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Sharp rise in halal abattoirs slaughtering animals without stunning them first.

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Original post by safar.sagheer
Sorry I was just passionate to spread the truth...I have the feeling you are dodging my arguments...and NO dont google eid slaughter as it wont be a pleasant watch trust me...the same way no one would want to watch animals excreting but its a part of the circle of life :smile:


The truth is we have already decided the halal and kosher method are cruel as we have a LAW that prevents non muslims from using this slaughter method

Remember your slaughter methods are EXEMPT from the law on the ethical treatment of animals
Original post by PopaPork
Really

I ask again

If research was able to prove that the un stunned halal and kosher method of slaughter caused an animal unnecessary suffering would you support the banning of it?


No i would not support the ban as my Creator has provided this means of slaughtering as the best means of acquiring this form of nutrition. AS I SAID BEFORE IF YOU WANT ME TO CHANGE MY POSITION you will have to convince me to change my religion!

My religion is not man-made its set by GOD therefore its not my position to change laws of slaughtering animals etc.
Original post by safar.sagheer
No i would not support the ban as my Creator has provided this means of slaughtering as the best means of acquiring this form of nutrition. AS I SAID BEFORE IF YOU WANT ME TO CHANGE MY POSITION you will have to convince me to change my religion!

My religion is not man-made its set by GOD therefore its not my position to change laws of slaughtering animals etc.


So anything you say about 'halal' being for the benefit of the animal and it's welfare is irrelevant

I'm not here to get you to change your religion I'm just highlighting the hypocrisy of your reply
Original post by PopaPork
So anything you say about 'halal' being for the benefit of the animal and it's welfare is irrelevant

I'm not here to get you to change your religion I'm just highlighting the hypocrisy of your reply


All I am trying to highlight is that you cant expect us to change our religion and way of slaughtering which has been withheld for centuries just because some 'scientific evidence' suggests so.

However I would like to see changes and improvements in the way that animals are treated in slaughter houses BUT that shouldn't require changing the method of slaughtering.
Original post by safar.sagheer
All I am trying to highlight is that you cant expect us to change our religion and way of slaughtering which has been withheld for centuries just because some 'scientific evidence' suggests so.

However I would like to see changes and improvements in the way that animals are treated in slaughter houses BUT that shouldn't require changing the method of slaughtering.


Yes I can. You can follow you religion as much as the law allows you to. If the law were to ban halal and kosher you would have to follow and accept this

The Law in the UK requires ALL animals to be stunned before slaughter

Muslims and Jews are exempt from this law (you do understand this don't you? If I as a non Muslim were to slaughter an animal the same I would be locked up for animal cruelty:rolleyes:)

This will soon change
Original post by PopaPork
Yes I can. You can follow you religion as much as the law allows you to. If the law were to ban halal and kosher you would have to follow and accept this

The Law in the UK requires ALL animals to be stunned before slaughter

Muslims and Jews are exempt from this law (you do understand this don't you? If I as a non Muslim were to slaughter an animal the same I would be locked up for animal cruelty:rolleyes:)

This will soon change


Well I hope that you are aware that if this does 'soon change' many thousands of muslims will have no means of acquiring meat which is in accordance with their faith and many may lose their income or be forced to become vegetarian.

I urge you to understand the implications of your efforts...lets channel them to stopping animal cruelty in the way the animals are treated before slaughtering.
Original post by safar.sagheer
Well I hope that you are aware that if this does 'soon change' many thousands of muslims will have no means of acquiring meat which is in accordance with their faith and many may lose their income or be forced to become vegetarian.

I urge you to understand the implications of your efforts...lets channel them to stopping animal cruelty in the way the animals are treated before slaughtering.


Tough.

We want everyone to be equal before the law and we expect everyone to be held to the same standards.

You want to be treated equally as a Muslim don't you?
Original post by PopaPork
Tough.

We want everyone to be equal before the law and we expect everyone to be held to the same standards.

You want to be treated equally as a Muslim don't you?



Why cant we have slaughtering animals allowed for non-believers then???
Original post by safar.sagheer
Why cant we have slaughtering animals allowed for non-believers then???


What?

You need to word this better
Original post by PopaPork
What?

You need to word this better


Instead of trying to change the law to ban slaughtering animals altogether, try to change the law so that slaughtering animals is allowed for people of all or no belief and have stricter regulations to ensure the good treatment of the livestock.
Original post by safar.sagheer
Instead of trying to change the law to ban slaughtering animals altogether, try to change the law so that slaughtering animals is allowed for people of all or no belief and have stricter regulations to ensure the good treatment of the livestock.


NO.

the law is there to prevent cruelty to animals and as a country we have already decided this is unacceptable

we will not change this but we are fighting to make sure the law applies to EVERYONE without exception

But you didn't answer the question

Do want muslims to be treated Equally in this country>?
Original post by safar.sagheer


NEVERTHELESS DON'T LISTEN TO THE DAILY FAIL AS THEY TWIST AND LIE EVERY DAY!


Sadly the story hasn't just been made up by the daily mail, it's been widely reported and the footage available to see.

"Animals can apparently be seen having their throats hacked and sawed by a worker wearing the traditional Muslim kufi skullcap and muttering the words Allahu Akbar (God is great). In one instance, it took five attempts to sever blood vessels"


"The footage is also said to show:

- Sheep being kicked in the face and head, lifted by their ears, fleeces or legs, and hurled into solid structures.

- A worker standing on the neck of a conscious sheep and bouncing up and down.
- Staff erupting into laughter over a sheep bleeding to death with spectacles drawn around her eyes in green paint.

- Staff taunting and frightening animals by waving knives, smacking them on the head and shouting at them.

- A worker holding a sheep by the throat and pulling back his fist as if to deliver a punch."

http://www.itv.com/news/2015-02-03/horrific-animal-abuse-captured-on-halal-slaughterhouse-spycam/

Utterly barbaric :frown:
Reply 192
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Original post by Iqbal007
Its being confused with the term halal meat, and media are pushing it without bothering to research.

Actually no, there are restrictions which animals are allowed to be slaughtered e.g. if their sick they can't. However, there are also guidelines to how animals should be raised/treated....this is the issue which is slowly becoming a bigger topic in the Muslim community, with some only considering organic halal as acceptable. It'll get a bigger movement going with more abattoirs trying to hustle in on the halal meat market.


animals being sick is not relevant to what i said, anti-bios and steroids/hormone are given to healthy animals in the 'halal' meat industry too
the issue you refer about humane treatment is more to do with western ideals of animal welfare influnecing muslims. britain with EU has the most stringent animal welfare laws. even some halal slaughterhosues actually use stunning from pressure based in uk. but not all So its the western media that often highlights the issue of inhumane treatment in halal slaughter. topically today there is an opened investigation on a halal slaughterhouse where animals were abused. my guess is this is one of many to come
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by safar.sagheer
All I am trying to highlight is that you cant expect us to change our religion and way of slaughtering which has been withheld for centuries just because some 'scientific evidence' suggests so.


How is the human species going to progress further when people still think like this in the 21st century. Smh.
Reply 194
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Original post by R Dragon
Hi,

I was vegetarian too for a while. So I deeply respect your ideals.

Yes, I understand your point, and I assure you I'm very well versed with what halal means. What I'm trying to accentuate is that the method of halal slaughter isn't barbaric. It's an incredibly humane process and I think if a chicken was given a choice between death by a halal butcher or a lioness, it'd be a pretty easy decision to make :P

there is nothing humane about halal slaughter - perhaps you arnt aware of its nature - the slitting of the jugular but preserveing the spine and therefore central nervous system was not driven by 'humane concern' it was to keep the animal alive while islamic chants can be performed in its death throws. its entirely a tribal arab practice that actually pre-dates islam ( but was adopted by mohammed etc)
stunning is a far more humane method, if you insist on slaughtering animals
Original post by moonfacebear
Sadly the story hasn't just been made up by the daily mail, it's been widely reported and the footage available to see.

"Animals can apparently be seen having their throats hacked and sawed by a worker wearing the traditional Muslim kufi skullcap and muttering the words Allahu Akbar (God is great). In one instance, it took five attempts to sever blood vessels"


"The footage is also said to show:
X

Utterly barbaric :frown:


To be fair this is not an Islamic teaching at all. Killing animals whilst others are allowed to witness it is a no no. These people carrying out these bullying tactics are just idiots.
Original post by Charzhino
To be fair this is not an Islamic teaching at all. Killing animals whilst others are allowed to witness it is a no no. These people carrying out these bullying tactics are just idiots.


Google EID Slaughter to see how halal is done in Muslim countries
Reply 197
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Original post by safar.sagheer
All I am trying to highlight is that you cant expect us to change our religion and way of slaughtering which has been withheld for centuries just because some 'scientific evidence' suggests so.

However I would like to see changes and improvements in the way that animals are treated in slaughter houses BUT that shouldn't require changing the method of slaughtering.


'halal' slaughter is not originaly islamic - arab tribes and bedouins have been using this form of slaughter for hundreds of years before islam came along, and hebrews long before that.
so in effect you are simply copying regional human practices
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/shopping-and-consumer-news/11384505/Secret-halal-slaughterhouse-film-reveals-horrific-animal-abuse.html

That video is not for the fainthearted.
Original post by R Dragon
Hi,

I was vegetarian too for a while. So I deeply respect your ideals.

Yes, I understand your point, and I assure you I'm very well versed with what halal means. What I'm trying to accentuate is that the method of halal slaughter isn't barbaric. It's an incredibly humane process and I think if a chicken was given a choice between death by a halal butcher or a lioness, it'd be a pretty easy decision to make :P


If you also gave the chicken the additional option of death by a stunned slaughter, it'd choose that option in a blink of an eye.

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