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Original post by bertstare
Everyone agrees with this.

Everyone being treated as equal =/= everyone being equal



okay so tell me why people aren't treated equally then despite people thinking they should be
Reply 541
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abimoon
Original post by RFowler
The environment should be at least as important as the economy.

Don't know how controversial that is in terms of wider public opinion. But the political establishment doesn't take environmental protection very seriously when there is money to be made from damaging activities, and there is no sign of that changing.


I completely agree with that!! without a stable environment the economy we know would be in ruins
Original post by louieee
okay so tell me why people aren't treated equally then despite people thinking they should be


How are people not treated equally under the law?
Original post by bertstare
How are people not treated equally under the law?




I don't remember mentioning the law mate
Original post by louieee
I don't remember mentioning the law mate


So in what way are people not "treated equally" in 2015?
Original post by bertstare
So in what way are people not "treated equally" in 2015?




if you're ignorant enough to not be aware of this already then you're too ignorant for my words to mean anything to you and I have homework for tomorrow morning.
Burger king is overrated.
Multiculturalism offers little to no benefits to a western country, as lovely as the word 'vibrancy' is.

Also diversity has no meaningful impact on the ability of a workforce.
(edited 9 years ago)
1. What the west calls democracy isn't democracy its a load of bull****.
2. Capitalism as a force of evil not good, it is the economy of greed.
3. smoking should be banned in all public spaces
4. Our society is ****ed up, we glorify our drinking culture and celebrity culture and don't care about meaningful things like literature and science.
5. All nukes should be abolished in the world and armies should be severely reduced.
6. America and Britain is just as evil as Russia and china.
7. Homosexuality is both a result of environmental and genetic factors but all people should be treated equally and no one should be persecuted and no violence should be committed, we have to love and respect one another.
8. And finally : there should not be such a concept as a nation, the whole world should unify under one banner and we should explore and colonise space :smile:
(edited 9 years ago)
On average, men are better at making competent and logical decisions as to compared to women.
The standing army should be reduced in size or abolished. Private gun ownership ought to be made legal subject to minor background checks.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Phoebe Buffay
1) That measures should be taken to severely restrict the sale of cigarettes and alcohol in this country.

2) There is no 'war' on drugs.

3) We should reintroduce the death penalty.

These are 3 of mine.


1) That wouldn't decrease their usage, they would just be sold illegally, the same way people buy illegal drugs now.

2) They are fighting a 'war' on drugs, but as with any addiction/health issue punishing those using doesn't improve anyones situation.

3) Ridiculous. Give me your reasons why. It doesn't work as a deterrant to crime, found with higher crime statistics in US states that do have the death penalty compared to those that don't.
You cannot morally say something is wrong, and then enforce it as revenge on criminals.
There are a number of cases of criminals found to be innocent after the death penalty has already been applied to them.
I'm just going to be honest- I don't think big women can typically be as attractive as skinny women. I will clarify that I think some bigger women are more attractive than some skinnier women however as a whole its just easier for skinny women to look good. And to answer the questions I'm now concerned I'll get-
1. No I don't condone girls being encouraged to starve themselves to be considered attractive.
2. No I'm not particularly superficial. This is just a thought I have on one particular issue.
3. Yes obviously there is such a thing as too skinny. Size 0 isn't healthy.
Drinking to excess is ****ing brilliant.
Original post by posthumus
Democracy is a load of bull****

And modern "civilisation" is overrated.


who overrates it?
everyone always complains about it :P

and i think everyone should have the right to vote.. i thought that was democracy (i may b wrong)
Original post by lamipe
Having your own biological child/children should not be a God given right. If you are that desperate,adopt!!


Posted from TSR Mobile


Agreed. There are no God-given rights, period.
Original post by scriggy
Drinking to excess is ****ing brilliant.


For those who want medical problems or a criminal record, fine...
Original post by EllieC130
I'm just going to be honest- I don't think big women can typically be as attractive as skinny women. I will clarify that I think some bigger women are more attractive than some skinnier women however as a whole its just easier for skinny women to look good. And to answer the questions I'm now concerned I'll get-
1. No I don't condone girls being encouraged to starve themselves to be considered attractive.
2. No I'm not particularly superficial. This is just a thought I have on one particular issue.
3. Yes obviously there is such a thing as too skinny. Size 0 isn't healthy.


Agreed, largely. curvy women can be cute, but obese, no. attractiveness is more than body though imho..
Original post by TheTruthTeller
But Nazism is a political ideology. One can follow the Koran in mutliple way and can have multiple interpretations of it. Your parallel between Muslims and Nazis is ridiculous to say the least.


TLDR WRITTEN IN RED NEAR THE BOTTOM

I disagree. Islam is an ideology. Ideologies are the basis for political agenda. Islam directly claims to be a political ideology. Not heard of Sharia or Caliphates no?

well an athiest can have an interpretation of the quran too. just as anyone who reads mein kampf can interpret it as they like. but people who believe in mein kampf are nazis. people who believe in the koran are muslims.

when reading surahs from the quran and comparing them to mein kampf I was struck by their similarities.

First off

Jews

they have a very similar narrative.

they both start off tame

(for the record all the quotes from the qur'an here are from quran.com and I have selected the "Sahih International" translation as they seem to be the most tame. I have selected the them specifically to prove the point that even when you translate the quran in the tamest way possible, that it is still barbaric. feel free to check out Sahih International's translations at quran.com you can see the alternative translations in the navigation options to the left of the window.)

mein kamp starts with hitler being neutral and unprejudiced against the jews and even criticizes the Viennese press for its anti-semitism

the quran says that jews and christians are both worthy of heaven as long as they believe in god and "last day".

For the Jew was still characterized for me by nothing but his religion, and therefore, on grounds of human tolerance, I maintained my rejection of religious attacks in this case as in others.

Consequently, the tone, particularly that of the Viennese anti-Semitic press, seemed to me unworthy of the cultural tradition of a great nation.
-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)


Indeed, those who believed and those who were Jews or Christians or Sabeans [before Prophet Muhammad] - those [among them] who believed in Allah and the Last Day and did righteousness - will have their reward with their Lord, and no fear will there be concerning them, nor will they grieve. (Surah 2:62)


although to be fair all of that is completely thrown out the window due to what is said prior in surah 2:8. I won't post the whole quote cause its quite large but it just goes on and on about how evil non muslims are.


anyway
but then they both criticize how the problem with jews is that despite the fact that they have a religion, they do not follow it. both the quran and mein kampf are very critical of jews who they claim are not paying attention to their faith and religious teachings.

Due to his own original special nature, the Jew cannot possess a religious institution, if for no other reason because he lacks idealism in any form, and hence belief in a hereafter is absolutely foreign to him.
And a religion in the Aryan sense cannot be imagined which lacks the conviction of survival after death in some form.
Indeed, the Talmud is not a book to prepare a man for the hereafter, but only for a practical and profitable life in this world.
-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)


Say, "O People of the Scripture, do you resent us except [for the fact] that we have believed in Allah and what was revealed to us and what was revealed before and because most of you are defiantly disobedient?"
Say, "Shall I inform you of [what is] worse than that as penalty from Allah ? [It is that of] those whom Allah has cursed and with whom He became angry and made of them apes and pigs and slaves of Taghut. Those are worse in position and further astray from the sound way."


after this both the quran and mein kampf get a bit carried away and as if calling them apes and pigs wasn't enough (and in the shakir translation of the quran they are also referred to as satanic) but both start basically calling them evil.

the personification of the devil as the symbol of all evil assumes the living shape of the Jew.-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)


And if only they upheld [the law of] the Torah, the Gospel, and what has been revealed to them from their Lord, they would have consumed [provision] from above them and from beneath their feet. Among them are a moderate community, but many of them - evil is that which they do.




racism and slavery.

now granted there is not direct racism in the quran itself. however the language the quran is written in is arabic. and in arabic the word for black person is abed, the word for slave is also abed...

The quran does allow slavery I don't think i need to post a surah on that as its pretty well known that the prophet had slaves himself.

and in Sharia law there are laws about slaves that go into detail.

but outside of the quran, in the hadiths and al-tabari there's bag loads of racism and then even more when you get into just general islamic scholars.

Noah prayed that the prophets and apostles would be descended from Shem and kings would be from Japheth. He prayed that the African’s color would change so that their descendants would be slaves to the Arabs and Turks. (al-tabari)


We brought them to the pit. Hell was their meeting place. We collected them there, black slaves, men of no descent. (Ishaq: 450)


oh and theres this lovely one which I've seen on a few forums of nervous black muslims asking to have some nice spin put on this hadith.
its essentially the prophet saying white people to heaven black people to hell.

Al-Tirmidhi Hadith 119: Narrated by AbudDarda`"Allah`s Messenger (peace be upon him) said: Allah created Adam when He had to create him and He struck his right shoulder and there emitted from it white offspring as if they were white ants. He struck his left shoulder and there emitted from it the black offspring as if they were charcoal. He then said (to those who had been emitted) from the right (shoulder): For Paradise and I do not mind. Then He said to those (who had been emitted) from his left shoulder: They are for Hell and I do not mind."


I won't even get started on the racism from islamic scholars and their own horrific views like Ibn Khaldun. cause that could go on and on.


Racial Supremacy

Islam perpetrates Arab supremacy
http://www.webcitation.org/query?url=http%3A%2F%2Fqa.sunnipath.com%2Fissue_view.asp%3FHD%3D7%26ID%3D9427%26CATE%3D1&date=2014-01-01

Nazism Promotes Aryan supremacy

There has also been
been much agreement between the islamic world and the nazis.
much has been already written about this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relations_between_Nazi_Germany_and_the_Arab_world#Hitler.27s_views_on_Islam_and_the_Arab_world


Genocide
both islam and nazism are fans of genocide

I don't think I need to post reference to nazi's genocidal legacy but I'll post a little surah to show the islamic similarity in thinking towards those who do not fit their ideological ideal.

And kill them wherever you overtake them and expel them from wherever they have expelled you, and fitnah is worse than killing. And do not fight them at al-Masjid al- Haram until they fight you there. But if they fight you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers.



Homosexuality

Nazis and and Muslims have issues with the gay.

It was of course illegal to be homosexual under Nazi germany but then again to be fair it was illegal in a lot of places, like the USA.
there was also gay genocide.
http://www.chgs.umn.edu/educational/homosexuals.html

then theres the qurans contribution.

Indeed, you approach men with desire, instead of women. Rather, you are a transgressing people.
(some stuff i've snipped here as its to do with the story of Lot & his wife which doesnt really make sense without a much larger quote of the story)
And We rained upon them a rain [of stones]. Then see how was the end of the criminals.


this is of course in reference to sodom and the angels who save Lot and his daughters from the homosexual men there.

the use of raining stones in the story and thus committing genocide on a whole city lead to the sharia law decree of stoning homosexuals to death. not to mention the fact that the 10 countries in the world where you can still be sentenced to death for being a homosexual are all muslim majority countries - http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/02/24/here-are-the-10-countries-where-homosexuality-may-be-punished-by-death/


Women & Pedophilia
Hitler was surprisingly popular with women and it has been argued that it was the women's vote that got Hitler into power as the Nazi party was pretty much the only party in Germany actually caring enough to direct campaigns to get female votes.

see this campaign poster which translates as “We women vote for List 2: the National Socialists.”



and indeed women were viewed as equal to men however they were viewed as having completely different duties.
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=eRDg5_Ay_PcC&pg=PT9&lpg=PT9&dq=hitler+on+equality+with+women&source=bl&ots=T14efxV696&sig=b9NKWjukxdMIja8pIQiZ4jRju7k&hl=en&sa=X&ei=oZjFVJmJIoK6UYb-gqAG&ved=0CF4Q6AEwDA#v=onepage&q=hitler%20on%20equality%20with%20women&f=false
even the apparent minority of women opposed some of the views were still loyal nazis. according to the above.

there was also laws against raping the enemy specifically with the Rassenschande laws.
Pedophilia and Rape were also forbidden in nazi germany
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/Nazi_deviancy_laws.html


So while Nazis on paper were relatively pro women and anti rape and anti pedophile islam seems to part with nazi ideology on this.


Islam is quite contrasting in its views towards sex and makes the nazis seem quite prudish. Indeed the mentions of Jannah being some sort of drunken orgy with kin seems to have more in common with viking myths of valhalla rather than the torah. but more on that later.

first off rape. islam pretty much all out promotes raping your own wife or just raping anyone you own or capture. in fact the context of the below quote was that the followers of the prophet were reluctant to rape the wives of the men they had captured as prisoner whilst infront of them. luckily allah allowed it so... like it's all good i guess >_>


And [also prohibited to you are all] married women except those your right hands possess. [This is] the decree of Allah upon you. And lawful to you are [all others] beyond these, [provided] that you seek them [in marriage] with [gifts from] your property, desiring chastity, not unlawful sexual intercourse. So for whatever you enjoy [of marriage] from them, give them their due compensation as an obligation. And there is no blame upon you for what you mutually agree to beyond the obligation. Indeed, Allah is ever Knowing and Wise. - surah 4:24


lets of course also throw in the domestic abuse element
But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. - surah 4:34


indeed the prophet married a 6 year old and had sex with her at the age of her being 9. the prophet was in his 50s.
the testimony of this is directly from the wife in question Aisha in Sahih Bukhari volume 5, book 58, number 234

but hey thats not all.

here's surah 76:19
There will circulate among them young boys made eternal. When you see them, you would think them [as beautiful as] scattered pearls. - Surah 76:19


this quote is describing the rewards of paradise. so apparently "young boys" who stay young forever is a reward? why's that?

indeed this theme of young beautiful boys being a reward is not mentioned merely once. but I won't go on more than I need to.

perhaps your thinking... ok what's wrong with young pretty boys being a gift in the after life?

well the key here is with the pearl reference. its to do with chastity and virginity.

the women in paradise are promised in an identical fashion to the little boys.


And [for them are] fair women with large, [beautiful] eyes, The likenesses of pearls well-protected - Surah 56:22-23


Now whilst having sex with a MAN in islam is a transgression sex with a BOY is not exactly cleared up in detail. the question would not even be asked if it wasn't for the repetition of surahs like the above that mention fresh little boys who are young forever as a tempting reward in paradise. certainly when looking at the practice of bacha bazi in places like Afghanistan perhaps sex with little boys is permissible in islam?
but perhaps its like drinking alcohol. forbidden in life, but rewarded in paradise after you die?


So.
Lets have a recap

Hate the Jews?
Islam: Yes
Nazism: Yes

Racist and Racial Supremacist?
Islam: Yes
Nazism: Yes

Slavery
Islam: Yes
Nazism: Yes

Genocide
Islam: Yes
Nazism: Yes

Hate the Gays?
Islam: Yes
Nazism: Yes

Pedophilia
Islam: Yes
Nazism: No

Rape
Islam: Yes
Nazism: No


So Islam seems to be tipping the scales on this one by beating nazis by two points with being pro-rape and pro-pedophile.


now I can hear the replies all ready.

not all muslims are like that
or
you need to read arabic to fully understand it. or you need the context. properly.
or
the majority of muslims don't do that.


well when we think of nazi germany we think of soldiers and death camps.

well guess what... the majority of nazis weren't doing that.
95% of the population was not serving in the army and was not committing those violent acts.
those acts were physically carried out by 5% of the nation. and thats just a over estimated vague guess considering in 1939 germany's population was 80mil and their military force was less than 5mil strong.

keep in mind also that the world didn't really take much issue with nazi germany until 1939. for six years the world was quite happy with it. i mean the olympics was held in nazi germany twice.

so don't give me the whole. "majority don't do that"

Like its a rule book for life that you follow.

so I'm sorry. if your a muslim and believe in the quran but then say you don't believe in those things, why do you say you believe the quran? why do you say your a muslim?

its like hearing someone whos a nazi say "im not racist"

infact i remember when i saw nick griffin on question time saying he wasn't racist.

is this what we do? we just all lie to eachother?

I mean if your a muslim maybe you should like... i dunno... check out what's in your own belief system that you claim allegiance to?

I mean if your voting for labour I'd assume you'd look into their manifesto?

otherwise how do you know what your voting for?


also don't give me crap about "have you studied islamic texts for most of your life?"
no... and neither have the majority of people who follow islam. thats the point.
if every muslim has to become an imam then there wouldn't be many muslims would there?
im doing no more research into the faith than your average muslim is.
and if the message i receive is a dangerous one then that is the same message muslims are getting.
also there is no muslim pope so every imams teachings is subjective to his own brand of islam.
where he can tell me what ever he likes to get me on side.
kinda like nick griffin would try to do. or indeed the kkk members that i've seen marching next to bloods and crips... >_>

but no one asks "have you read mein kampf in german?" before i say its bad.
no we all generally accept its bad without ever having read it.

so no the "your not educated enough" won't cut it. no im not looking to become an imam. there is limits to the research i will do. and i won't put in more than your average muslim. infact... to be fair... i probably put in more effort than most muslims i know.

and I won't ignore and look the other way when it comes to muslims who engage in these destructive practices just as i won't look the other way when it comes to nazis.

and also don't even bother try me with this whole... "catholics did bad stuff too"

if your best defense is to simply point the finger at other bad things as to distract from your own wrong doing then just save it. im not a child. neither are you. so lets stop pretending.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by SerLorasTyrell
oh yes because that sort of money will go far if you live somewhere in London, or if you have a few children, or pre existing debts, or sending more than one child to uni, or looking after an elderly relative.

Have some sympathy, it is clearly not as simple as you make out.


Don't go to university in London then? And go to university before you decide to have children. It's pretty simple really.

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