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How are we supposed to refer to black people?
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Original post by Balloon Baboon
Okay.
The word basically refers to black people. And the point I am making is that it's okay for black people to use that word disparagingly which each other. But if I used it towards a black person, It wouldn't be held well. Why? Because I'm not black? it's still the same word meaning the same thing but because I myself aren't black Its held in a different light.
The word basically refers to black people. And the point I am making is that it's okay for black people to use that word disparagingly which each other. But if I used it towards a black person, It wouldn't be held well. Why? Because I'm not black? it's still the same word meaning the same thing but because I myself aren't black Its held in a different light.
Please review your use of disparaging. It means insulting..
I was expecting you to come out with this frankly silly comment.
90s African American gangster rap culture is not an efficient umbrella term for Black culture.
African American gangster rap culture isn't even an efficient umbrella term for Rap culture. That word is still offensive in many, many traditionally afro-caribbean communities and there is a marked shift away from using that word in American rap.
You're using the minority to voice a majority rule to prove a point and it doesn't work.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Eveiebaby
Please review your use of disparaging. It means insulting..
I was expecting you to come out with this frankly silly comment.
a)African American gangster rap culture is not an efficient umbrella term for Black culture. African American gangster rap culture isn't even an efficient umbrella term for Rap culture. That word is still offensive in many, many traditionally "afro-caribbean communities".
You're using the minority to voice a majority rule to prove a point,
I was expecting you to come out with this frankly silly comment.
a)African American gangster rap culture is not an efficient umbrella term for Black culture. African American gangster rap culture isn't even an efficient umbrella term for Rap culture. That word is still offensive in many, many traditionally "afro-caribbean communities".
You're using the minority to voice a majority rule to prove a point,
I know what the word means and that was my point. The word is exactly the same no matter who says it. But different rules apply today.
I also never mentioned anything to do with rap culture. It happens in all walks of life not just on TV. I've heard it myself many times.
I've been using 'person of colour' recently, but I don't know if that's the politically correct term to use or not. Someone told me off for using 'coloured person' last year, I think I was drunk at the time so I had just reached for what I'd been told what the politically correct term when I was a child.
It is useful to have a word for it. If you're talking about Lewis Hamilton to someone who doesn't know F1 drivers names, just their photos, it's much easier to describe the colour of his skin as his defining feature. Similarly Robert Kubica has a big nose, Fernando Alonso has those eyebrows, Kimi Raikkonen never smiles, Nico Rosberg looks like a male Britney Spears...
It is useful to have a word for it. If you're talking about Lewis Hamilton to someone who doesn't know F1 drivers names, just their photos, it's much easier to describe the colour of his skin as his defining feature. Similarly Robert Kubica has a big nose, Fernando Alonso has those eyebrows, Kimi Raikkonen never smiles, Nico Rosberg looks like a male Britney Spears...
Original post by Blue_Mason
I am well aware of the jim crow segretists era, and also the apartied.
It was Europeans who created and associated such horrible negatives with being black.
Tbh I am not a fan of the causual uses of such racial labels,but they're times when I am forced to use them openly.
Negro means black in Spanish.
People on this site just choose to ignore the history and expect you to stop complaint and deal with it.
It was Europeans who created and associated such horrible negatives with being black.
Tbh I am not a fan of the causual uses of such racial labels,but they're times when I am forced to use them openly.
Negro means black in Spanish.
People on this site just choose to ignore the history and expect you to stop complaint and deal with it.
I know that Negro means black in Spanish, but when used to describe a person, it comes with imperialist/slavery connotations.
I'm not offended about discussing them, but I am offended when people through ignorance, throw around these terms so flippantly.
Saying 'black' is fine,
Personally I wasn't really bothered by what BCumberbatch said because fundamentally he was trying to highlight a problem which black actor/actresses face (In order to solve the issue??)
Howeeever I think the reason some people got stressed is because back in the days of segregation particularly in America people were normally split into 'white' and 'coloured' so I think this is why that particular term now has a negative connotation
'Blacks' is also not good because it lumps everyone together and makes a generalisation, the same applies for 'Whites' (and all other races too)
Personally I wasn't really bothered by what BCumberbatch said because fundamentally he was trying to highlight a problem which black actor/actresses face (In order to solve the issue??)
Howeeever I think the reason some people got stressed is because back in the days of segregation particularly in America people were normally split into 'white' and 'coloured' so I think this is why that particular term now has a negative connotation
'Blacks' is also not good because it lumps everyone together and makes a generalisation, the same applies for 'Whites' (and all other races too)
Just say black people. Please don't use 'coloured' *cringe* xD
Too bawse for you, sir.
Too bawse for you, sir.
Original post by minimarshmallow
I've been using 'person of colour' recently, but I don't know if that's the politically correct term to use or not. Someone told me off for using 'coloured person' last year, I think I was drunk at the time so I had just reached for what I'd been told what the politically correct term when I was a child.
It is useful to have a word for it. If you're talking about Lewis Hamilton to someone who doesn't know F1 drivers names, just their photos, it's much easier to describe the colour of his skin as his defining feature. Similarly Robert Kubica has a big nose, Fernando Alonso has those eyebrows, Kimi Raikkonen never smiles, Nico Rosberg looks like a male Britney Spears...
It is useful to have a word for it. If you're talking about Lewis Hamilton to someone who doesn't know F1 drivers names, just their photos, it's much easier to describe the colour of his skin as his defining feature. Similarly Robert Kubica has a big nose, Fernando Alonso has those eyebrows, Kimi Raikkonen never smiles, Nico Rosberg looks like a male Britney Spears...
I think that if there's any issue and to be honest I am nitpicking, but what if all of the F1 drivers were black. What would you do then?
And FYI - Lewis Hamilton is Mixed race.......
Original post by minimarshmallow
It is useful to have a word for it. If you're talking about Lewis Hamilton to someone who doesn't know F1 drivers names, just their photos, it's much easier to describe the colour of his skin as his defining feature. Similarly Robert Kubica has a big nose, Fernando Alonso has those eyebrows, Kimi Raikkonen never smiles, Nico Rosberg looks like a male Britney Spears...
It is useful to have a word for it. If you're talking about Lewis Hamilton to someone who doesn't know F1 drivers names, just their photos, it's much easier to describe the colour of his skin as his defining feature. Similarly Robert Kubica has a big nose, Fernando Alonso has those eyebrows, Kimi Raikkonen never smiles, Nico Rosberg looks like a male Britney Spears...
Kubica has a big nose, Alonso has big eye brows, Kimi looks miserable and Britney has the lovely hair... Lewis is the guy with black skin... Not the guy with shiny teeth, diamond earrings, shaved eyebrows, afro... you see how needless it is?
Original post by RFUR1
Do not refer to black people as 'coloured', 'negro' or 'blacks'. Those terms are seen as being derogatory.
I'm black and I don't find those terms derogatory at all. Neither do any of my family/black friends so idk which side you're getting that from.....
Tbh I don't see the big deal, the only people complaining are oversensitive little adult-children who have nothing better to do in life imo. It really makes no difference at all....besides nobody really says it UNLESS they're trying super hard to be PC so that makes this supposed outrage even less outrageous
I don't know if he was talking about black actors in particular, or non-white actors, but unless he was talking solely about black actors, I'm not sure why anyone would prefer he used the term "black" to refer to a variety of ethnicities. For one thing, black can refer to a range of skin colours and ethnicities, and I personally don't know where you draw the line as to whether someone is "black" or not.
To me, "coloured" covers all non-white people, without drawing attention to a particular group. I don't understand how this can be more offensive that incorrectly referring to someone who is a dark-skinned Asian or mixed-race person as black, or someone who has never set foot in Africa or America and has no relatives there as African-American.
Maybe he should have used the term people of colour, but that seems to have certain connotations and almost be reserved for outspoken activists and non-white people themselves. He probably thought that coloured was the "correct" term and wouldn't cause offence. He certainly didn't intend to cause offence. When we shoehorn people into using certain terms, surely we are restricting their ability to speak openly for fear of using the wrong term. Isn't it possible that we actually cause more offence by creating smaller categories of person, which might be applied where they do not actually fit (ie. a dark-toned mixed race person being called black, which I've been told is pretty offensive) than we would cause by just using terms which we do not know to cause offence and do not intend to cause offence.
Notice how throughout this post, I've had to use non-white to indicate that I'm referring to all people who aren't white. It's a pretty bad phrase because it implies white as the norm, has a negative prefix and is generally quite exclusive. Surely coloured is better?
To me, "coloured" covers all non-white people, without drawing attention to a particular group. I don't understand how this can be more offensive that incorrectly referring to someone who is a dark-skinned Asian or mixed-race person as black, or someone who has never set foot in Africa or America and has no relatives there as African-American.
Maybe he should have used the term people of colour, but that seems to have certain connotations and almost be reserved for outspoken activists and non-white people themselves. He probably thought that coloured was the "correct" term and wouldn't cause offence. He certainly didn't intend to cause offence. When we shoehorn people into using certain terms, surely we are restricting their ability to speak openly for fear of using the wrong term. Isn't it possible that we actually cause more offence by creating smaller categories of person, which might be applied where they do not actually fit (ie. a dark-toned mixed race person being called black, which I've been told is pretty offensive) than we would cause by just using terms which we do not know to cause offence and do not intend to cause offence.
Notice how throughout this post, I've had to use non-white to indicate that I'm referring to all people who aren't white. It's a pretty bad phrase because it implies white as the norm, has a negative prefix and is generally quite exclusive. Surely coloured is better?
Which terms are considered polite and which offensive is essentially arbitrary and down to the culture and history.
In the US, coloured, negro, etc. is generally considered offensive even though they were common a couple of generations back. In fact, the NAACP still uses coloured in its title! But "person of colour" is OK, apparently.
But in South Africa, coloured refers to what most of us would call mixed race. In Brazil, there are numerous terms ranging in acceptability to describe the varied mix of skin tones.
Remember when Luis Suarez called Evra "negrito". Apparently the meaning in Latin America is not offensive, but to English ears it sounds uncomfortably close to negro.
In Britain, black is the generally accepted term, and I've never heard anyone getting in trouble for that. Although some people complain that black has associations of evil, darkness etc.
Personally, I like the term "dark skinned". It usually literally refers to what I am pointing out - the tone of the skin. I have no idea about a stranger's ethnic origin, ancestry, nationality etc. You can also use it to distinguish between black people - the "darker skinned" one for example. Someone with more tanned, Mediterranean type complexion could be darker than a Scot, but lighter than a Ugandan.
Is dark skinned acceptable or offensive?
In the US, coloured, negro, etc. is generally considered offensive even though they were common a couple of generations back. In fact, the NAACP still uses coloured in its title! But "person of colour" is OK, apparently.
But in South Africa, coloured refers to what most of us would call mixed race. In Brazil, there are numerous terms ranging in acceptability to describe the varied mix of skin tones.
Remember when Luis Suarez called Evra "negrito". Apparently the meaning in Latin America is not offensive, but to English ears it sounds uncomfortably close to negro.
In Britain, black is the generally accepted term, and I've never heard anyone getting in trouble for that. Although some people complain that black has associations of evil, darkness etc.
Personally, I like the term "dark skinned". It usually literally refers to what I am pointing out - the tone of the skin. I have no idea about a stranger's ethnic origin, ancestry, nationality etc. You can also use it to distinguish between black people - the "darker skinned" one for example. Someone with more tanned, Mediterranean type complexion could be darker than a Scot, but lighter than a Ugandan.
Is dark skinned acceptable or offensive?
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by minimarshmallow
I've been using 'person of colour' recently, but I don't know if that's the politically correct term to use or not. Someone told me off for using 'coloured person' last year, I think I was drunk at the time so I had just reached for what I'd been told what the politically correct term when I was a child.
It is useful to have a word for it. If you're talking about Lewis Hamilton to someone who doesn't know F1 drivers names, just their photos, it's much easier to describe the colour of his skin as his defining feature. Similarly Robert Kubica has a big nose, Fernando Alonso has those eyebrows, Kimi Raikkonen never smiles, Nico Rosberg looks like a male Britney Spears...
It is useful to have a word for it. If you're talking about Lewis Hamilton to someone who doesn't know F1 drivers names, just their photos, it's much easier to describe the colour of his skin as his defining feature. Similarly Robert Kubica has a big nose, Fernando Alonso has those eyebrows, Kimi Raikkonen never smiles, Nico Rosberg looks like a male Britney Spears...
I think person of colour is moving towards being the go to term in some social justice circles. But I know quite a few black people who hate the term because it sounds to similar to coloured and they don't like the connotations. Tbh most people who I know are fine if you accidentally use the wrong term as long as its not meant offensively and you say sorry if it upsets someone
I get offended when people call me English when I'm actually British.
Original post by Eveiebaby
I think that if there's any issue and to be honest I am nitpicking, but what if all of the F1 drivers were black. What would you do then?
And FYI - Lewis Hamilton is Mixed race.......
And FYI - Lewis Hamilton is Mixed race.......
Well if they were all black with just one white one, then he'd be the white one, and everyone else would have to have eyebrows or nose etc.
I know he's mixed race, his mother is white isn't she?, but he is still a person of colour, and is Kobayashi the only Asian driver at the moment, or am I missing one, so clearly he would be the 'Asian one'.
If there were two F1 drivers who were black or mixed race like Lewis you could maybe get away with 'the one in silver (Lewis)' etc.
It's just a feature that picks him out of that particular crowd. I'm the bottle blonde with the bad roots and the ghostly white skin, I don't often have someone like that around me so you'd use those aspects to pick me out. My mum is often the lady with the green hair in the wheelchair (as her friend who isn't in a wheelchair also has green hair).
Original post by Balloon Baboon
I know what the word means and that was my point. The word is exactly the same no matter who says it. But different rules apply today.
I also never mentioned anything to do with rap culture. It happens in all walks of life not just on TV. I've heard it myself many times.
I also never mentioned anything to do with rap culture. It happens in all walks of life not just on TV. I've heard it myself many times.
Your point is confused. Black people use this word insultingly between each other? Erm....what?
Most black people don't use that term at all actually, which is my point. Black culture is not homogenour; it encompasses many languages, countries, religions.
It's like saying "white people are into irony/sarcasm. I know this because I see it all the time". The problem with that statement is that your experience is limited by trends set by your local community. The US, which is dominated by white people are famed for not really getting irony.
It's a ramble. You get my point though, right?
Original post by Eveiebaby
No. The world is insulting and black people use it between each other. (I see it pretty much daily I have black friends) However, If I used it towards a black person he or she wouldn't be happy about it. Why?
Original post by alexschmalex
I'm black and I don't find those terms derogatory at all. Neither do any of my family/black friends so idk which side you're getting that from.....
Tbh I don't see the big deal, the only people complaining are oversensitive little adult-children who have nothing better to do in life imo. It really makes no difference at all....besides nobody really says it UNLESS they're trying super hard to be PC so that makes this supposed outrage even less outrageous
Tbh I don't see the big deal, the only people complaining are oversensitive little adult-children who have nothing better to do in life imo. It really makes no difference at all....besides nobody really says it UNLESS they're trying super hard to be PC so that makes this supposed outrage even less outrageous
Well which part of the UK you are? I am from London and I am mixed race and the black people in my family, my friends (who are black) and myself all find those terms derogatory and offensive because they are. A lot of black people where I live do and if someone who wasn't black was to say any of those words to them there would certainly be arguments and fights and even the people who aren't black and heard wouldn't approve because they too find those terms offensive.
Those terms couldn't be used in my school and college and certainly cannot be used on my work place and generally are not used in society.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Anna1437
I think person of colour is moving towards being the go to term in some social justice circles. But I know quite a few black people who hate the term because it sounds to similar to coloured and they don't like the connotations. Tbh most people who I know are fine if you accidentally use the wrong term as long as its not meant offensively and you say sorry if it upsets someone
One of my brother's flatmates is actually Nigerian (I think, that could have been his flatmate last year) and he is like 'call me black, it's fine' and that's great because it gets over that awkwardness of not knowing which word is the 'correct' term. I would always want someone to correct me if I used a term they found offensive, because I'm not perfect and different people like different terms to refer to themselves or to refer to others, but if you're talking like Benedict Cumberbatch was about a big group of people then it's hard to get the right term and not offend at least one person. If he'd used black, would people say things about him excluding mixed race individuals? If he'd used 'ethnic minority', would someone have said 'they're not a minority in X country!'?
He probably did what I did when I was drunk - used the term his mum had told him to use when he was younger. It does seem to be more of a thing with British people I've noticed, I think the political correctness of these terms may have changed at different times in different countries.
Just call them black people. I'm a white person, some people are black people, some are Asian people, e.t.c. Too much time and effort goes on being politically correct all the time; just call people what they are and move on.
Original post by Izzyeviel
Kubica has a big nose, Alonso has big eye brows, Kimi looks miserable and Britney has the lovely hair... Lewis is the guy with black skin... Not the guy with shiny teeth, diamond earrings, shaved eyebrows, afro... you see how needless it is?
Most of them have shiny teeth, I've not seen Lewis's eyebrows and his hair is usually short isn't it? I don't make a habit of looking at him as I'm a Nico fan.
Diamond earrings is one that you could point out, I didn't think of that one.
Also (to nit pick) you might get someone saying 'you noticed his teeth because his skin is darker', and you'd be right back where you started. The whole thing with potentially racist cabbies and 'if he'd smiled I'd have seen him better' (it was on a program ages ago and I cannot for the life of me remember which one).
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