How much damage have I caused?

Without sounding to dubious I took something that contains a substance that I'm not allowed to discuss here. I won't name the substance so that my post doesn't get removed, although it would help if I could name the substance so that someone can give me a better answer.

It all started off well, I saw some good lean muscle gains without gaining any fat. My BF was dropping very rapidly and my strength was increasing rapidly. I was almost done taking the substance that I was taking, however typically things went down hill very quickly.

I started getting terrible headaches, very low libido, nose bleeds, aggressive outbursts and of course the final straw; shrinkage of my balls. At this point I ended my cycle there and then. I got straight onto another substance which is supposed to help me recover my levels and keep my gains. I've been on this substance for as long as my cycle was and I'm still having the following problems:

- I still can't get hard, well sometimes I can but it takes a lot, it use to be a case of anything would set me off.

- I'm extremely depressed and anxious all the time. I also still get random outbursts of uncontrollable anger. Although I was suffering from mild depression and anxiety to begin with, they've just gone to an extreme level.

- Another mental problem that I've noticed is that I'm constantly paranoid and always feel like everyone's plotting something against me, I never use to be this type of person. I even get so paranoid that I have pretty intense delusions.

I fear the damage caused to me is irreversible, I'm most concerned about my sex drive, I'm not going to be on HRT therapy for the rest of my life, not a chance, I'd rather die.

I'm not overly concerned about the mental issues I'm facing as they don't seem as big of a concern as my sex drive.

You can call me stupid all you like but it won't change the past. I regret my actions but it's a bit late to try and undo everything now.

Thanks in advance for any help.

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Reply 1

XZX

Original post by naxiv

Whats the substance?

Am I allowed to say? I'm not sure what the rules are on this forum?

Reply 2

illusionz

Original post by XZX

Say whatever you like. A troll wouldn't go to such extents, if I was a troll I'd post controversial posts.

Check my other posts, I don't have a history of being a troll, so if you have nothing use to contribute then GTFO!

If you actually took gear you would know there are much more sensible places to ask this question than a forum full of 130 lbs sexually frustrated virgins trying to get 'big'.

Reply 3

XZX

Original post by illusionz

If you actually took gear you would know there are much more sensible places to ask this question than a forum full of 130 lbs sexually frustrated virgins trying to get 'big'.

Not true, I've tried other places but get flamed to shiit because of my age. This is a place full of people my own age.

Reply 4

naxiv

Yes you are
Just to make sure i answer your question properly

Original post by XZX

Am I allowed to say? I'm not sure what the rules are on this forum?

Reply 5

XZX

Original post by naxiv

Yes you are
Just to make sure i answer your question properly

I was running a heavy amount of Oxandrolone, it's supposed to be one of the weakest steroids around. However, I don't have that much faith of any medical substance that comes from a non-pharmaceutical company. I chanced it and got off to a flying start only to fall.

Reply 6

Scoobiedoobiedo

Original post by XZX

Anavar only? How much do you already know? As I don't want to sound patronising. It will have shut you down and without running a test base you're left with zero test, hence sexual sides. Guessing you're running PCT? Takes a while to get back to normal, how long and how much it sucks varies from person to person, you'll bounce back eventually though.

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Reply 7

XZX

Original post by Scoobiedoobiedo

Yeah, it was supposed to be a very mild steroid.

I'm currently running Arimidex and don't want come off it as I feel like I need to stay on it for a long time to recover.

I've heard of horror stories where some people never recover and spend the rest of their lives on HRT.

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 8

Scoobiedoobiedo

Adex does nothing for PCT/recovery, you need some clomid and nolva. Go on ukmuscle and read the PCT guide, it's a sticky in the testosterone forum. On phone so can't link it.

How long have you been off?

Now you see why lots of people just stay on... You'll recover eventually.

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Reply 9

XZX

Original post by Scoobiedoobiedo

I've seen it but I've seen other things on other forums that calls this sticky 'bro science' and contradicts everything it says. So I believed the other forums and went for Adex. I probably should have gone for Nolva.

I've been off almost 8 weeks, I just can't see me recovering, the past 2 months have been grim and aren't getting any better.

Reply 10

abbasahmed786

Did you take Anavar by any chance?

Reply 11

XZX

Original post by abbasahmed786

Did you take Anavar by any chance?

How did you guess? Did you see the above posts where I mentioned taking Anavar by any chance?

Reply 12

Flying Cookie

Sad to read this :indiff:

How come out of several mental concerns, behavioral changes, shrinking balls, your biggest worry is sex drive? That's a whole collection of problems, anyway I hope you find the way back. Hormones are very sensitive things. Are you sure you can't get GP help? You can't be the only one in this situation.

Reply 13

XZX

Original post by Flying Cookie

Sad to read this :indiff:

Because I'm 21, my sex drive is the most important thing for me to worry about at my age. If I hadn't of lost my sex drive or my balls hadn't of shrunk then I'd have called it a relatively successful cycle, the behavioral and mental changes are kind of expected when playing around with stuff like Anavar. The headaches were probably from too much dehydration and the nose bleeds were probably from an increased blood pressure if I had to guess, so it's not like they're concerns as they're expected.

I'm not sure what help the GP would be to honest and I'd rather not. If things don't get better soon then I'll probably have to visit the GP.

Reply 14

Angry cucumber

I'm allowing this to stay up purely to aid this guy into where he can get some good advice. Any trolling or off topic posts will be removed and punished accordingly. Steroid usage is not condoned on this forum and this thread is testiment to that.

Reply 15

BKS

CBA reading all replies cause too early but you can (and should) get proper medical advice. I know it's easy to be seriously sceptical but things are getting better than they were even a few years ago. I'm not saying there's not knowledgeable people on the internet but people using PIEDs just depending on this for info isn't ideal. It might be you take some internet advice, some medical advice and compare then decide what to do.

The best practice is harm reduction- ie help you get better. You might find some GPs won't engage with you at all unless you promise not to do it again, whether you mean that or not is a different story. In theory in the NHS has no problem with providing you with blood tests and advice when you are using but finding a GP comfortable and confident enough to do that is rare. Some GPs are old ****s but you should be able to find one who'll try to help to some extent.

If you want to see you GP and want a stick to encourage them with then it will be NICE guideline though off the top of my head I can't remember how good they are. NICE were captains of the PIEDs don't work team, they are past that but I'm not sure how far. If you find them difficult to read but want to know I can check it later.

As an alternative you can try your local needle exchange. They increasingly have PIED workers who do really know their ****. More and more have clinical provision to offer blood tests etc. and that doctor/nurse would be a very good person to speak to in this situation- they're as expert as you will get locally. I know needle exchanges can sound like a bad idea cause heroin users but a lot now have majority PIED users as people accessing them and they aren't like most people wouldn't imagine.

But because of the needle exchange stereotype some places do have PIED clinics elsewhere- like my GP surgery has one staffed by the needle exchange. But the needle exchange will people able to point you towards this.

Reply 16

Scoobiedoobiedo

Original post by XZX

The whole PCT concept is pretty "bro science" in and of its self, you aren't going to get many/any medical studies looking at the best way to deliberately shut down natural testosterone production for an extended period of time, and then recover it through off label self administered prescription drug use.

Most if not all the people I've seen recommend Arimidex for PCT either don't PCT themselves as they cruise, or look like they don't even lift despite using gear. Use the "tried and trusted" (if there is such a thing), method of blasting HCG, clomid and nolva, although you're supposed to start within a few weeks (days for oral only) of coming off, not two months later, so not sure how you will respond. PCT and get some blood work done. Worst comes to the worst you'll be on TRT forever.

The lessons to learn here are:
A) Don't touch gear unless you're willing (if required) to be on TRT for life and have weekly injections.
B) Don't do oral only as it's stupid and you'll end up with the testosterone level of a prepubescent girl. If you're scared of needles then don't touch gear in the first place.
C) If you are going to come off then follow proper PCT, with proper drugs, doses and timings.
D) Most importantly, don't ignore A, B and C.

Reply 17

BKS

Check cause bored at work. I think I imagined GP guidance from NICE. There was enough excitement about any mention that I must have assumed there’s more but it’s just in the needle exchange guidance (PH52, recommendation 10) which says advice and injecting supply should be provided. Though logically this means the NHS approves giving advice so anyone qualified can offer it and not expect any problems. It is the Royal College of GPs curriculum as of August, PIEDs are included under ‘care of people who misuse drugs and alcohol’ which means they should have some knowledge, should be very much the operative word especially given it’s recent. It means the expectation is they would provide care for any complications resulting from PIED use. Like they wouldn’t ignore a K user having bladder problems or someone who’s having mental health problem from skunk so they can’t ignore you/refuse you treatment. Though it may be beyond their knowledge so an endo referral might be the best bet.

Reply 18

RollerBall

Original post by BKS

Based on my experiences of GPs, I wouldn't trust them to programme PCT for my dog, never mind me. None should refuse to help him now, but most will refuse help before. A buddy of mine went to see his GP to see if he would monitor him during his cycle (bloods, BP, etc) but he only would if he paid privately because hormone tests are expensive, which in practice I agree with.

They're good for blood tests and if you need to be on TRT for life but, like you said, I'd trust the guys at the needle exchange far more. You won't be able to get hormones checked there though, just basic bloods and lipids and they also limit you from getting bled more than once every six months. If you're this ****ed though I reckon they'd send you to a GP who would.

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Reply 19

BKS

Original post by RollerBall

I agree, I'm on testosterone for legit medical reasons and my GP (I've had a few) has always had to send my blood results to a specialist because they know **** all. The NHS has been historically **** at PIEDs and in theory things are now better but theory and change actually happening within the NHS are two very different things. Give it 10 years and things will be much better. But for now, even getting a blood test off your GP without interpretation is better than nothing and there are some good folk out there so you might luck out.

The PIED clinic at my GPs did a submission to NICE (evidence of good practice sharing?) which costs blood tests at £10-30 which I guess could add up.

I don't think there is a standard on what needle exchanges will offer. There's no detail in official guidance so it's up to the provider. All drug treatment stuff is commissioned an there's a hell of a lot of different providers in the sector. Some are really on it with PIEDs, some are still arguing that PIEDs aren't the responsibility of drug services (though anyone sensible has now accepted whilst it's not a perfect fit, drug services are the most appropriate). The drug budget isn't ring fenced any more so councils can put very different amounts into drug treatment, if things need to be tight then you'll restrict your offer to PIED users before opiate/crack users. Some councils contracts will have specific mention of what they want for PIED users, some have no interest at all, which will impact what providers focus on for keeping their funder happy.

In OPs case they will probably offer some advice for now with the intention of harm reduction ASAP but will encourage going to a GP. If he refuses to go to his GP they may go further in offering help.