Why shouldn't men have more reproductive rights?

for the good of the child that's genetically his?

By that logic, I presume you're up for denying women abortions?

Some of the people on this forum do.

Because the child shouldn't be made to suffer. Then you just end with a whole cycle of poverty an society as a whole suffers. What is far more important is getting better contraception options for men.

Nope as a foetus isn't considered a child with rights to care (financial or otherwise) until that child is born.

Well then at the point of choosing whether to abort the child, it has no rights to financial support then either. I'm glad we're on the same page.

That choice is at the feet of women who choose to have children without the father's support, no?

Beating is a hideous criminal act, keeping a child is not. There's your difference.

Well it's not much of a choice if, say, you've always wanted children and an accident happens or you find abortion traumatic.

It's not as easy as 'well I'll just pop and get an abortion' for everyone.

My friend has PCOS, and was told by the doctor she was infertile. Her partner wanted her to get an abortion but obviously if she did she probably would never be able to have children again. It's not just some easy choice to be made as you make it out to be. I'm sure plenty of older women have found themselves in a similar position.

Also abortion comes with risks such as infertility and is a truly painful process to go through (ok so not as painful as childbirth but at least you end up with a baby out of that rather than a sense of loss and grieving).

Why should the child suffer because of that?

You keep making this point about the child (foetus) suffering, but if you really believe that then you must be dead set against abortion. Are you?

Very sad that some people have one shot at having a child. I'm sure most guys would want to be part of the child's life, but if not then I don't see why the mother's personal circumstances should create obligations on them.

As a side note, interesting that you will criticise others for arguing on the basis of fringe cases, but are happy to use them yourself.

When it's born it does.

Think a little bit about what it's like for a woman to go through an abortion, not just physically but emotionally. That stays with them forever. If they choose to keep it then their choice and therefore that child is entitled to financial care from BOTH parents, whether you want to is irrelevant. A life that's part of you needs care, you should provide it not only by law, but just morally speaking. Why would you want ANY child to suffer let alone one that was yours? (Wanted or unwanted regardless)

It might not sound fair, but I genuinely believe that it is the best of a series of difficult and unfair alternatives.

Firstly, sex is great, yeah. But if you're going to have sex, and you're fertile (i.e. haven't had a procedure to make it otherwise) then you always have to go into it assuming that there is a risk, however small, of conceiving a baby. That's just the risk you take when you have sex. If you don't use protection at all then you deserve everything you get. If you use condoms then less so, but still there's still a risk even when they're used properly.

So, now consider that something goes wrong and the woman does get pregnant. You might agree on what to do, either have the baby and keep it, have the baby and have it adopted, or get an abortion. If so, great.

But you cannot force a woman to have an abortion. It's inhumane. Especially if you don't find out in the first couple of weeks, because it then becomes an operation (and even before then it's very uncomfortable physically). You also have to consider the emotion of it. It's not just "take a pill and it's all fine". You are killing something that has the potential of becoming a child. Even if a woman didn't think she wanted children at that point, it becomes very different when she actually has a "baby" growing inside of her. Abortion isn't just something you go into and forget about. Okay so some women aren't affected by it, but others can feel guilty about it for years and years, if not forever. So it's a very difficult decision.

And if the partner decides he doesn't want a baby - then she has to go through pregnancy, childbirth and parenthood on her own. It's not as though woman get the easy options with it all. I would consider it a much easier option to send money every month and not have to have anything to do with actually looking after or raising the child.

Also, it's not a problem that only men have. If the parents come to an arrangement where the father looks after the child when it's born, then the mother would have to pay too, even if she chooses to have nothing to do with it. So that is by no means something that only a man has to deal with.

Ultimately, yes, it sucks. But unless you're going to start forcing abortion on women then you just have to realise that if you have sex, this might result in having a child, however small that possibility is. The only way to absolutely make sure you don't end up in this situation is not to have sex, and while this might not seem like the ideal option for you, then I'm sorry but sex isn't an absolute essential. You have to be grown up enough to realise the risks, and be prepared to deal with them when they occur.

You're completely misconstruing my argument

I mean the child will suffer from poverty and lack of financial support once it is born.

Except that what I have said applies to every childless woman in their 30s so is hardly a fringe case?

If a man would not have had that child come into existence, given the choice, why is it his problem what condition it grows up in? If a mother makes an informed decision to have a child in the knowledge that she will have no support from the father, is it not her responsibility to ensure that the child will receive financial support? I am asking for nothing here besides accountability for one' own decisions.

If a man would not have had that child come into existence, given the choice, why is it his problem what condition it grows up in? If a mother makes an informed decision to have a child in the knowledge that she will have no support from the father, is it not her responsibility to ensure that the child will receive financial support? I am asking for nothing here besides accountability for one' own decisions.

'One' choose to engage in sexual acts fully knowing the potential consequences

So your solution is celibacy. Brilliant.