American Football Talk II

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I've watched a bit of UCF Knights because Bortles and Storm Johnson (7th Round HB) came from there last year. They're a fun watch. College games are just fun. I watched Alabama play Florida Atlantic in something like a 56-3 blowout and even that was a decent watch. If that happened in the NFL it would have been terrible.

P.S. I have no fan gear, I have the Cowboys v Jags International Series beanie hat but nothing more. You literally can't buy a Jags jersey for the current roster because you have no idea if the players are going to be there in a few years time. The only Jags legend is Tony Boselli, he was a tackle, nobody wants the jersey of an OT. I'd argue that support and knowledge makes the fan rather than their stuff.

One of our team mates had a MJD jersey. You could probably get a reebok version of that pretty cheap.

Original post by Wattsy

He's actually awesome. He's done about as much justifying his draft position as is humanly possible for a punter in the 3rd. When a team punts as much as Jax have in the last 3 years the punter is an important dude!

Of course. But, hopefully they won't have to punt as much. Maybe I was a year early thinking the Jags would compete in the AFC-south, but I genuinely think, that they are a feature running back, a couple of corners, a free safety, and filling in a few holes on the o-line is all that they need. (they have a good strong safety, and the corner which they picked up in the last draft has done well...) They are primed, if they make the right free agency acquisitions, and they can gain depth .

I am really high on Paul Posluszny. (would be a good jersey pickup, btw)...since he is the perfect 4-3 middle linebacker. (Great on my fantasy team as well... :biggrin:

), and the middle linebacker they picked up last year has really stepped up in his absence. Jacksonville have a very good front seven, and it would be ridiculous if they replace Chris Clemons with someone like Randy Gregory in the draft.

What if, for example, Orlando Franklin was to leave Denver. Does Zane Beadles have a word in the Jacksonville GM's ear to sign him? He would be a great pickup (and on that note, I hope he stays a bronco.) What if Julius Thomas was to leave? Jacksonville...or pretty much every team...would try and make a run at him, for sure.

You're now IN. This block of Pats fans is getting rather large! Can't we have a Buffalo Bill or a Tennessee Titan? One of those teams that nobody supports? Instead we just have a mass of Pats fans.

Newcomers to the thread, if you have no affiliation can you please not support the Patriots? Tom Brady is going to retire soon and then the Patriots will be mortal again.

The Patriots are very popular in England because they get the most exposure and are the closest team to the UK.

Reply 521

jammy4041

Original post by MrDystopia

I just tried that and got the Pats. Again a good thing as they're my team :tongue:

On that note OP, I'd appreciate being added to the first post!

On a side note, I've decided I might as well follow a college team too. Given my love for the Pats (And a soft spot for the Boston Bruins of the NHL) I think it's only prudent I follow a team based in/around Boston for that too.

You could support Boston College!

One of the best college games I saw this year was USC vs Boston College...and they destroyed them. On the ground, they had like 500 rushing yards...http://scores.espn.go.com/ncf/recap?gameId=400547730

Reply 522

MrSuavetopia

Original post by jammy4041

Sounds like that would make the most sense! :smile:

Reply 523

jammy4041

Original post by Wattsy

P.S. I have no fan gear, I have the Cowboys v Jags International Series beanie hat but nothing more. You literally can't buy a Jags jersey for the current roster because you have no idea if the players are going to be there in a few years time. The only Jags legend is Tony Boselli, he was a tackle, nobody wants the jersey of an OT. I'd argue that support and knowledge makes the fan rather than their stuff.

Just had a proper look at that note. Yeah, you are right. Knowledge and support, and a recognition of history makes the fan.

A jersey or anything else is not a substitute for that, but it was something for me to just tick off, in much the same way that ticking off going to Mile High was, or going to wembley will be. I do want one of those snapbacks and beanie, however...

Reply 524

Malevolent

Original post by jammy4041

I agree. I've met quite a few Pats fans wearing jerseys so I tried to strike up a conversation and they only thing they could tell me was about Tom Brady. Asked them about the Bruschi jersey and they literally had no idea who he was...

I want that Tom Brady Beanie but so many people have bought it that its such an expensive item on sale.

I'm a Uconn fan myself :tongue:

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 525

Dprince

Who sees Oakland, Jets and Browns taking WRs first round?

I'm a 49er fan and it looks like Oakland might take Cooper, Jets White and Browns Parker Jr. I'm happy to take the risk with Dorial Green-Beckham but if there was a situation in which the Jets cut their losses with Geno Smith and Vick and get either Mariota or Winston, I could see Kevin White being available a bit further down the board.

Reply 526

SmashConcept

I honestly think that the Browns have to get a quarterback. Pretty hilarious but true.

Reply 527

jammy4041

Here's my 5th mock. My final one before the combine, but with an eye to the combine.
http://walterfootball.com/Mocks/Mock/31968/

For the record, I don't see the Raiders, Jets, taking a WR in the first. For the Raiders, getting a DT is more of a priority, although if Knighton or Suh, or both, was to sign, then I would see them making a move for Amari Cooper.

Yes, the Browns need a new QB (what else is new?), but they need to address that through free agency. Get Vick or Locker or someone like that. Or you know, trust Hoyer. Maybe McCown will be linked with them. At the very least, it's a veteran presence to help control Wild Johnny.

I could see a situation where 3 running backs go in the first round. Jacksonville...if you want Jay Ajayi...get him in the second! The vultures are circling and they all need RBs!

It's going to be a defense/big man draft.

Spoiler

Reply 528

Wattsy

Original post by jammy4041

I could see a situation where 3 running backs go in the first round. Jacksonville...if you want Jay Ajayi...get him in the second! The vultures are circling and they all need RBs!

It's going to be a defense/big man draft.

If the Jags go RB at 3, I will cry, it's almost a guarantee that at least three of Ray/Williams/Gregory/Fowler are still on the board. I'll stick with the Gerhart/Robinson/Johnson committee over drafting an RB that high. All of those defensive guys seem plug in and play on the Jags D. Williams lined up next to Marks would be so good for interior pressure but I'd rather see him on the edge. I'm not sure you can go wrong drafting the top defensive guys this year (I haven't seen much of any of these guys so I'm going off what people are saying on mocks)

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 529

SmashConcept

Original post by jammy4041

Yes, the Browns need a new QB (what else is new?), but they need to address that through free agency. Get Vick or Locker or someone like that. Or you know, trust Hoyer. Maybe McCown will be linked with them. At the very least, it's a veteran presence to help control Wild Johnny.

Free agency is only a good choice if they think Manziel isn't ****.

Reply 530

jammy4041

Original post by Wattsy

I was talking at top of the second. Even if RB is addressed at the top of third, with someone like TJ Yeldon, that would be fine. Maybe Gerhart will show improvement, but Jacksonville shouldn't wait around for him to improve while their offense stalls. Denard Robinson is a good change of pace back, but I'd worry about his durability as a feature back. If Gerhart doesn't show that improve, Jacksonville's backfield will look as it did. Another running back would not hurt, and there are some pretty good running backs in this draft that will go rounds two to three.

I'm pretty high on Dante Fowler Jr., and had him going to your Jags. Williams I had going to the Raiders, because even though WR is a real need, they could still come back in the second for a pretty good receiver. Green-Beckham will be available in the third, maybe even at the top of the third, due to his Josh Gordon connection. I'd suggest Sammie Coates, but that's exactly the kind of receiver Al Davis would have drafted 4th overall. (Speed.)

Lions, Cardinals and Colts could easily make a move for the best three running backs in the draft. Yeah they probably have other needs to address, but they had no running game whatsoever last season, and the prospects that would make them a better team are reaches, even in the first.

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 531

jammy4041

Original post by SmashConcept

Free agency is only a good choice if they think Manziel isn't ****.

Mariota and Winston will be gone. Tampa sure aren't giving away their pick. Only if the other quarterback gets past #2, which could happen but is not really probable, do they have a chance, but they'd have to be careful of the Jets using their high pick to get him. Yes, Cleveland has the draft picks, but they'd have to come back from a long way behind.

After that, it's probably a QB in the second, if they really want...Garrett Grayson is okay...not a terrible pick...but after that...I'd take Jake Locker or Josh McCown in free agency, and lean on the running game.

Manziel was good in college, but pop on the tape, and he missed some easy ones. Let's be honest though. The only reason he went in the first and not in the second, is because Mariota and Jameis stayed in school. He said all of the right things at the Scouting combine, had nice arm strength...

Throwing the pick in the red zone against Alabama in his last college season was a real head scratcher...didn't even look for Mike Evans!

Mike Evans and that really good o-line (for college anyway) made him look better than he is. Yes, the plan was to pair him with Gordon, and yes, the Browns have some nice pieces on the o-line...but he has not coped with the transistion well.

He's young enough, and has the physical tools, but it will be interesting how he comes back next year.

Maybe it was being drafted #22 overall, by the Browns, that did him in...Brady Quinn, Brandon Weeden and Johnny Manziel.

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 532

SmashConcept

Original post by jammy4041

Mariota and Winston will be gone. Tampa sure aren't giving away their pick. Only if the other quarterback gets past #2, which is likely but not probable, do they have a chance, but they'd have to be careful of the Jets using their high pick to get him.

After that, it's probably a QB in the second, if they really want...Garrett Grayson is okay...not a terrible pick...but after that...I'd take Jake Locker or Josh McCown in free agency, and lean on the running game.

Manziel was good in college, but pop on the tape, and he missed some easy ones. Let's be honest though. The only reason he went in the first and not in the second, is because Mariota and Jameis stayed in school. He said all of the right things at the Scouting combine, had nice arm strength...

Throwing the pick in the red zone against Alabama in his last college season was a real head scratcher...didn't even look for Mike Evans!

Mike Evans and that really good o-line (for college anyway) made him look better than he is. Yes, the plan was to pair him with Gordon, and yes, the Browns have some nice pieces on the o-line...but he has not coped with the transistion well.

He's young enough, and has the physical tools, but it will be interesting how he comes back next year.

Maybe it was being drafted #22 overall, by the Browns, that did him in...Brady Quinn, Brandon Weeden and Johnny Manziel.

I disagree that he looked particularly good in college. The only reason he went in the first was because the Browns are the kind of team that would pass on Tannehill because they think Weeden is good, and would pass on Bridgewater and Carr twice because they think Manziel is good. If he didn't somehow still have hype behind him, his body of work in college and then in the NFL would be pretty clear evidence that it's time to cut losses and move on, and that's not even taking into account off-field stuff. I don't know enough about this year's QB class to comment on who they should take. The only opinion I really have is that even if I were a die hard fan of a team, I would stop supporting them if they drafted Winston. Honestly wouldn't care if that guy gets high-lowed in pre-season and never plays a snap. Maybe that's unfair, but he will always have to live with the fact that the allegations against him were never properly investigated by a police force that may as well have worn FSU jerseys instead of their uniforms.

Reply 533

cant_think_of_name

Original post by SmashConcept

I honestly think that the Browns have to get a quarterback. Pretty hilarious but true.

Yeah, but who do you get? I think what they end up doing is taking Bryce Petty, and then getting Jake Locker in FA. That way you have the veteran to hold you together, and Manziel and Petty can compete and develop together. It's not the greatest thing ever but it's about as good as they're going to get with what they have.

They should take Danny Shelton and the best WR left at 19, in my mind. The O-Line is good, the secondary is top and the running game is decent. If they can keep Jordan Cameron, then WR, QB and D-Line are the biggest needs

Reply 534

SmashConcept

Honestly I don't know any players in this draft class. I will watch some QBs leading up to the draft, for now I am going on expert opinions which are pretty meaningless. This time last year Bridgewater was the top QB, and the year before that Geno Smith was kind of battling with Matt Barkely. So yeah there is just no point in reading anything about the draft in February, and I haven't put any film on yet.

Reply 535

jammy4041

Original post by SmashConcept

I disagree that he looked particularly good in college. The only reason he went in the first was because the Browns are the kind of team that would pass on Tannehill because they think Weeden is good, and would pass on Bridgewater and Carr twice because they think Manziel is good. If he didn't somehow still have hype behind him, his body of work in college and then in the NFL would be pretty clear evidence that it's time to cut losses and move on, and that's not even taking into account off-field stuff.

I don't know enough about this year's QB class to comment on who they should take. The only opinion I really have is that even if I were a die hard fan of a team, I would stop supporting them if they drafted Winston. Honestly wouldn't care if that guy gets high-lowed in pre-season and never plays a snap. Maybe that's unfair, but he will always have to live with the fact that the allegations against him were never properly investigated by a police force that may as well have worn FSU jerseys instead of their uniforms.

We're pretty much arguing the same thing. The games I saw of Manziel...he played garbage. He played pretty good until missing a wide open Mike Evans on the Alabama 5 yard line...got an INT, and played like trash. Good NFL defenses will keep him in the pocket, where he struggles. In college, he's okay. In the NFL, he has average athleticism for his size.

From what I've seen of Jameis, he is the truth. Mariota is good, but . The rest....after Garrett Grayson is all hit and miss. We'll probably see the next good batch of QBs in the 2016 draft, maybe even after, considering the riches of the 2012 class.

With Winston..it's a tricky one. The police were basically wearing FSU jerseys, but it's tricky since the university is under jurisdiction of the FSUPD and the rest of Tallahassee by the city and state police. There is something to be uncovered, especially the conduct of the university and its compliance with Title IX, but the toxins test basically match with Jameis' story. (however, I don't know whether they were doctored or anything).

It's not good that Ronald Darby and Winston Roomate were able to conflate their stories though..

Reply 536

..DT..

When I look at Winston and Mariota I don't see the future of our franchise. Tampa will draft top 5 again next year which is embarrassing given our schedule.

Reply 537

SmashConcept

Original post by jammy4041

We're pretty much arguing the same thing. The games I saw of Manziel...he played garbage. He played pretty good until

This bold part is what I'm arguing, because I never really saw him play well. I honestly can't remember if I watched the Bama game, but what I saw in the games I watched was consistent: sloppy footwork, horrible pocket management (those on the hype train called it "genius improvisation"), mediocre accuracy on intermediate throws, used his whole body to get just enough velocity on throws that needed it (unlike Bridgewater who supposedly has a weak arm but the ball hops out of his hand with a very compact motion in a way that it doesn't for either Manziel or Bortles). Plus side was great touch on deep sideline balls that is rare for rookies and even some NFL starters to make.

I thought he was a mid round QB, and when it became apparent that Hoyer wouldn't take the Browns to the playoffs I argued that he needed a chance. He's had one, he should be done. He is nowhere near as good as Glennon or Geno Smith, for example. If the team with Glennon is a QB needy team then the Browns need to move heaven and earth to get one. IDK how.

Reply 538

SmashConcept

This is where most of my information is from re. Winston. http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/04/16/sports/errors-in-inquiry-on-rape-allegations-against-fsu-jameis-winston.html?_r=0

If there are reliable sources that cast him in a more favourable light I would happily read them.

Reply 539

SmashConcept

of note:

A month before the rape accusation became public, the university’s victim advocate learned that a second woman had sought counseling after a sexual encounter with Mr. Winston, according to the prosecutor’s office. The woman did not call it rape — she did not say “no.” But the encounter, not previously reported, “was of such a nature that she felt violated or felt that she needed to seek some type of counseling for her emotions about the experience,” according to Georgia Cappleman, the chief assistant state attorney, who said she had spoken with the advocate but not with the woman.