Why does no-one take the MRM seriously?
[Men's Rights Movement]
I can understand why you may not take me seriously but I've observed several colleagues on this site slay arguments with data showing that MRA is not just the reserve of 'bitter friend zoned virgins'. No naming of names until they step forward
1) An introductory video on male disposability and utility-'Men' cannot be victims, only aggressors. Male victims are job titles i.e. utilities, not a social group or even individuals
[video="youtube;6ZAuqkqxk9A"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZAuqkqxk9A[/video]
2) PDF attached-the role that 'Disney princess mentality' (rising levels of entitlement complex and narcissism) has in shaping young women's attitudes towards men. Benevolent sexism-endorsing patriarchy when the system benefits them, then dismissing the disenfranchised
3) Hypergamy and victim mentality in the tabloids (remember that the layman is an avid reader of this)-http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1020798/Why-DO-clever-women-fall-second-rate-men.html
quotes:Logic would, or should, dictate that a high-flying woman who has everything going for her (looks, talent, drive) should,
by definition, attract a man who is her equal, if not her superior, in terms of looks, intellect and wealth. Yet in my experience, this is simply not the case. Translation: 'I am such an attractive woman why are all the men who like me vermin'
proceeds to construct low-status men as abusers: 'Typically, men want lower status women because they feel they can control them. It can be threatening for a man if their partner has a higher IQ because they will often feel that makes the woman more desirable than they are themselves.
'That's when a man is likely to be unfaithful or aggressive as a means of asserting control over the woman.
Stupid articles like this make it difficult to take all victims of abuse seriously, when it's a truly tragic event irrespective of gender.
4) Comments section on Guardian http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/thinking-man/11395576/Men-are-now-objectified-more-than-women.html#disqus_thread
'When it's men, they deserve it. When it's women, they are victims.
A lack of concern for the well being of men is the norm. Over concern for the well being of women is also the norm. Everybody cares more about women than they do about men. Western society goes out of its way to elevate women regardless of its cost to men. We tear men down as a means of building up women.
All of women's shortcomings are a result of oppression. All of men's shortcomings are their own fault.
Media is constantly teaching women, and Disney is now teaching female children, to belittle men and boys and to hold them nearly constantly in contempt.
It is oppressive to disagree with #likeagril, but it's not OK to think it's wrong to have a society which is constantly treating the male sex as oppressors, and now oppressors who are deserving of their objectification, or as bumbling, incompetent bafoons.'
I can understand why you may not take me seriously but I've observed several colleagues on this site slay arguments with data showing that MRA is not just the reserve of 'bitter friend zoned virgins'. No naming of names until they step forward
1) An introductory video on male disposability and utility-'Men' cannot be victims, only aggressors. Male victims are job titles i.e. utilities, not a social group or even individuals
[video="youtube;6ZAuqkqxk9A"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZAuqkqxk9A[/video]
2) PDF attached-the role that 'Disney princess mentality' (rising levels of entitlement complex and narcissism) has in shaping young women's attitudes towards men. Benevolent sexism-endorsing patriarchy when the system benefits them, then dismissing the disenfranchised
3) Hypergamy and victim mentality in the tabloids (remember that the layman is an avid reader of this)-http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1020798/Why-DO-clever-women-fall-second-rate-men.html
quotes:Logic would, or should, dictate that a high-flying woman who has everything going for her (looks, talent, drive) should,
by definition, attract a man who is her equal, if not her superior, in terms of looks, intellect and wealth. Yet in my experience, this is simply not the case. Translation: 'I am such an attractive woman why are all the men who like me vermin'
proceeds to construct low-status men as abusers: 'Typically, men want lower status women because they feel they can control them. It can be threatening for a man if their partner has a higher IQ because they will often feel that makes the woman more desirable than they are themselves.
'That's when a man is likely to be unfaithful or aggressive as a means of asserting control over the woman.
Spoiler
Stupid articles like this make it difficult to take all victims of abuse seriously, when it's a truly tragic event irrespective of gender.
4) Comments section on Guardian http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/thinking-man/11395576/Men-are-now-objectified-more-than-women.html#disqus_thread
'When it's men, they deserve it. When it's women, they are victims.
A lack of concern for the well being of men is the norm. Over concern for the well being of women is also the norm. Everybody cares more about women than they do about men. Western society goes out of its way to elevate women regardless of its cost to men. We tear men down as a means of building up women.
All of women's shortcomings are a result of oppression. All of men's shortcomings are their own fault.
Media is constantly teaching women, and Disney is now teaching female children, to belittle men and boys and to hold them nearly constantly in contempt.
It is oppressive to disagree with #likeagril, but it's not OK to think it's wrong to have a society which is constantly treating the male sex as oppressors, and now oppressors who are deserving of their objectification, or as bumbling, incompetent bafoons.'
(edited 9 years ago)
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Same reason white racism isn't really taken seriously (not that I believe it shouldn't).
Our problems are miniscule in comparison.
Our problems are miniscule in comparison.
Original post by Smash Bandicoot
I can understand why you may not take me seriously but I've observed several colleagues on this site slay arguments with data showing that MRA is not just the reserve of 'bitter friend zoned virgins'. No naming of names until they step forward
We need to know what MRM is?
Original post by Rakas21
We need to know what MRM is?
Men's Rights Movement
Original post by Smash Bandicoot
Men's Rights Movement
Ah.
Because the right don't do protests ect.. and the left believe that all straight white males are the devil.
I'd take men's rights activists seriously if they actually did something other than harass women on the internet.
Paternity leave, male rape victims being taken seriously, discussions around how harmful super-super "macho" masculinity can be for young boys, how "lad culture"/"peer pressure"/whatever it's called these days can make shyer guys' lives unnecessarily more difficult, men seen as "sissies" if they talk about their feelings... and yet...
Paternity leave, male rape victims being taken seriously, discussions around how harmful super-super "macho" masculinity can be for young boys, how "lad culture"/"peer pressure"/whatever it's called these days can make shyer guys' lives unnecessarily more difficult, men seen as "sissies" if they talk about their feelings... and yet...
Original post by Rakas21
the left believe that all straight white males are the devil.
Well, if we're to go down that road historically speaking, wouldn't you say that white male people have caused a fair amount of grief?
Original post by молодой гений
I'd take men's rights activists seriously if they actually did something other than harass women on the internet.
Paternity leave, male rape victims being taken seriously, discussions around how harmful super-super "macho" masculinity can be for young boys, how "lad culture"/"peer pressure"/whatever it's called these days can make shyer guys' lives unnecessarily more difficult, men seen as "sissies" if they talk about their feelings... and yet...
Paternity leave, male rape victims being taken seriously, discussions around how harmful super-super "macho" masculinity can be for young boys, how "lad culture"/"peer pressure"/whatever it's called these days can make shyer guys' lives unnecessarily more difficult, men seen as "sissies" if they talk about their feelings... and yet...
fair enough I respect that point and agree
Original post by молодой гений
Well, if we're to go down that road historically speaking, wouldn't you say that white male people have caused a fair amount of grief?
Between the Greeks, Romans and British i'd say they've brought glory.
I make no apology for our actions towards women or minorities.
if MRAs stood up for trans men, black men, disabled men, campaigned for paternity rights, cared about male suicide rates more often than just using it to score points, actually did something other than harass feminists on the Internet then Id have more respect for them
Posted from TSR Mobile
Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by Odd socks
if MRAs stood up for trans men, black men, disabled men, campaigned for paternity rights, cared about male suicide rates more often than just using it to score points, actually did something other than harass feminists on the Internet then Id have more respect for them
Posted from TSR Mobile
Posted from TSR Mobile
some MRAs do (I won't pretend for a second myself at present because I don't know enough) but male utility and disposability is as entrenched in society as misogyny and objectification is
Original post by Rakas21
Between the Greeks, Romans and British i'd say they've brought glory.
I make no apology for our actions towards women or minorities.
I make no apology for our actions towards women or minorities.
How nice it must be, to be wilfully ignorant of world history.
A crude example of encouraging male disposability and control in relationships in pop-culture: Olly Murs-'Wrapped Up'
lyrics http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/ollymurs/wrappedup.html
lyrics http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/ollymurs/wrappedup.html
Original post by Truths
Because it started off as a parody movement on the web.
But some people didn't catch the satire, I guess.
But some people didn't catch the satire, I guess.
do you have a neutral source for that assertion?
They are not taken seriously because they show serious and sometimes wilful misunderstandings of cultural theory, historical context and the operation of privilege. Apart from being anti-intellectual, they take specious evidence from sources ranging from misogynistic comedians to red pill theory etc etc. Instead of addressing male-specific issues, even a cursory glance at online mens rights forums reveals a raging hatred of feminism and they spend all their time discussing feminism's supposed satanic character and no time talking about how to deal with issues men's face in contemporary society.
Moreover, they are usually biological essentialists and possess no understanding of sex and gender. Just a group of ill-educated men who don't like their privileges being challenged. On the issue of Karen Straughan's 'disposable male', /r/badhistory did a thread about it, and echoing her acolytes, her arguments are flimsy, presentist, and on the whole a poor mixture of bad history and anthropology.
Moreover, they are usually biological essentialists and possess no understanding of sex and gender. Just a group of ill-educated men who don't like their privileges being challenged. On the issue of Karen Straughan's 'disposable male', /r/badhistory did a thread about it, and echoing her acolytes, her arguments are flimsy, presentist, and on the whole a poor mixture of bad history and anthropology.
Original post by generaljonny
They are not taken seriously because they show serious and sometimes wilful misunderstandings of cultural theory, historical context and the operation of privilege. Apart from being anti-intellectual, they take specious evidence from sources ranging from misogynistic comedians to red pill theory etc etc. Instead of addressing male-specific issues, even a cursory glance at online mens rights forums reveals a raging hatred of feminism and they spend all their time discussing feminism's supposed satanic character and no time talking about how to deal with issues men's face in contemporary society.
Moreover, they are usually biological essentialists and possess no understanding of sex and gender. Just a group of ill-educated men who don't like their privileges being challenged. On the issue of Karen Straughan's 'disposable male', /r/badhistory did a thread about it, and echoing her acolytes, her arguments are flimsy, presentist, and on the whole a poor mixture of bad history and anthropology.
Moreover, they are usually biological essentialists and possess no understanding of sex and gender. Just a group of ill-educated men who don't like their privileges being challenged. On the issue of Karen Straughan's 'disposable male', /r/badhistory did a thread about it, and echoing her acolytes, her arguments are flimsy, presentist, and on the whole a poor mixture of bad history and anthropology.
Can you assert bolded statements?
Of course it's an imperfect movement, and it has many embittered individuals who just want to rant. However MRA is one of the few if not the only movement which has the power to deal with men's rights. I know of no other I'm excluding feminism, because (see attachment re: HeForShe as an example). Also to generalise all MRAs as such is the same as to demonise all feminists as midsandrists.
Please link to r/badhistory on male disposability?
http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=359967&d=1422682193
OK I had a brief look at r/bad history, well ofc the suffragette movement was progressive, I would imagine most MRA gripes are to do with 3rd wave feminism where the power balance began to tip
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Smash Bandicoot
do you have a neutral source for that assertion?
Lemme remind you of how the whole internet movement was resurrected.
Could 2015 be the year when downtrodden men finally grow a pair, rise up against the tyranny of modern feminism and cry, “I’m a meninist – and I demand equality!”It’s enough to get any self-righteous feminist choking on their quinoa and checking to make sure it isn’t April 1st – except that the meninist movement is actually happening in the real world.
Under the Twitter hashtag #MeninstTwitter, an online sexual revolution is gathering steam – and it’s ruffling more feathers than Bernard Matthews at the Vegetarian Society’s Xmas bash.
Oddest of all, nobody can work out whether it could possibly the beginnings of serious men’s movement or just another flash-in-the-pan parody [...]
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/thinking-man/11308455/Will-2015-be-the-year-of-meninism.html
Under the Twitter hashtag #MeninstTwitter, an online sexual revolution is gathering steam – and it’s ruffling more feathers than Bernard Matthews at the Vegetarian Society’s Xmas bash.
Oddest of all, nobody can work out whether it could possibly the beginnings of serious men’s movement or just another flash-in-the-pan parody [...]
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/thinking-man/11308455/Will-2015-be-the-year-of-meninism.html
Some people believe that MRA started as a mockery of feminism, but from what I remember it mostly turned into a mockery of men quite frankly. It reminds me off that whole "Anti-racist is really code for anti-white" movement that was spammed all over youtube comment sections 2012. Nobody was sure if it was satire or not, but people who there were people who were dumb enough actually buy into it. But after #gamergate I think people are done listening to MRA tbh. Well I'm bored of it.
Original post by Truths
Lemme remind you of how the whole internet movement was resurrected.
Some people believe that MRA started as a mockery of feminism, but from what I remember it mostly turned into a mockery of men quite frankly. It reminds me off that whole "Anti-racist is really code for anti-white" movement that was spammed all over youtube comment sections 2012. Nobody was sure if it was satire or not, but people who there were people who were dumb enough actually buy into it. But after #gamergate I think people are done listening to MRA tbh. Well I'm bored of it.
The Telegraph is not really a neutral source, it's a fairly right wing conservative one in favour of traditional masculinity etc. I mean the latest article I read re: 'men get objectified, real men don't care, man up and hit the gym' is basically Redpill for the masses
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