The I-SOC (Islamic Society) (X)

Not that i'm insinuating anything brother but to call yourself an alim after just 6 years of study is no light matter.

One of my teachers has many Ijaazas and has been learning for over 13 years in Morocco, madinah, makkah, from nadwis and all over and he dislikes it greatly that anyone even calls him shaykh. It is something you pick up after sitting with individuals who have studied 30 or 40 years (as i'm sure you have) and still call themselves a student of knowledge.

Brothers at my local masjids that have completed a dars e nizami course and have done further stuides don't call themselves shaykh/alim/maulana/molvi.

If God existed eternally, then why did he decide to create the universe only 13.7 billion years ago?

This is actually a wonderful question, one which philosophers, including medieval Muslim philosophers have pondered on.

There are a number of things we must consider: How do we define 'time'? Does time itself have a beginning? Does an eternal being have to exist in eternal past time and future time?

Firstly, there are two ways i believe for an eternal being to exist. One is eternal within time, whereby this being exist infinitely in time - past and present , which presents a lot of philosophical problems.

The second is to transcend time and space, and exist outside of time and space - which is what we muslims believe in.

Therefore 'time' itself 'began' when God created it, and there was no 'deliberation' or 'an hour' before time where God began to ponder upon creation.


I cite the following Hadith:

He said: A man came to Abu’l Hasan ar-Rida عليه السلام from beyond the Balkh river and said: I will ask you a question, if your answer to me is the same as that which is with me [I will accept your cause]. So Abu’l Hasan عليه السلام said: Ask whatever you wish. So he said: Inform me about your Lord, when did He come into being? And how is His state? And upon what thing does He rely? So Abu’l Hasan عليه السلام said: Allah تبارك وتعالى was there before there was a “there”, and He was being before there was a “how”, and His reliance is upon His power. .....al-Kafi, Volume 1, hadith 233) Graded SAHIH by Alama Majlisi

The hadith states that God was there before a 'there' and in being before 'how'. Therefore there are no sequential events leading to God, nor are there even concepts of mechanisms. 'There' and 'How' are concepts created by God.

This is why Allah swt cannot move. If he moves from point x to point y, he is acting within time. It totally wreaks philosophical havoc into proving his existence.

God also does not 'exist' in space or a location with coordinates, therefore can not 'move'.

If God existed eternally, then why did he decide to create the universe only 13.7 billion years ago?

This is actually a wonderful question, one which philosophers, including medieval Muslim philosophers have pondered on.

There are a number of things we must consider: How do we define 'time'? Does time itself have a beginning? Does an eternal being have to exist in eternal past time and future time?

Firstly, there are two ways i believe for an eternal being to exist. One is eternal within time, whereby this being exist infinitely in time - past and present , which presents a lot of philosophical problems.

The second is to transcend time and space, and exist outside of time and space - which is what we muslims believe in.

Therefore 'time' itself 'began' when God created it, and there was no 'deliberation' or 'an hour' before time where God began to ponder upon creation.


I cite the following Hadith:

He said: A man came to Abu’l Hasan ar-Rida عليه السلام from beyond the Balkh river and said: I will ask you a question, if your answer to me is the same as that which is with me [I will accept your cause]. So Abu’l Hasan عليه السلام said: Ask whatever you wish. So he said: Inform me about your Lord, when did He come into being? And how is His state? And upon what thing does He rely? So Abu’l Hasan عليه السلام said: Allah تبارك وتعالى was there before there was a “there”, and He was being before there was a “how”, and His reliance is upon His power. .....al-Kafi, Volume 1, hadith 233) Graded SAHIH by Alama Majlisi

The hadith states that God was there before a 'there' and in being before 'how'. Therefore there are no sequential events leading to God, nor are there even concepts of mechanisms. 'There' and 'How' are concepts created by God.

This is why Allah swt cannot move. If he moves from point x to point y, he is acting within time. It totally wreaks philosophical havoc into proving his existence.

God also does not 'exist' in space or a location with coordinates, therefore can not 'move'.

What do you mean he doesnt move?

I dont know if this is correct, but i read somewhere that allah moves to the lower heavens every day or something

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Allah can't do something as simple as move? Doesn't this affect his omnipotence?

Allah can't do something as simple as move? Doesn't this affect his omnipotence?

Peace be with you.

There is a division between sunni's and shia's about this. I do not want to for a minute even discuss the sunni shia differences - i want us to merely use logic.

So lets forget we are muslims for a moment. Even some christians and deists believe God can not move.

You see, for something to 'move' it needs to act within time - it is limited by time. How can Allah swt be limited by time, when he himself created time?

Time, space, etc are all creations by Allah swt, he can not exist within them - he exists outside of them.

To say Allah swt descends means you give him two coordinates X and Y. He goes from X and comes to Y. This means Allah swt before descending is in place X - which limits Allah swt to one location. Allah swt is the creator of space, of laws, of limitations , he himself is free of all of these.

Actually, the idea that God never acts in time has various metaphysical issues (i.e. interaction with creation, issuing moral commands, etc). This is why theists like William Lane Craig (the main defender of the kalam argument) and Richard Swinburne believe that although God is timeless sans creation, He became temporal with the creation of the universe.

Wa 'alaykum, brother

This does make sense. But dont you believe that allah resides in heaven?

btw, do you reject all ahadith which are quoted in this soc?

I do not believe that. Allah swt is the one who created everything - so if he created 'heaven' then where was he before heaven? Allah swt can not be limited , nor contained, because these are properties of creation.

Allah swt existed before there was a 'where'.

He is not everywhere, nor is he in heaven, he is not closer to anyone thing relative to another, nor is he further from one thing than another.

ok, cool. So that means you also believe that heaven is not "outside" of space and time i.e. paradise is somewhere in this universe?

Salam Alaikum WaRahmatullah.

Bringing this topic again because I'm stubborn like that.
Is it okay for a non mahram to communicate with a female under the justification of dawah? And by communicate I don't mean a one hour talk, rather an everyday whatsapp or TSR convo. On that note, is it even okay to have a male or female friend? I'm pretty sure it's not; yet I'm tired of being called 'extreme' or too 'serious' and 'negative' because I say it is. Please share your thoughts and daleel, I will be very grateful.

Salam.

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