine interest or passion) but are genuinely interested and excited by research. This is the system where 5 letters to the editor on Thames AFP (I didn't apply Thames) count for more points than a single, methodologically strong RCT which you yourself designed, conducted and wrote up. This is the system where people pay big money to go to a conference to stick up a poster - great if you get a bursary or funding but not everyone does and not everyone can afford it (plus, from experience, conferences accept virtually everything for posters).
A proper robust meta-analysis on a big topic may take years to complete and just the search is enough of a pain. If you've completed this and written it up, say even if you've submitted it and it's going through peer review - as long as it isn't published, it counts for nothing at all, not even as much as a published PubMed indexed letter to the editor, which is complete peanuts to produce. This is somewhat an extension of 'publish or perish' - essentially, we are rewarding quantity over quality - we are rewarding low quality but high quantity research output - papers which are completely trash and completely and utterly un-citeable. But what do you expect if you put in place a system that awards points for the sheer number of publications and presentations??
I don't think it's a problem with the AFP though - but rather academia in general - a problem I'm sure all of us will encounter in our future careers.
But good luck for cascade and I hope you get a Thames job you want
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