Misuse of the religious society threads

Original post by Chlorophile

No, that's not a helpful analogy. This is like someone opening a thread in the Education forum to discuss exam tips for a certain subject and then someone barging in and telling them "The entire system is broken, education should be more creative and less point-based-marking driven...".If you open a thread for people of a certain faith to discuss their faith in peace, if you go in and start trying to start arguments then you're off-topic and being provocative.

They need to have their thread in the right section.

I would have no problem with them if it were in the chat section, where such chat belongs. Here, in the debate forum, everything is up for debate, in every thread, without any exception at all being allowed. In a place where people come to debate (here), having censored areas allows them to be misled, without others being able to input in the debate setting that the individual was looking for. I've seen this happen and that's why I've intruded society threads very occasionally before, and why I'd do it again if I think they were lying to another person looking for a helpful discussion instead of being intellectually assaulted by confirmation bias. That applies equally to the atheist thread - if we were providing mistruths to interested theists doubting their faith, in an attempt to bring them "over to our side", or telling lies to atheists considering religion in an order to keep them "on our side", I'd object to that and point out the lie and I would also expect theists to come in and do the same if I wasn't there to do it.

Reply 24

Chlorophile

20

Original post by FiniteMr

They need to have their thread in the right section.

I would have no problem with them if it were in the chat section, where such chat belongs. Here, in the debate forum, everything is up for debate, in every thread, without any exception at all being allowed. In a place where people come to debate (here), having censored areas allows them to be misled, without others being able to input in the debate setting that the individual was looking for. I've seen this happen and that's why I've intruded society threads very occasionally before, and why I'd do it again if I think they were lying to another person looking for a helpful discussion instead of being intellectually assaulted by confirmation bias. That applies equally to the atheist thread - if we were providing mistruths to interested theists doubting their faith, in an attempt to bring them "over to our side", or telling lies to atheists considering religion in an order to keep them "on our side", I'd object to that and point out the lie and I would also expect theists to come in and do the same if I wasn't there to do it.

Unfortunately, you're not the one making those rules. There are plenty of threads where you can attack Christians with the same old repetitive arguments as much as you want. If they want a thread to talk in peace, I don't have a problem with that.

Reply 25

Original post by Chlorophile

Unfortunately, you're not the one making those rules. There are plenty of threads where you can attack Christians with the same old repetitive arguments as much as you want. If they want a thread to talk in peace, I don't have a problem with that.

Of course I don't have a problem with that. But it cannot be here or the forum is being entirely misleading being named "debate". Rather, please rename the forum "The debate and discussion forum. Unless you don't want your opinions discussed or debated. Then it's censored."

Try another analogy: Pretend you went to a debating society and the motion was "Is Pastafarianism true?" You would expect to experience a debate on the topic, because it's a debating society. If you were to go to the debate and only one side were speaking because it had been censored by the TSR dictators, thinking they needed a place to talk about their opinions without the opposite side, you would be being misinformed about the religion. Or, at least, (not wanting to accuse religious people of of doing this intentionally), you wouldn't get as balanced and comprehensive a view as you would were there a voice attempting to oppose their views.

These society threads are that debating society. It is a one-sided conversation in an area where people come and expect many-sided conversations, and this could be very misleading. If they don't want discussions on their threads, then it is chat not debate/discussion, and they can put their religious chat threads in the chat section and there is no problem. If they remain here, and insist on censorship, there is a fundamental problem. Consider a person who has doubts and wants to hear both sides. They post their question in the Pastafarian society thread. Then they get a one-sided opinion on their question. Opposing views are deleted because of censorship. They don't have the opportunity to hear the other side, even though they came here to hear both sides and make a real decision.

Also, allowing debate and discussion is not the same as allowing "attacks". I don't attack Christians, or other religious people, I only want to discuss their ideas. As long as they are on threads in this forum, I'm going to do that in all the threads if I feel like it.

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 26

Original post by Chlorophile

x

Perfect recent example of my point: manutd fc2 in the I-soc thread. He comes to TSR, posts on the I-soc, and is immediately beaten down by a dozen voices telling him to stay in the I-soc thread and not venture out to where debate and discussion can happen - because debating/discussing Islam is "hate". What if he came intending to question or debate various aspects of his faith or doubts? Now he's been lured into a one-sided, biased discussion in an area where he expected to find many-sided discussions and hear different points of view, and this policy is what is preventing him from accessing this type of discussion.

Reply 27

manutd fc2

1

Original post by FiniteMr

Perfect recent example of my point: manutd fc2 in the I-soc thread. He comes to TSR, posts on the I-soc, and is immediately beaten down by a dozen voices telling him to stay in the I-soc thread and not venture out to where debate and discussion can happen - because debating/discussing Islam is "hate". What if he came intending to question or debate various aspects of his faith or doubts? Now he's been lured into a one-sided, biased discussion in an area where he expected to find many-sided discussions and hear different points of view, and this policy is what is preventing him from accessing this type of discussion.

Actually it was just one person who said I should stick to islamic society. Noone beat me down. If i want to ask question then I will, noone is luring me into anything, I wouldn't ask a non-muslim about islam anyway. I don't want to discuss things with tsr atheists.

Don't try to represent me.

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 28

Original post by manutd fc2

Actually it was just one person who said I should stick to islamic society. Noone beat me down. If i want to ask question then I will, noone is luring me into anything, I wouldn't ask a non-muslim about islam anyway. I don't want to discuss things with tsr atheists.

Don't try to represent me.

Just providing an example of how censorship could potentially lead to people who came for a many-sided conversation being led into a one-sided conversation. I really am sorry for exaggerating in my prior post, there was no offense meant to you personally: I just wanted an example of the type of situation I'm talking about, and there happened to be a post on the I-soc that I thought represented what I was arguing in a broad sense.

"I wouldn't ask a non-muslim about islam anyway"

Hence chat about Islam, not debate/discussion about Islam. I have no problem with you not wanting to discuss your beliefs, but this particular subforum is a place for exactly that, and there can't be censorship in a forum intended for debate and discussion. Hence why I disagree with the society threads being here / being censored.

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 29

manutd fc2

1

Original post by FiniteMr

Just providing an example of how censorship could potentially lead to people who came for a many-sided conversation being led into a one-sided conversation. I really am sorry for exaggerating in my prior post, there was no offense meant to you personally: I just wanted an example of the type of situation I'm talking about, and there happened to be a post on the I-soc that I thought represented what I was arguing in a broad sense.

"I wouldn't ask a non-muslim about islam anyway"

Hence chat about Islam, not debate/discussion about Islam. I have no problem with you not wanting to discuss your beliefs, but this particular subforum is a place for exactly that, and there can't be censorship in a forum intended for debate and discussion. Hence why I disagree with the society threads being here / being censored.

I didn't come for a many sided conversation. I just come on society threads to chat with like minded people.

I wouldn't. Just like I wouldn't go to muslims to ask about buddhism.

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 30

Original post by manutd fc2

I didn't come for a many sided conversation. I just come on society threads to chat with like minded people.

I wouldn't. Just like I wouldn't go to muslims about christianity.

You demonstrate my point exactly. On the society thread you want to chat, and not to debate. Again I have no problem with this. I have no problem with you not wishing to debate, I have no problem with you wishing to chat with other Muslims. I support that with no reservations. But this particular forum is not the place for chat, it is the place for debate, and the society threads should be in appropriate forums. If they remain here, can you see that there's the potential for people to be misled?

Again I didn't mean to warp your personal intentions when you came into the religion section, but to give an example of the situation that I'm concerned about with censorship in the debate section of TSR.

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 31

Whatever happened to the mod who threatened everyone with "TSR Hell" if they debated within a silly soc, no explanation for this ridiculous rule. Does anyone know who makes up these rules, is there a Mod conference, or is it an individual Mod who makes such a rule? At least let the Atheist soc have a debating forum, I have never known Atheists to run away from a debate.

Reply 32

mariachi

18

This whole new rule is absurd

In any case, everyone discusses/debates e.g. on the ISoc

it's just that if you express opinions which annoy a sufficient number of people, they will report you and you will be told by mods to take your opinions somewhere else

Reply 33

Je suis Charlie (I am Charlie)? Not in TSR debate rooms.

Reply 34

Original post by The_Lonely_Goatherd

Thank you

Posted from TSR Mobile

Why do the Atheist and Sikh socs carry no warning?
Sorry goat sent by mistake.

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 35

Original post by Queen Cersei

Hi everyone,

Just an update that the religious society threads are not designed for debating but for members of religious communities to come together and socialise.

As a result of these threads becoming derailed and complaints being submitted, any member who posts in these threads to troll or with negative intentions will be issued an immediate temporary ban lasting 24 hours.

If you spot someone trolling in these threads please use the report function to direct them to the CT.

Thanks!

The religious societies include:
Jewish Society (J-Soc)
Unitarian Universalist Society
TSR Buddhist Society
Hindu Society
Sikh Society
Christian Apologetics Society
The Pagan Society
The Theology Guild
Catholic Society
Deism society
Quakers
Christian Society
Eastern Orthodox Society
Islamic Society
Ex-Muslim Society
Interfaith Society
The Secular Society
Atheist Society

Why do the Atheist and Sikh socs carry no warning?

Reply 36

mariachi

18

Original post by dozyrosie

Why do the Atheist and Sikh socs carry no warning?

because atheists and Sikhs are not afraid of debating in the debate section ?

Reply 37

username1384880

11

The reason why debating is not allowed because it attracts troll. It would make the society threads the same as these kind of threads with repetitive questions.
I don't see why some of you have a problem with people wanting to discuss their religion with peace with others without people attacking them.
Ridiculous.

Reply 38