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Should white people pay black people money for unpaid work from slavery?

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Original post by the bear
English people should be compensated by the Italians after what the Romans did to us. So many Englishmen were used as slaves by the Romans, but no-one wants to open up this can of vermicelli


Irish *cough

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Original post by Asurat
Isn't it a bit much to counter that African Americans wouldn't have been better off in Africa? Things could have been much different without colonialism for the USA also. But this is all rhetoric.


Isn't that largely an irrelevant point? The butterfly effect could be used for anything


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Original post by Wilfred Little
Cormac Easton is really a 17 year old white boy from Buckinghamshire named Rupert.


I know this is really late, but Goddamn that made my day! :biggrin:
Original post by Wade-
Isn't that largely an irrelevant point? The butterfly effect could be used for anything


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Yep, which is why I think that African Americans having to be "thankful" for slavery is silly, who knows what could have been?
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Original post by Asurat
Yep, which is why I think that African Americans having to be "thankful" for slavery is silly, who knows what could have been?


But it's s fact that they were moved to the USA and because of that their descendants enjoy a much higher quality of life, I don't see where the butterfly effect comes in?


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Original post by Wade-
But it's s fact that they were moved to the USA and because of that their descendants enjoy a much higher quality of life, I don't see where the butterfly effect comes in?


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Where would Africa be now without any colonialism? My point was that nobody knows and assumptions that all descended from slaves now have a much better quality of life then if they stayed on the continent for 400 years seem far-fetched to me, (which I will concede, was a weak point to make).

The one big thing that grinds my gears is the assumption that higher living standards= happiness. I've lived with my grandfather on his farm and had bucket baths every day for a month, and it was a frugal lifestyle which I wouldn't mind living every day until I die, despite the drawbacks.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Asurat
Isn't it a bit much to counter that African Americans wouldn't have been better off in Africa? Things could have been much different without colonialism for the USA also. But this is all rhetoric.

I don't see your point. We're talking about what happened, not what may have happened given x and y.

Sounds like you're just trying to shift the goalposts from your other failed argument that some Africans are happy.
Original post by BitWindy
I don't see your point. We're talking about what happened, not what may have happened given x and y.

Sounds like you're just trying to shift the goalposts from your other failed argument that some Africans are happy.

My original point was that in my opinion, having a "better life" isn't about living conditions at all, to be explicit.
Fine then, do you think that the generations who were born into slavery in America were better off than if they were born free in Africa?
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Original post by Asurat
Where would Africa be now without any colonialism? My point was that nobody knows and assumptions that all descended from slaves now have a much better quality of life then if they stayed on the continent for 400 years seem far-fetched to me, (which I will concede, was a weak point to make).

The one big thing that grinds my gears is the assumption that higher living standards= happiness. I've lived with my grandfather on his farm and had bucket baths every day for a month, and it was a frugal lifestyle which I wouldn't mind living every day until I die, despite the drawbacks.


Well no one knows but we can say its unlikely that Africa would have had the technological and scientific breakthroughs that have come out of the west as they still lived (and in a lot parts still do) live in very tribal communities which preserve their traditional way of life rather than making progress.

I do agree that just because your standard of life is higher it doesn't necessarily make you happier but in most instances that's true
Original post by Wade-
Well no one knows but we can say its unlikely that Africa would have had the technological and scientific breakthroughs that have come out of the west as they still lived (and in a lot parts still do) live in very tribal communities which preserve their traditional way of life rather than making progress.

I do agree that just because your standard of life is higher it doesn't necessarily make you happier but in most instances that's true

I agree 100%, I very much doubt that Sub-saharan Africa would have made any significant advances in tech had it been isolated and have better things to do thank build castles in the sky.

I just find it amazing how the other user suggested that a sort of tax should be paid to the descendants of slave owners, as if being enslaved is a genuine blessing (unless (s)he's making an ironic joke then I see where they're coming from).
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Original post by Asurat
I agree 100%, I very much doubt that Sub-saharan Africa would have made any significant advances in tech had it been isolated and have better things to do thank build castles in the sky.

I just find it amazing how the other user suggested that a sort of tax should be paid to the descendants of slave owners, as if being enslaved is a genuine blessing (unless (s)he's making an ironic joke then I see where they're coming from).


Well I think the whole idea of people paying anything based on the actions of their ancestors is ridiculous really whether that be descendants of slave owners paying taxes to black people or vice versa
Original post by Wade-
Well I think the whole idea of people paying anything based on the actions of their ancestors is ridiculous really whether that be descendants of slave owners paying taxes to black people or vice versa

I also agree, I think racial-inequality in America won't be fixed by a lump-sum of money
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Original post by Asurat
I also agree, I think racial-inequality in America won't be fixed by a lump-sum of money


If anything it would just increase racial tension and a lot of white Americans would be resentful; it'd probably do more harm than good
Original post by Wade-
If anything it would just increase racial tension and a lot of white Americans would be resentful; it'd probably do more harm than good

Again I agree. I think one of the other problems is that in black communities, it could also prove divisive if people find their neighbours who are the exact same socio-economically get $$$ and they find themselves with nothing and the exact same problems.
I do think this idea is ridiculous but I would imagine that the Irish would be entitled to quite a bit from the English if the Black people are.
Original post by Cormac Easton
OP has a point. Countries in Africa are still dealing with the aftermath of the transatlantic slave trade.

Logically those African countries should also pay reparations, as they permitted and profited from the slave trade too.

They would argue the same that most whites would: they don't have a clear legal continuity with the people who made those decisions, and therefore cannot be liable.

Why, for instance, should a white Jew who came to the US in 1937 to escape the Holocaust be made to pay reparations to an African-American like Barack Obama whose parents arrived there in the 1960s?
Original post by A Mysterious Lord
I demand reparations from Norway and Denmark for the conditions my ancestors endured during the Viking invasions.


I demand reparations from Italy for the enslavement and colonisation endured by my ancestors at the hands of the romans.
The answer is no and will always be no. Besides the fact that not everybody descends from slavers, there's the fact that people shouldn't receive reparations for work they didn't do, as they are descendants of slaves, not slaves themselves. Meanwhile, there's the fact that there is no way to estimate how much these reparations would come up to, then, there's the issue of the ultimate question of whether or not this is just a giant attempt at a swindle based on the suffering of their ancestors. What if they weren't descended from slaves? Do they still receive reparations? If the conservative estimate that OP provided is correct, then this also means that the cost of reparations would devalue the dollar massively thanks to inflation, meaning the reparations would become worthless as the dollar would be worthless.

Also, to suggest money should be the means of reparation for everybody is questionable at best. What would the money go to? I would suggest watching the Family Guy episode where Peter discovers his great-grandfather was a slave.
Only if the white people in question are actual slave owners and the black people in question are actual slaves.:rolleyes:

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