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Moderation statistics :)

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Original post by geoking
My man, money is king, and if a different direction is more lucrative, backtracking can occur :wink:


Not likely.

That decision was made to make the forum more accessible. It has been, according to the CT, an unqualified success and one they won't contemplate changing.

I feel you're barking up the wrong tree entirely there.
What would be the point of making these things public anyway? They were removed for a reason. We don't go around removing stuff willy nilly.

And do you really think CT really have the time to do things like this?
Reply 142
Original post by OU Student
What would be the point of making these things public anyway? They were removed for a reason. We don't go around removing stuff willy nilly.

And do you really think CT really have the time to do things like this?


Go back to the first post. The basic idea would take minutes.
Reply 143
Original post by Drewski
Not likely.

That decision was made to make the forum more accessible. It has been, according to the CT, an unqualified success and one they won't contemplate changing.

I feel you're barking up the wrong tree entirely there.


Considering reddit has a reputation system with up and downvotes and dwarfs TSR, I feel that the CT are using rather specious reasoning.
Original post by geoking
I care because the more cards I get, closer I am to a red card, and I'm on strike 2 for HR.

As to your
you haven't explained why that's your belief or why it's beneficial to the forum.
We're talking about people using naughty words, or making offensive comments, or trolling, rather than people being murderers etc. Those who relish in making such posts are only going to have their egos boosted in a "name and shame" attempt, just like some people took pride in their red gems. Those who got caught up in the heat of the moment and who are unlikely to slip up that often are going to be named and shamed for no real reason, and some might feel less comfortable participating in debates afterwards. Which is not good, at least in my opinion, because we should encourage members to engage in healthy, at times even heated, debate. Debating skills are useful for students.

And as for your cards/strikes - by your logic, what does it matter if you get a red card, or can't post in HR? It's not real life. (I disagree with that, by the way. My Internet activities are as much a part of my real life as my going for a walk over the hills, or my current attempts to write an essay.)
Original post by geoking
Go back to the first post. The basic idea would take minutes.

I think the fact that you haven't been black carded yet for wasting everyone's time here over something that really does not matter is pretty indicative of the mods not being the corrupt biased secret police-like villains that you're making them out to be.

Equals ****ing pipe.
Original post by geoking
Go back to the first post. The basic idea would take minutes.


but as hype has explained, the rationale behind the cards is something only the mod who issued it actually knows, it's not just a simple database enquiry if you want statistics of any value.
Original post by geoking
One issue is always going to be subjectivity. If you say word X is offensive, and I say it's not because Y (group of people say) use it freely, who is right? With moderation being subjective, not turning cards over shows a problem that moderators are mistaking opinion as fact.

I think one of the main problems with the moderation of the forum is the end goal. The goal is to make sure no one is offended. It shouldn't be. The main goal surely should be to make sure it's a healthy environment for interesting discussion.

The issue with offense based moderation is that something will always offend someone. It's a flawed idea from the start that will only stifle discussion and debate. Considering the forum is filled with academics, this isn't going to be a good rule to have in place. The system would be a lot better if it was done more akin to a presidential debate. Keep it on topic, and as long as what is said is relevant, then if someone is offended, well the truth can be tough at times. This would allow for a much more mature forum with healthier more engaging topics, and arguably would increase user retention. At the moment chat is the prominent forum and nobody is really going to stick around to talk about the weather. However if you let people argue the many points of something like feminism without fear of hurting someone's delicate sensibilities, one thread alone would keep users more engaged than a weeks worth of chat posts.


Nor turning over cards doesn't necessarily indicate a problem though, that's entirely the point. Unless you can view every single card given, you'd have no idea why the cards were given, nor if they should have been overturned. The stats could tell you 0% were overturned, or they could tell you 10% were - without access to both the warning history and the AAM though, this isn't indicative of good or bad modding, it's just a vaguely interesting statistic.

The remainder of your post seems to be about whether the rules should be changed - interesting topic for sure, but maybe one for another thread.
Original post by Kittiara
A post that has been edited by a moderator does make me curious, that's true :tongue:. Only for a split-second, though, and I can't say that I remember any names of people that's happened to.


If I end up having to edit someone's post in my section then I leave them a note either at the bottom of the post or in the edit note. :smile:
Original post by geoking
Considering reddit has a reputation system with up and downvotes and dwarfs TSR, I feel that the CT are using rather specious reasoning.


Actually a lot of subreddit communities have a massive issue with downvotes - with some even removing them. I was just listening to a panel of community managers for CMAD talk about self-moderation and upvotes/downvotes - one guy said explicitly not to do it.

Upvotes and downvotes are great in theory, but they don't really work on TSR - especially in the debate forums as a lot of discussion on TSR is subjective. This means that the pos/neg rep would probably end up balancing out anyway and there's no point in that. If people are being negged all the time then it discourages them from posting and contributing to discussions, just because their opinion is unpopular to some. The current system allows users to give a thumbs up 'you're making a good post' to the poster, it also allows other users to see if it's a quality post in the eyes of others.

Post rep is often one of the first removed part of the forum software - saying this as a forum admin of another website.

Additionally - the amount of work you've suggested throughout the thread is stupid. I have enough going on to not have to deal with a mass of paperwork just to be more 'transparent' to the wider community - a lot of which would probably not even care. We have a place where you can appeal stuff and quite simply if you don't want cards then don't break the rules. Frankly read your post and consider whether you should hit that submit button.
Original post by Roving Fish
If I end up having to edit someone's post in my section then I leave them a note either at the bottom of the post or in the edit note. :smile:


That's a good way to do it. Very helpful. :smile:
Let's say this ridiculous notion was actually going somewhere. You'd end up with a bunch of essentially meaningless stats released presumably into a thread. One side will use those figures to back up their argument that mods are ****. The other side will use the exact same figures to back up their argument that the mods are splendid. What you end up with is a waffling discussion where both sides are stubborn as anything where nothing ever really gets solved - much like this thread, I'd say.
Original post by geoking
Working as a web dev (sounds more like front end than back end) you should know making a db query doesn't involve tickets or test environments as it's a read-only operation.

True the time at which it is ran would have to be something like 4 a.m. but that's not really a problem as it can be automated. An SQL dump may not be useful, or it may be useful if it was turned into CSV format, depending on the output. Again I really do believe that a half competent DB operator could do this in a morning if they had knowledge of the DB structure :smile:


Considering you work for a "multi million pound" organization you should be well aware of the positive correlation with beaurocracy and the size of a company ie: the bigger it is the longer things take to get done

But even at a small company like tsr there is still a huge amount of red tape because there are always risks that you don't want to have..
This thread is just becoming hilarious and pathetic.
Someone asks for some basic numbers and stats which most other forums present. The result? Mods try to deny basic facts and desperately scrounge for a reason not to. Because that doesn't make the moderation look terrible at all :facepalm:


Original post by Champagne Supernova
Let's say this ridiculous notion was actually going somewhere. You'd end up with a bunch of essentially meaningless stats released presumably into a thread. One side will use those figures to back up their argument that mods are ****. The other side will use the exact same figures to back up their argument that the mods are splendid. What you end up with is a waffling discussion where both sides are stubborn as anything where nothing ever really gets solved - much like this thread, I'd say.


Why is it so ridiculous? You just sound like some dictatorship trying to defend not giving out election results "This is ridiculous! USA has everything to do with our problems!" :rofl:
The stats would only cause a problem if they were biased. The fact that you all claim it would make a problem if released clearly shows that you know that something isn't right, hence why you won't release them. Well doesn't that mean you should maybe evaluate how you moderate?! :eek:
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Jimbo1234
This thread is just becoming hilarious and pathetic.
Someone asks for some basic numbers and stats which most other forums present. The result? Mods try to deny basic facts and desperately scrounge for a reason not to. Because that doesn't make the moderation look terrible at all :facepalm:


I'd say the mods have come out of this looking pretty damn good. :yep:

Agree about the hilarity of this thread though. :ninja:
Original post by Jimbo1234
This thread is just becoming hilarious and pathetic.
Someone asks for some basic numbers and stats which most other forums present. The result? Mods try to deny basic facts and desperately scrounge for a reason not to. Because that doesn't make the moderation look terrible at all :facepalm:


Asking for the benefit of releasing them != scrounging for a reason not to.
Original post by Jimbo1234
This thread is just becoming hilarious and pathetic.
Someone asks for some basic numbers and stats which most other forums present. The result? Mods try to deny basic facts and desperately scrounge for a reason not to. Because that doesn't make the moderation look terrible at all :facepalm:




Why is it so ridiculous? You just sound like some dictatorship trying to defend not giving out election results "This is ridiculous! USA has everything to do with our problems!" :rofl:
The stats would only cause a problem if they were biased. The fact that you all claim it would make a problem if released clearly shows that you know that something isn't right, hence why you won't release them. Well doesn't that mean you should maybe evaluate how you moderate?! :eek:


Well, if you feel that the moderation system can be improved (which is fair enough), why don't you apply to become a moderator? That goes for the OP as well :smile:. That way, you can actively help improve the system whilst being aware of all the processes etc.

Sometimes, if you want something to happen, you've got to step up to the plate.
OP - if you don't like what the mods are doing then just leave TSR.

I'm more than happy for them to mod as they see fit; that's what you sign up to when you join any website.

Please don't waste any more of their time :smile:
Original post by Jimbo1234

Why is it so ridiculous?


I'd say the rest of my post covers my views.

Well doesn't that mean you should maybe evaluate how you moderate?! :eek:


I'm not a moderator.
Original post by shadowdweller
Asking for the benefit of releasing them != scrounging for a reason not to.


Everyone has mentioned the benefits, and would it really be all that hard or long to do? Of course not. It would make people contend moderation less,

But thinking about it, you mods know there is a problem. The entire moderation technique has changed (cars over warning points) thus there was clearly an issue with moderation. Hows the new system working out? Maybe some active input from the community would help seeing that they are the ones you moderate after all.

Oh right, that is far too good an idea isn't it.


Original post by Kittiara
Well, if you feel that the moderation system can be improved (which is fair enough), why don't you apply to become a moderator? That goes for the OP as well :smile:. That way, you can actively help improve the system whilst being aware of all the processes etc.

Sometimes, if you want something to happen, you've got to step up to the plate.


Because I have a full time job...
Also after debating with mods numerous times over issues, their moderation and mine would be utterly different.

Oh, I don't give two ****s if it happens or not :tongue: The forum is pretty dire and not the one I joined or took part in many years ago. It it just interesting seeing how people react when they are called out for doing something badly.

Original post by superwolf
I'd say the mods have come out of this looking pretty damn good. :yep:

Agree about the hilarity of this thread though. :ninja:


How so? They have just said "No. Don't want to start a fight", implying that the stats would certainly create one (which is pretty damning). As others have pointed out, if senior management in a company did this, the company wouldn't last long.


Original post by Champagne Supernova
I'd say the rest of my post covers my views.

I'm not a moderator.


You utterly ignored my point. Because I'm not used to that happening on TSR :rolleyes:
So here it is again; "The stats would only cause a problem if they were biased." To say all stats cause fights is just absurd.

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