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Should the UK take steps to ensure there is never an Islamic-majority UK population?

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Not a hard choice. Taking over another land is reprehensible, it would result in an ethno-cultural crisis for the affected party, the death of a nation. Whether it's through overt tactics or covert invasion tactics, the end result is in unison. The former is worse as it dissalows a people to defend themselves, or, realize they're actually being stripped of their entire cultural, ancestral legacy.

When we speak in matters of the basis requirements of people, the basic wiring of mans human nature to sustain and retain his castle, A is only ever the correct answer. Britain must retain it's very dignity to exist on planet earth at least.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Thechillyone
Yes, of course noone likes adultery but I don't know many people who would be willing to kill or lash someone for it! Its so excessive! Also, if God wants the best for us then why doesn't he just prevent anyone from ever doing it ? I mean its not exactly freewill already if youre going to possibly going to get punished in this life and then for another excessively long time in the afterlife so he might aswell just prevent it?

Do I though ? How can God ( providing he exists) expect me to believe that when he has given no proof of his existence or anything else about the 'right' religion?

See thats exactly my point...you believe because you believe is usually the answer and its just not enough! If there is a God then punishing us for not believing something that has zero proof would be cruel. I mean what are we to him then ? A game where everyone whos lucky enough to have parents who believed in him gets to go to paradise forever and everyone else gets the most disgusting punishments ive ever heard of for eternity? Thats just cruel.

Im fluent in Arabic. Understanding it is of course hard even if you can speak arabic but Ive read alot of it and understood it

Good luck with your exams btw:smile:


I'm sure there are quite a few Muslims who would agree with lashings or the death penalty for adulterers. I don't believe it's excessive. Like I said, if you're a good, honest person then you shouldn't fear it. Can you imagine living in a place where you can almost guarantee your partner wouldn't cheat on you? If God prevented everyone from doing bad things what would be the point in putting us on this earth? If we were all good and decent people shouldn't we all be in paradise?
The concept of free will is quite a tricky one in Islam. Yes we believe in qadr but we still have a choice when it comes to our actions. No one is physically stopping us from doing anything.

If God gave proof of his existence like actually showing himself to us, then there wouldn't be a single atheist or agnostic in the world. It would defeat the purpose of the test. The reason why we were all put here in the first place.

Why is it not enough? Alhamdulilah I have a strong enough faith so it is enough for me and I do not question things anymore. It is also because there is a verse in the Quran that tells us not to question excessively, as it can lead to disbelief. And the Quran is all the proof you need. Imagine if God put us all in hell. Wouldn't we think that it is unfair and ask Him why weren't we at least given a chance? This world is the chance he has given us.
There might be some people who grow up in a Muslim household, but even if you don't, you still know and are aware that Islam exists (unless you live under a rock or something), so you don't have an excuse to say you've never heard of it.

Sorry if I haven't been able to answer your questions properly. I don't have a lot of knowledge like others :colondollar:

Ah I wish I could speak Arabic. You're so lucky.

Thank you. I've finally finished my January exams lol. Good luck to you too if you have any :smile:
Original post by HAnwar
I'm sure there are quite a few Muslims who would agree with lashings or the death penalty for adulterers. I don't believe it's excessive. Like I said, if you're a good, honest person then you shouldn't fear it. Can you imagine living in a place where you can almost guarantee your partner wouldn't cheat on you? If God prevented everyone from doing bad things what would be the point in putting us on this earth? If we were all good and decent people shouldn't we all be in paradise?
The concept of free will is quite a tricky one in Islam. Yes we believe in qadr but we still have a choice when it comes to our actions. No one is physically stopping us from doing anything.

If God gave proof of his existence like actually showing himself to us, then there wouldn't be a single atheist or agnostic in the world. It would defeat the purpose of the test. The reason why we were all put here in the first place.

Why is it not enough? Alhamdulilah I have a strong enough faith so it is enough for me and I do not question things anymore. It is also because there is a verse in the Quran that tells us not to question excessively, as it can lead to disbelief. And the Quran is all the proof you need. Imagine if God put us all in hell. Wouldn't we think that it is unfair and ask Him why weren't we at least given a chance? This world is the chance he has given us.
There might be some people who grow up in a Muslim household, but even if you don't, you still know and are aware that Islam exists (unless you live under a rock or something), so you don't have an excuse to say you've never heard of it.

Sorry if I haven't been able to answer your questions properly. I don't have a lot of knowledge like others :colondollar:

Ah I wish I could speak Arabic. You're so lucky.

Thank you. I've finally finished my January exams lol. Good luck to you too if you have any :smile:


But that is only because that is what Islam tells them is right. Stop and think about it objectively.....death for adultery? Or being born gay? Or having doubts and becoming apostate ? Do you really want to live somewhere you are forced to think and speak as other people think you should?

'Noone is physically stopping us from doing anything' not true. I'd be in big trouble if I said I'm an apostate in a Sharia state.

But why is there a need for a test? There is enough space in paradise for everyone isn't there? God can make everyone happy so easily why insist on dragging people through hell on earth just to 'prove' some kind of lyalty to him? Afterall he has created humans with all their faults when he could have just created us as perfect godworshipping humans if thats what he wants us to be? Yet he insists on making us fight,kill and hate each other because he has not made it clear whether he exists or what exactly he wants us to do to worship him. How can you not see the cruelty in this?

No, it's fine Im actually happy that we're having a nice debate without any aggression or anything like that...nice change from what you usually see :smile:

Ive a few left so i should really be revising haha but thanks and good luck for your results:wink:
Original post by HAnwar
As a Muslim I believe the Quran is nothing but the truth so

and here we have the route of the problem......
A Muslim majority would result in the destruction of any country that suffers this grim fate. I advocate banning all immigration from Muslim countries, and any stance against Islam is common sense and an act of self preservation.
Original post by Thechillyone
But that is only because that is what Islam tells them is right. Stop and think about it objectively.....death for adultery? Or being born gay? Or having doubts and becoming apostate ? Do you really want to live somewhere you are forced to think and speak as other people think you should?

'Noone is physically stopping us from doing anything' not true. I'd be in big trouble if I said I'm an apostate in a Sharia state.

But why is there a need for a test? There is enough space in paradise for everyone isn't there? God can make everyone happy so easily why insist on dragging people through hell on earth just to 'prove' some kind of lyalty to him? Afterall he has created humans with all their faults when he could have just created us as perfect godworshipping humans if thats what he wants us to be? Yet he insists on making us fight,kill and hate each other because he has not made it clear whether he exists or what exactly he wants us to do to worship him. How can you not see the cruelty in this?

No, it's fine Im actually happy that we're having a nice debate without any aggression or anything like that...nice change from what you usually see :smile:

Ive a few left so i should really be revising haha but thanks and good luck for your results:wink:


Sorry I keep forgetting to reply lol :colondollar: I get quoted a lot and sometimes forget the old ones lol. If I don't reply for a while then just VM or PM me :smile:

No one is forcing me to think like this. Even if I became a non Muslim now I would still be heavily against adultery and homosexuality. We don't believe people are born gay but rather it is a choice.

Yeah under a Sharia country there would be consequences. But that hasn't stopped people from carrying out haram actions in secret.

As a Muslim I'm sure you know the story of Adam and Eve, how they ate from the forbidden tree and Allah sent them down on earth from heaven. And how Iblees refused to prostrate to Adam (AS) and was thrown out of paradise, and has made it his duty to lead others with him to hell. Allah created this test to see who would follow him or who would follow Iblees.
What faults? We carry out fights and murder ourselves. How can we blame God for this? He has sent the Prophet (SAW) and the Quran as a guidance. Remember, this life was not made easy for us. It's not going to be crysyal clear for us which is why it is our duty to research into Islam and the sunnah. I don't see cruelty in this because I have strong imaan Alhamdulilah.

I know right lol. You're one of the few people I reply to because you don't come across as agressive or insulting.

Thanks I hope you do well in them :smile: Study hard!
Original post by billydisco
and here we have the route of the problem......


Tough luck.
Personally I would feel safer if the country was ruled by people who are doing it for God, and not for their own selfish. A leader is much less likely to deceive his people if he fears God.
Original post by ImNotMe
Personally I would feel safer if the country was ruled by people who are doing it for God, and not for their own selfish. A leader is much less likely to deceive his people if he fears God.


Successful leaders rarely believe in a God, but they tend to keep the populace as religious as possible. As Machiavelli notes, a truly great prince can never be conventionally religious himself, but he should make his people religious if he can.

Just look at the Saudi royal family. That's machiavellianism in action right there.
Original post by Dima-Blackburn
Successful leaders rarely believe in a God, but they tend to keep the populace as religious as possible. As Machiavelli notes, a truly great prince can never be conventionally religious himself, but he should make his people religious if he can.

Just look at the Saudi royal family. That's machiavellianism in action right there.


If somebody is deceitful; knowing God is witnessing his deceit; you can safely assume he doesn't fear God...making him not religious after all.
Original post by ImNotMe
Personally I would feel safer if the country was ruled by people who are doing it for God, and not for their own selfish. A leader is much less likely to deceive his people if he fears God.

You reckon Syrian citizens are safe from ISIS then?
Reply 171
Obviously looking at Pew attitidue surveys the UK (or many majority Islamic states) it would be strange if UK leaders consciously wanted the country to become majority Islamic.

The difficulty countries like the UK have is that the dominant ideology is modern liberalism. The guiding principle is non-discrimination or judgment. This means the UK can't make self/non-self distinctions and take any measures that would prevent this outcome.

Of course, if the attitude surveys are any guide then a majority islamic state will be far less liberal/progressive than the UK is at present. As Razib Khan reports:

As you can see, Western European Muslims are much more conservative than the general population. Or, more accurately they’re much more reactionary and culturally alien. The reality is that the status quo in Western Europe is toward acceptance of homosexuality without the sort of debates we have in the United States. Interestingly you can’t even calculate a real ratio for British Muslims to the general public, not one British Muslim surveyed would admit to homosexuality being morally acceptable.


http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/12/admissions-of-illiberalism/
Reply 172
At the rate at which white benefit scroungers breed I don't think it's a possibility


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Original post by HAnwar
Sorry I keep forgetting to reply lol :colondollar: I get quoted a lot and sometimes forget the old ones lol. If I don't reply for a while then just VM or PM me :smile:

No one is forcing me to think like this. Even if I became a non Muslim now I would still be heavily against adultery and homosexuality. We don't believe people are born gay but rather it is a choice.

Yeah under a Sharia country there would be consequences. But that hasn't stopped people from carrying out haram actions in secret.

As a Muslim I'm sure you know the story of Adam and Eve, how they ate from the forbidden tree and Allah sent them down on earth from heaven. And how Iblees refused to prostrate to Adam (AS) and was thrown out of paradise, and has made it his duty to lead others with him to hell. Allah created this test to see who would follow him or who would follow Iblees.
What faults? We carry out fights and murder ourselves. How can we blame God for this? He has sent the Prophet (SAW) and the Quran as a guidance. Remember, this life was not made easy for us. It's not going to be crysyal clear for us which is why it is our duty to research into Islam and the sunnah. I don't see cruelty in this because I have strong imaan Alhamdulilah.

I know right lol. You're one of the few people I reply to because you don't come across as agressive or insulting.

Thanks I hope you do well in them :smile: Study hard!


Nono don't worry after all we all have a life outsude TSR haha:smile:

Scientifically that's not right though. It is either the environment youve grown up in and/or genes that make you gay. The first one obviously means you would 'turn' gay after birth but it is still not a choice since it has to do with someone subconciously picking behaviour up from its surroundings as a child. HOWEVER considering the cases where people from strictly religious households/countries have come out gay I lean more towards the fact that genetics play a much larger part but thats just my personal opinion. In Islam homosexuality is considered a choice but on account of what proof? You're just expected to believe it like everything else and it bothers me having to narrow myself to one viewpoint only without any allowance to consider things from a different perspective. It's like being a horse with blinders.

Heard it many times haha:smile: God created us....considering he is almighty he could have made us flawless and put us in paradise but instead he chose to create us with the very flaws that he punishes us for! This is exactly what is cruel....making us chase something that he could just give us easily! Why not reveal himself ? Because there would be no nonbelievers? Why is that a bad thing if this is ultimately what god wants?

I can be a bit abrasive sometimes but that's only when my opposite is being just as aggressive :smile: Quite enjoy having a nice debate about it with noone getting offended get to understand a different mindset properly! And thanks but yeah I dont think i did well at all haha...never pick engineering!
Original post by Thechillyone
Nono don't worry after all we all have a life outsude TSR haha:smile:

Scientifically that's not right though. It is either the environment youve grown up in and/or genes that make you gay. The first one obviously means you would 'turn' gay after birth but it is still not a choice since it has to do with someone subconciously picking behaviour up from its surroundings as a child. HOWEVER considering the cases where people from strictly religious households/countries have come out gay I lean more towards the fact that genetics play a much larger part but thats just my personal opinion. In Islam homosexuality is considered a choice but on account of what proof? You're just expected to believe it like everything else and it bothers me having to narrow myself to one viewpoint only without any allowance to consider things from a different perspective. It's like being a horse with blinders.

Heard it many times haha:smile: God created us....considering he is almighty he could have made us flawless and put us in paradise but instead he chose to create us with the very flaws that he punishes us for! This is exactly what is cruel....making us chase something that he could just give us easily! Why not reveal himself ? Because there would be no nonbelievers? Why is that a bad thing if this is ultimately what god wants?

I can be a bit abrasive sometimes but that's only when my opposite is being just as aggressive :smile: Quite enjoy having a nice debate about it with noone getting offended get to understand a different mindset properly! And thanks but yeah I dont think i did well at all haha...never pick engineering!


Unfortunately Science isn't always right.
Allah (SWT) says:
"We do not impose on any soul a duty except to the extent of its ability." (Qur'an 6:152)
"No burden do We place on any soul, but that which it can bear." (Qur'an 7:142)
Allah is the most just. He would not create you gay and then say it is a sin and punish you for it.
Also in the Quran, there are numerous times where Allah says he has created us from pairs-males and females. How else would mankind reproduce?

You ask a lot of questions haha. It'd be best if you take a look at this website. It may help answer your question better than I can-
http://islamqa.info/en/123973
What flaws are you talking about? Don't you think we have control over our actions?
Remember the Prophet (SAW) warned us with excessive questioning-
“What I have forbidden you, stay away from. What I have ordered you [to do], do as much of it as you can. Verily, the people before you were destroyed only because of their excessive questioning and their disagreeing with their Prophets.'' (Recorded by Al-Bukhari and Muslim)

Yeah I know what you mean lol. I feel the same.
Ah I'm sure you did, don't worry. Engineering's quite cool. I wish I was clever enough to study it :tongue:
I voted yes.

Please hear me out; I'm not racist.

Firstly, let's deal with the race issue. This isn't anything to do with race. This is to do with religious belief. Muslims are not a race. If the vast majority of Muslims in Britain were white I'de think exactly the same of them since they would have the same beliefs - that of Islam.

Now, I'm a secularist. I want seperation of church an state. We also live in a democracy, I personally don't like democracy very much but it won't go away anytime soon and so this means that Muslims can vote a party of their favour in and use their shared religious ideology to biased create systems to aid them and punish others.

Ok, well why is an Islamic ideology worse than a conservative, or a UKIP, or a Labour ideology?

Well, there's no innate difference. Ideologies are only bad based on the reasoning behind them and the results that they cause in the long-run. I think an Islamic ideology would be far worse for our country than most others and thus I would agree to the government's actively encouraging it to not gain a majority favour. This is the same reasoning as to why th government doesn't encourage minority parties such as the BNP. It is not racial but societal and ideological.

Also note that encourage =/= force. I would never force people to not be allowed to belief something. However, that doesn't not mean I wouldn't retract the vote from some people based on their beliefs.
Original post by HAnwar
Unfortunately Science isn't always right.
Allah (SWT) says:
"We do not impose on any soul a duty except to the extent of its ability." (Qur'an 6:152)
"No burden do We place on any soul, but that which it can bear." (Qur'an 7:142)
Allah is the most just. He would not create you gay and then say it is a sin and punish you for it.
Also in the Quran, there are numerous times where Allah says he has created us from pairs-males and females. How else would mankind reproduce?

You ask a lot of questions haha. It'd be best if you take a look at this website. It may help answer your question better than I can-
http://islamqa.info/en/123973
What flaws are you talking about? Don't you think we have control over our actions?
Remember the Prophet (SAW) warned us with excessive questioning-
“What I have forbidden you, stay away from. What I have ordered you [to do], do as much of it as you can. Verily, the people before you were destroyed only because of their excessive questioning and their disagreeing with their Prophets.'' (Recorded by Al-Bukhari and Muslim)

Yeah I know what you mean lol. I feel the same.
Ah I'm sure you did, don't worry. Engineering's quite cool. I wish I was clever enough to study it :tongue:


Not always of course but it has been proven to be right on multiple occasions....I mean we now have cars,planes,internet,MRI, Defillbrators etc. these are all things we have gained from Science. This is why I'm more inclined to believe a scientist than a aleem.

Haha I'm sorry I know. But this is how I am I like to know why I am doing what I am doing and that is something I never felt was answered in religion. Doesn't this strike you as odd? If Islam has all the answers surely asking more questions should lead you closer and closer to Islam ? Ive always felt like the hellfire is described in such graphic detail in the Quran because it keeps people scared....scared of thinking independently. It barrs you from doing the most basic thing independently...thinking. I remember when I waa young I was scared to even think about anything questioning the Quran,Sunnah or Ahadith because I thought I'd get me to hellfire. In fact its so effective even now sometimes I find myself slightly uneasy saying or thinking something particularly controversial. Why would you have to keep your followers so scared apart from if youre worried theyll leave if they actually thiught and discussed their religion in depth.

Btw I'm sorry I get carried away with this because it's a really personal issue to me. Leaving Islam is really not easy at all and sometimes I get frustrated because of that.

Haha noone is truly clever enough for it. Half of my lectures are just a myth to me:smile:
Reply 177
Original post by Dexa
I'm not a muslim but you OP are an Islamophobe and a disgrace to the principles and morals our country stands for.


Bla bla bla. Our country stands for
What you say it stands for. Surely it standard for what other people are
Saying including not to be diversified into oblivion.



Posted from TSR Mobile
(edited 9 years ago)
I would ban British people from emigrating.
Reply 179
Original post by perfectsymbology
It's like that anti-muslim protest in Dresden when the city's muslim population is only 0.1%. Ridiculous.


Sure, but you can understand the sentiment and desire to avoid the outcomes seen under Islamic rule. As Razib Khan comments on surveys of Islamic attitudes, perhaps with tongue in cheek :smile:

And predictably, Diasporic communities are considerably more liberal. Only 36 percent of British Muslims age 16-24 believe that apostates should be killed! So the crazy that is Pakistan can be nicely moderated with some civilized influence.


http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/12/admissions-of-illiberalism/

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