Is it sexist to treat women differently?
Poll
Is it sexist?
Like paying for dates. I wouldn't do it for a mate, except for special occasions. So the only reason I would do it is because she's a woman I'm dating, therefore singling out her gender. On top of that, what if I got up from the table when she walked in or helped her with her chair? Or walked her to her house to make sure she is safe? Or offer to change a flat tire for her if she had a car? Again, not something I would do with a male friend, so only because she is a woman. Are young women put off by benevolent sexism or do they love it as much as their mothers and grandmothers did?
This is not sexism.
This is sexism: prejudiced, stereotyping and discrimination. If you offered to fix a flat-tire for a female friend, that's hardly being sexist. If you said you would do it for her because she's incapable because of her gender, that's sexist. Young women want to be treated as equals to men, it's as simple as that. Just be respectful, which it seems you already are, being prejudiced is much more sinister.
This is sexism: prejudiced, stereotyping and discrimination. If you offered to fix a flat-tire for a female friend, that's hardly being sexist. If you said you would do it for her because she's incapable because of her gender, that's sexist. Young women want to be treated as equals to men, it's as simple as that. Just be respectful, which it seems you already are, being prejudiced is much more sinister.
Woman are different from men. Feminism isn't about treating women the SAME as men. It's about celebrating diversity within our population and acknowledging society, due to historical reasons, favours men (on a macro level).
Now with that in mind, back to the question.
Is doing nice things for woman sexist? No it's not. If you want to pay her meal. Go ahead. If you want to walk her home to ensure her safety. Again, go ahead.
What IS sexist is if you have an expectation of how a woman should be. If you tell every woman that she should walk home with you because of the fact she is a woman, then that is sexist. Some women may not be keen on that idea and may interpret you walking them home as a sign you want to get into bed with them.
Let's face it, you wouldn't change a woman's tire just for the sake of altruism. If that were the case you would've done it for men too. Here's a more realistic scenario: A man may change a woman's tire and then expect her to be grateful and receptive to his flirting. That is internalized sexism. Situations where a man is selflessly doing all these good things for a woman with no expectation of return hardly exist in our society.
Now with that in mind, back to the question.
Is doing nice things for woman sexist? No it's not. If you want to pay her meal. Go ahead. If you want to walk her home to ensure her safety. Again, go ahead.
What IS sexist is if you have an expectation of how a woman should be. If you tell every woman that she should walk home with you because of the fact she is a woman, then that is sexist. Some women may not be keen on that idea and may interpret you walking them home as a sign you want to get into bed with them.
Let's face it, you wouldn't change a woman's tire just for the sake of altruism. If that were the case you would've done it for men too. Here's a more realistic scenario: A man may change a woman's tire and then expect her to be grateful and receptive to his flirting. That is internalized sexism. Situations where a man is selflessly doing all these good things for a woman with no expectation of return hardly exist in our society.
(edited 9 years ago)
What you've said doesn't sound sexist to me, needs moar prejudice.
I think if you are asking this question you are doing it wrong.
I do 'generous' things like that for women quite often, pay for things, offer to help out with stuff, walk them home, help them move things in their houses and whatever. I've never had a negative reaction or be accused of being sexist.
It depends on the circumstances and context, if you then behave in a way that reveals your intentions were to get her to feel she owed you something ("I bought you dinner and paid for all the drinks and still you didn't want to go on a second date? **** you then!") then she will be annoyed. Also if it looks like it's patronising or false flattery it won't go down well. On the paying for things, generally if I asked a girl out then I don't mind paying but if she offers to pay half or says OK lets go again and I'll pay next time, I won't argue I will allow that. If I was going out with a girl that I knew had less money than me (eg a student doing her Masters who was struggling to cover living costs and fees) then I would say look its ok I'm in full time work let me cover paying for stuff, but if it was a girl with a similar level job to me I wouldn't.
If I'm walking up the stairs in a train station and a woman has a big case and is struggling to lift it up I'll say "hey there, would you like some help with that?" and usually they say yes and I'll carry the case up and make a bit of friendly chat and then wish them a nice day, they are always cool with it. I think if you do that and then try and use it as a lead in to one of those pick-up things going "so hey how about give me your number" then it changes the vibe and she will think it was done for manipulative purposes.
I know some guys on TSR like to make out that you can't do stuff like this for a woman without being accused of being sexist, but that doesn't happen in the real world, I think what's happening there is those guys are doing it in a way that is sexist, or are doing otherwise sexist things.
It's a general point I have about those on here that say you can't do anything without being accused of being sexist....I wonder how I manage to go through life doing generous things to women, chatting to them, forming friendships, relationships, dating and so on and never get accused of being sexist...? The world is not some anti-male conspiracy out to get you.
I do 'generous' things like that for women quite often, pay for things, offer to help out with stuff, walk them home, help them move things in their houses and whatever. I've never had a negative reaction or be accused of being sexist.
It depends on the circumstances and context, if you then behave in a way that reveals your intentions were to get her to feel she owed you something ("I bought you dinner and paid for all the drinks and still you didn't want to go on a second date? **** you then!") then she will be annoyed. Also if it looks like it's patronising or false flattery it won't go down well. On the paying for things, generally if I asked a girl out then I don't mind paying but if she offers to pay half or says OK lets go again and I'll pay next time, I won't argue I will allow that. If I was going out with a girl that I knew had less money than me (eg a student doing her Masters who was struggling to cover living costs and fees) then I would say look its ok I'm in full time work let me cover paying for stuff, but if it was a girl with a similar level job to me I wouldn't.
If I'm walking up the stairs in a train station and a woman has a big case and is struggling to lift it up I'll say "hey there, would you like some help with that?" and usually they say yes and I'll carry the case up and make a bit of friendly chat and then wish them a nice day, they are always cool with it. I think if you do that and then try and use it as a lead in to one of those pick-up things going "so hey how about give me your number" then it changes the vibe and she will think it was done for manipulative purposes.
I know some guys on TSR like to make out that you can't do stuff like this for a woman without being accused of being sexist, but that doesn't happen in the real world, I think what's happening there is those guys are doing it in a way that is sexist, or are doing otherwise sexist things.
It's a general point I have about those on here that say you can't do anything without being accused of being sexist....I wonder how I manage to go through life doing generous things to women, chatting to them, forming friendships, relationships, dating and so on and never get accused of being sexist...? The world is not some anti-male conspiracy out to get you.
Original post by SerenityNow
Or offer to change a flat tire for her if she had a car? Again, not something I would do with a male friend,
What we have learnt from this thread: you suck as a friend.
About 10 years ago I got a phone call from a friend in the middle of the night. He has a flat tyre and didn't know how to change it.
I got in the car, drove 10 miles, got covered in mud changing his tyre in the dark in the pissing rain on the side of the road, then drove home again. Because that's what friends do. Without ever asking for anything in return.
Its nice to do nice things for people, but do it equally for everyone. Don't be a useless sexist ****.
It depends on your own views of the sexes/genders. Do you think it's wrong that you treat women differently?
Personally I don't think it is. I'm an advocate for the traditional gender roles so I might be biased. When I've been out with guys as mates they paid for the things we did/ate/whatever. Actually, now that I think about it I wonder if those were actually dates.
I didn't make a big thing out of it because they just willingly did it, like it's a "moral obligation" kind of thing. Radical gender equality doesn't faze me.
I love how you call it "benevolent sexism". That sounds like something I'd come up with.
I don't think it's benevolent or sexist. Benevolence is a certain type of goodness. It's more "chivalrous sexism", if that makes sense. When it comes to this, I think the woman and the man each have their traditional individual gender roles and taking the lead is something that comes under the male's role as the presumed dominant figure. If we're talking about individual acts like paying for things or changing a flat tyre then we need to look at the context. E.g. A man will change another man's flat tyre if he doesn't know how to do it himself. Guys tend to learn to do things like that because it's quite a dominant (read: self-sufficient) thing to do. Most women don't think to learn to change flat tyres because they usually know a guy who can do it for them.
Whether we like it or not almost everyone still holds those traditional values of individual male/female roles. If you're in a relationship where you're both as self-sufficient or traditionally "dominant" as each other then certain behaviours/thoughts might seem more sexist to you than others, but for people who happily accept their traditional gender roles those behaviours might be completely normal and expected. It's one of those grey-area things where there isn't a clear-cut answer - only your/society's opinion.
Personally I don't think it is. I'm an advocate for the traditional gender roles so I might be biased. When I've been out with guys as mates they paid for the things we did/ate/whatever. Actually, now that I think about it I wonder if those were actually dates.
I didn't make a big thing out of it because they just willingly did it, like it's a "moral obligation" kind of thing. Radical gender equality doesn't faze me.I love how you call it "benevolent sexism". That sounds like something I'd come up with.
I don't think it's benevolent or sexist. Benevolence is a certain type of goodness. It's more "chivalrous sexism", if that makes sense. When it comes to this, I think the woman and the man each have their traditional individual gender roles and taking the lead is something that comes under the male's role as the presumed dominant figure. If we're talking about individual acts like paying for things or changing a flat tyre then we need to look at the context. E.g. A man will change another man's flat tyre if he doesn't know how to do it himself. Guys tend to learn to do things like that because it's quite a dominant (read: self-sufficient) thing to do. Most women don't think to learn to change flat tyres because they usually know a guy who can do it for them.Whether we like it or not almost everyone still holds those traditional values of individual male/female roles. If you're in a relationship where you're both as self-sufficient or traditionally "dominant" as each other then certain behaviours/thoughts might seem more sexist to you than others, but for people who happily accept their traditional gender roles those behaviours might be completely normal and expected. It's one of those grey-area things where there isn't a clear-cut answer - only your/society's opinion.
In society, women are supposed to be different than men, therefore to be differently treated. This has nothing to do with equal rights so back off, feminazi.
I would be flattered to be courted/given special attention/being asked if I need help/whateva. I appreciate chivalry and gentlemen manners - I don't take it as OMG you think I'm the weaker sex! I take it as - well, that's nice, I appreciate it and you are a fine, well educated man.
I would be flattered to be courted/given special attention/being asked if I need help/whateva. I appreciate chivalry and gentlemen manners - I don't take it as OMG you think I'm the weaker sex! I take it as - well, that's nice, I appreciate it and you are a fine, well educated man.
Original post by MagicNMedicine
If I'm walking up the stairs in a train station and a woman has a big case and is struggling to lift it up I'll say "hey there, would you like some help with that?" and usually they say yes and I'll carry the case up and make a bit of friendly chat and then wish them a nice day, they are always cool with it.
If this were a (weaker looking) man struggling with a big case, would you make the same offer?
Original post by SerenityNow
Like paying for dates. I wouldn't do it for a mate, except for special occasions. So the only reason I would do it is because she's a woman I'm dating, therefore singling out her gender. On top of that, what if I got up from the table when she walked in or helped her with her chair? Or walked her to her house to make sure she is safe? Or offer to change a flat tire for her if she had a car? Again, not something I would do with a male friend, so only because she is a woman. Are young women put off by benevolent sexism or do they love it as much as their mothers and grandmothers did?
Will she do any of those things for you? If she doesn't then there's no point you doing them either
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