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The Israel/Palestine Conflict Mk. IV

Check out Gist4Me, news site ( www.gist4me.com ). They have a short summary of the historical context behind most popular stories, and I have seen them cover the Israel/Palestine situation and the Ukrainian crisis.

Reply 6541

young_guns

1

Original post by saayagain

End of WW2 - Britain seeks to give Jews a homeland in Palestine aka Israel with the approval of the UN.

Britain voted against the partition of Palestine at the UN, and banned Jewish immigration to Palestine.

You really need to brush up on your history

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 6542

young_guns

1

Original post by saayagain

lol Great. Hamas don't want to negotiate at all. All they want is the destruction of Israel and to kill all Jews. blah blah blah...Give me some material I can read that has come from the horses mouth.

From Article Seven of the Hamas Charter

The prophet, prayer and peace be upon him, said:The time will not come until Muslims will fight the Jews (and kill them); until the last Jews hide behind rocks and trees, which will cry: O Muslim! there is a Jew hiding behind me, come on and kill him!

Reply 6543

young_guns

1

Original post by saayagain

It's easy to fix.

Two state solution with a UN controlled demilitarized zone. Problem solved.

Israel has a state. Palestine has a state. No more issues with other countries.

That was what was offered in 1948.

Remind me how the Arab world responded?

Reply 6544

saayagain

8

Original post by young_guns

That was what was offered in 1948.

Remind me how the Arab world responded?

Ok.

All out war. No hope of peace. Hurry up and nuke everyone...

Reply 6545

saayagain

8

Original post by young_guns

Britain voted against the partition of Palestine at the UN, and banned Jewish immigration to Palestine.

You really need to brush up on your history

meh

Only because Labour was the leading party at the time.

Reply 6546

anarchism101

17

Original post by young_guns

X

Sorry it took me a while to reply, I've had a busy week.

Rather than responding to each individual post and repeating myself, I'm going to try and give a general reply, broken up into what appear to me to be the points of contention.

Firstly, nationhood. I appreciate there might be a slight difference of definitions here, but I think you are having to set an incredibly wide definition to present pre-Zionist Jews as a nation. It is true that they had a shared liturgical language, used by religious figures and scholars for the purpose of religious literature which was shared between them. But the same is true for Catholics, or Muslims, and several other religions, yet we don't consider them 'nations'.

Furthermore, belonging to a nation is generally considered an exclusive matter (excepting when one nation is considered a subdivision of a larger one, i.e. one can be both Welsh and British, Catalan and Spanish, etc), and indeed an important part of the struggle against European anti-Semitism and for Jewish emancipation was that Jews were indeed part of the French/Greek/German/etc nation, rather than foreign aliens (as the anti-Semites claimed).

To answer your question about whether I think there is a distinct Jewish people now, the answer is sort of; I think there is a distinct Israeli Jewish people, but significant numbers of non-Israeli Jews across the world remain separate from it.

Secondly, self-determination. Peoples and cultures have been moving, mixing and diverging for as long as there have been people, and yes, often that was accompanied by forced assimilations, expulsions, genocides, etc. Trying to backdate historical claims would be both a practical and legal nightmare. We don't have to believe that the processes that produced the existing demographic makeups of the world were just, but at some point or other we have to accept that we can't do anything about them without significant violations of the rights of others.

As for what happened in 1948, the proposed partition gave the Jews quite a bit more than just the Jewish majority areas - indeed, that would have resulted in a proposal for a Jewish state that was significantly smaller and very teritorially non-contiguous.

Reply 6547

anarchism101

17

Original post by young_guns

That was what was offered in 1948.

Remind me how the Arab world responded?

What's so surprising about the idea that after decades of conquest, occupation and colonisation, what you're willing to accept might have dropped?

Reply 6548

ebubekir

4

An interesting plan for dividing Israel into provinces was published a few months ago byHaaretz. It suggested a remedy for the fragmentation of Israeli society and its failure to create a melting pot for Jews immigrating to Palestine.

http://electronicintifada.net/content/could-cantonizing-palestine-bring-peace/14204

Reply 6549

MatureStudent36

5

Are the Palestinians still launching rockets with the intention of killing israeli civilians?

Reply 6550

ebubekir

4

Original post by MatureStudent36

Are the Palestinians still launching rockets with the intention of killing israeli civilians?

what you do my friend, if u see a robber in your home! in your bedroom! called "israel" ? :smile:

Reply 6551

anarchism101

17

Original post by MatureStudent36

Are the Palestinians still launching rockets with the intention of killing israeli civilians?

Are the Israelis still occupying Palestine.

Also the ratio of rockets fired to deaths is more than 500:1. IDF deaths in the war last year easily outstripped rocket-cased deaths over the past 15 years.

Posted from TSR Mobile

Reply 6552

ebubekir

4

what d you do if a robber invade your home?

that robber (israeli terrorist occupants) deserve! to die :smile:

cant u still understand that?

israel occupied palestine , united kingdom backed israeli terrorists!

Reply 6553

MatureStudent36

5

Original post by anarchism101

Are the Israelis still occupying Palestine.

Also the ratio of rockets fired to deaths is more than 500:1. IDF deaths in the war last year easily outstripped rocket-cased deaths over the past 15 years.

Posted from TSR Mobile

Palestinian deaths would be a lot lower if they'd invest in iron dome. But as the Palestinian authorities choose to fire rockets at a neighbour and not offer up any force protection measures to their civilian population what do you expect.

It's like two Atimes fighting. One has tanks and body armour and the other has crossbows and arises horses into battle.

Reply 6554

AdvanceAndVanquish

12

Original post by MatureStudent36

Palestinian deaths would be a lot lower if they'd invest in iron dome. But as the Palestinian authorities choose to fire rockets at a neighbour and not offer up any force protection measures to their civilian population what do you expect.

It's like two Atimes fighting. One has tanks and body armour and the other has crossbows and arises horses into battle.

What's crazy is that the Arabs don't actually need to deploy any sort of measures to protect their civilian population. This is because they are facing an armed force which is actively trying to miss their civilians. All they need to do is stop deploying their civilian population to protect their military capabilities, or better still, cease military operations all together, because the activity of Gaza militants is literally the only thing that puts the Gazan population at any risk whatsoever from Israel.

Reply 6555

MatureStudent36

5

Original post by saayagain

It's easy to fix.

Two state solution with a UN controlled demilitarized zone. Problem solved.

Israel has a state. Palestine has a state. No more issues with other countries.

Make no mistake. Israel is the oppressor. If you don't agree with that then...I don't know what to say.

This isn't a european colonist vs native american scenario where noone cares about what goes on.

This topic is boring because it is so straight forward.

The reality is Israel wants the whole of Palestine. That's why they do not acknowledge the Palestinians. Simple as. So, war will come again. Now or in 100 years. Noone will forget these injustices so good luck to Israel. The longer they do what they do, the more unreasonable people get.

Agree with me because I'm right.

Do you vote labour by any chance?

Reply 6556

saayagain

8

Original post by MatureStudent36

Agree with me because I'm right.

Do you vote labour by any chance?

Huh?

No.

Reply 6557

anarchism101

17

Original post by MatureStudent36

Palestinian deaths would be a lot lower if they'd invest in iron dome. But as the Palestinian authorities choose to fire rockets at a neighbour and not offer up any force protection measures to their civilian population what do you expect.