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Finding jobs as a history graduate. 2 years on and can't find a permanent job :/

To summarise where I am, I am a recent graduate (2013) in Modern History from the University of St Andrews. Since graduation, I completed a PGCert in Genealogical, Palaeographic and Heraldic Studies. I have also undertaken 18 months of unpaid work experience once a week in a Local Government Archive. This has allowed me to successfully earn a place on a distance-learning MLitt Archives & Records Management course. I am currently a paid intern in a local museum, where I recruit volunteers in addition to other museum work.

My trouble is I worry about my future. I am applying to many archives-related jobs but they are often far away down south and I know employers would be more likely to consider someone closer by. Many of those jobs are temporary. I am also restricted by the Masters course I will be starting soon. It requires that I spend at least 2 days a week working in an archive centre. So either I find a job at an archive or I have to find jobs which allow me 2 days a week in order to complete my Masters course....and I have to pay for the course (it costs about £7,000 for 2 and a half years). I have saved up £2,000 so far.

I am 25 now and I'm desperate to find some job security. I just want to feel like I am settled in a job so I can move out of my parents' house. I am getting a little bit bored living at home after university and long to move to a city somewhere for a change. I want to live in a city as it's the kind of lifestyle I am after and as long as I enjoy the job, it pays enough for me to move out and live the lifestyle, I will be happy.


I graduated after 6 years at university; longer than usual. This was because of mental health issues. Prior to university, I suffered from depression and anxiety and this continued through my studies. I also had persistent panic attacks for a few years. In the 1st year at university, I dated a guy who was abusive to me and this also set my health back a bit and I had to seek therapy. Anyway I am not depressed any more and my mental health has improved a lot. But it's meant I graduated later and I wonder how this looks to employers. I don't feel comfortable talking about my past health history with them at all. My grades were also affected by my mental health issues.

If anyone has any advice on how I can move forward, I would very much appreciate it :smile: Even just a pick me up to tell me to keep going would be really good :biggrin:

Thanks everyone :biggrin:

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I think you're being really hard on yourself, hun. From the sound of things, you're doing amazing! I'm sure your CV looks superb with all your qualifications and great work experience. You're doing a fantastic intern at the moment and you have your master's to look forward to. Your life sounds great and a lot of people would love to be in your shoes. I think you're worrying too much :smile:. Be positive about yourself and what's going on in your life. I don't think employers will take any notice that you took longer to do your degree, and if they do just explain to them, you have nothing to be ashamed about. Your work and education sounds inspiring and you sound extremely intelligent and motivated. You should be so proud of yourself. :smile:
Reply 2
Aw thank you. I'm just finding it really hard to get into the line of work I want to. But what you said made me feel a bit happier. Thank you :smile:

I'm just feeling really that I don't want to live on minimum wage for the rest of my life. And I want to earn enough to move out of my parents' house and maybe to a city somewhere. It's okay being back in my hometown but I'm ambitious to move somewhere else when I'm young and I still can.

So I'm just applying for anything that looks like something I'd enjoy even if it doesn't fit the career goals I aspire to.

I also feel like I want to get into a relationship and eventually settle down but I just can't when in my head I want to live somewhere else and I'm applying to jobs here there and everywhere :/

Like you said, I should turn the freedom I have now into a positive because I won't have that freedom forever. It's so scary making decisions about your future!
Reply 3
is working in archives and museums what you really want to do? History is a really academic degree and respected by employers of many sectors. I'm also a history student and my research tells me that a lot of top employers welcomem history degrees?
Reply 4
is working in archives and museums what you really want to do? History is a really academic degree and respected by employers of many sectors. I'm also a history student and my research tells me that a lot of top employers welcomem history degrees?
I just read the tittle and almost cried a little, I'm going to be doing history next year and really need a job!! I'll go into a business though so there are more jobs available, worst case scenario ill do a law conversion. Good luck OP, I'm sure something will come along!
Original post by MJlover
is working in archives and museums what you really want to do? History is a really academic degree and respected by employers of many sectors. I'm also a history student and my research tells me that a lot of top employers welcomem history degrees?


I'm from a similar discipline (Philosophy) and in the world outside of uni this 'respect' for degrees is non-existent for me and a lot of other people. I leave my degree off my CV now (I graduated in 2012) because it hinders my applications.

OP, your situation is kind of similar to mine except I graduated 3 years ago and have done loads of temp min wage work ever since. I graduated (as did you) into a recession and finding work has been almost impossible, it's been pretty soul destroying actually. I've had to take whatever I could get and it's basically meant having to do work that I could have done at 16 with no qualifications and I've also had to sign on at the job center between my temp jobs. This has been my situation for the past 3 years.

I'm a lot more aware of the reality of life now and how useless my degree actually is in reality. I applied to a Librarianship MA last year as a means of trying make use of my degree and get better work but after giving it a lot of thought I turned down the offer because it costs £6k and there is absolutely no guarantee of a job at the end of it. The library sector is tanking, quite honestly, there are a lot of cuts going on at the moment resulting in less jobs, fewer well paid positions and mostly internal vacancies only and most of them are just Part Time. I started searching jobs boards and there is practically nothing in the Library sector. As I say, most of the jobs are part time and the wages aren't enough to live on and the sector is over subscribed and ridiculously competitive - much like archives.

After 3 years of this I've decided to go back to uni to do an NHS funded degree and become a nurse. It's something I was looking into during my degree (and I unsuccessfully I applied to Medicine before I did my Philosophy degree) but I was too afraid to drop out and start over again. In hindsight it would have been the best option. Personally, I've had enough of trying to force a way through to permanent full time employment with a degree that has absolutely zero relevance in the job market - it offers no practical skills that employers can immediately recognize. Time management/hard working nature/ability to read and write are all demonstrated by previous experience and my secondary education - my degree offers nothing special. No one is crying out for Philosophers. As 25 year old I can now see how useless it is but when I was 18 I embarked upon it with the best intentions, naively.

I don't want to discourage you at all but I think you should consider why you are doing the MA and make sure you have researched the job market and are clear on what roles are available/what you could apply to. With the economy the way it is, you need to make sure that there is a very good chance of employment from whatever qualification you decide to go ahead with - especially when you are using all your savings for it.

My advice would be to look into educational avenues that are government funded which also have HIGH EMPLOYMENT rates e.g. teaching or health related courses.

I hope it all works out for you regardless of whatever you pursue - you're in almost the exact same position as myself and I know how it feels.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Zachary T-H
I just read the tittle and almost cried a little, I'm going to be doing history next year and really need a job!! I'll go into a business though so there are more jobs available, worst case scenario ill do a law conversion. Good luck OP, I'm sure something will come along!


Make sure you can afford the Law conversion if that is a route you are genuinely considering as a back up plan. That was one of my considerations in my final year of uni but the fees at BBP and The College of Law are extortionate and then you have to do the LPC which again costs a load of money. Plus you need living expenses. There's no way on earth I could afford it. When you say 'go into a business' - that is very very vague, it doesn't mean anything to be honest.

I don't mean to be negative at all and I'm not meaning to put you down but no one told me or my course mates any of this before we went to uni - it was as if we were just cattle being pushed through the system - and now most of us are either underemployed or unemployed. Please don't stick your head in the sand about it. Hopefully the recession will be over by the time you graduate.
Reply 8
Original post by MJlover
is working in archives and museums what you really want to do? History is a really academic degree and respected by employers of many sectors. I'm also a history student and my research tells me that a lot of top employers welcomem history degrees?


Yeah I'm starting to think that.

Thing is I've done a whole year of unpaid work experience in an archive in order to get onto a distance-learning masters degree in Archives & Records Management. The masters requires that I spend at least two days a week working in an archive. It takes 2 and a half years to complete. So I am somewhat tied. That basically limits me over the next two years to either work part time in another job that would leave me two days to work on my course; or get into a full time job in an archives centre. I would very much like to get a full time job in an archives centre and this would involve moving; but the jobs are very hard to get. Saying that, I've had interviews for archive jobs before so I know I can at least get in the running.

At the same time, I've researched the profession and already had conversations with professionally qualified archivists. I know that archive graduates are getting more numerous in a profession in which there aren't many openings. I know some qualified archivists go from contract to contract and there aren't many permanent job openings. I'm interested in information management in general so I'm going to think outside the box a bit and look for other jobs in that area that aren't necessarily based in an archive. Part of the reason I like the idea of that particular masters course is that I can relate it, vocationally, to other career paths which require similar skills. This would limit the risk for me as doing this masters will be an investment of my limited money (I'm a lower earner) and of my time : so if it has broader appeal on a CV, the better for me.

I'm thinking now of continuing to apply to archive-related posts but also applying to graduate schemes so I have other potential options to consider as my future is at stake really. The fact that this masters I'm signed onto starting soon has those working requirements is affecting it a little. I really want to establish financial independence of job security.

Perhaps I need to set myself a limit on how long I'm going to pursue the archive-related career track?

Ahhh I'm just utterly confused right now.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Lucia.
.


I forgot to mention - if you're interested in Infomation Management, the NHS have a grad scheme and you won't have to pay to get the qualification!!

Check out the green box at the bottom of this page:

http://www.nhsgraduates.co.uk/
Original post by somethingbeautiful
I'm from a similar discipline (Philosophy) and in the world outside of uni this 'respect' for degrees is non-existent for me and a lot of other people. I leave my degree off my CV now (I graduated in 2012) because it hinders my applications.

OP, your situation is kind of similar to mine except I graduated 3 years ago and have done loads of temp min wage work ever since. I graduated (as did you) into a recession and finding work has been almost impossible, it's been pretty soul destroying actually. I've had to take whatever I could get and it's basically meant having to do work that I could have done at 16 with no qualifications and I've also had to sign on at the job center between my temp jobs. This has been my situation for the past 3 years.

I'm a lot more aware of the reality of life now and how useless my degree actually is in reality. I applied to a Librarianship MA last year as a means of trying make use of my degree and get better work but after giving it a lot of thought I turned down the offer because it costs £6k and there is absolutely no guarantee of a job at the end of it. The library sector is tanking, quite honestly, there are a lot of cuts going on at the moment resulting in less jobs, fewer well paid positions and mostly internal vacancies only and most of them are just Part Time. I started searching jobs boards and there is practically nothing in the Library sector. As I say, most of the jobs are part time and the wages aren't enough to live on and the sector is over subscribed and ridiculously competitive - much like archives.

After 3 years of this I've decided to go back to uni to do an NHS funded degree and become a nurse. It's something I was looking into during my degree (and I unsuccessfully I applied to Medicine before I did my Philosophy degree) but I was too afraid to drop out and start over again. In hindsight it would have been the best option. Personally, I've had enough of trying to force a way through to permanent full time employment with a degree that has absolutely zero relevance in the job market - it offers no practical skills that employers can immediately recognize. Time management/hard working nature/ability to read and write are all demonstrated by previous experience and my secondary education - my degree offers nothing special. No one is crying out for Philosophers. As 25 year old I can now see how useless it is but when I was 18 I embarked upon it with the best intentions, naively.

I don't want to discourage you at all but I think you should consider why you are doing the MA and make sure you have researched the job market and are clear on what roles are available/what you could apply to. With the economy the way it is, you need to make sure that there is a very good chance of employment from whatever qualification you decide to go ahead with - especially when you are using all your savings for it.

My advice would be to look into educational avenues that are government funded which also have HIGH EMPLOYMENT rates e.g. teaching or health related courses.

I hope it all works out for you regardless of whatever you pursue - you're in almost the exact same position as myself and I know how it feels.


so what degrees do employers accept? who actually gets hired on the strength of their degree subject?
Hey Lucia.

I know how you feel. I recently graduated last year. There is little job security, I can't get a decent job without connections and it feels like it's easier to get a job at 16 than it is now. I'm also not confident enough so I don't do well in Interviews or assessment days.

I'm too qualified for roles, or I'm under qualified.
Original post by Lucia.
So either I find a job at an archive or I have to find jobs which allow me 2 days a week in order to complete my Masters course....and I have to pay for the course (it costs about £7,000 for 2 and a half years). I have saved up £2,000 so far.


If you are unable to start the course, I think there are strong legal arguments against the claim you will have to pay for the entire programme. If you do end up in that situation, speak to your local Citizens Advice Bureau and they will be able to help you formulate a response to the university's demands.

I am 25 now and I'm desperate to find some job security. I just want to feel like I am settled in a job so I can move out of my parents' house. I am getting a little bit bored living at home after university and long to move to a city somewhere for a change. I want to live in a city as it's the kind of lifestyle I am after and as long as I enjoy the job, it pays enough for me to move out and live the lifestyle, I will be happy.


Have you tried getting work in non-archival areas? At least, while you wait until you successfully get a job in your field
Original post by somethingbeautiful
Make sure you can afford the Law conversion if that is a route you are genuinely considering as a back up plan. That was one of my considerations in my final year of uni but the fees at BBP and The College of Law are extortionate and then you have to do the LPC which again costs a load of money. Plus you need living expenses. There's no way on earth I could afford it. When you say 'go into a business' - that is very very vague, it doesn't mean anything to be honest.

I don't mean to be negative at all and I'm not meaning to put you down but no one told me or my course mates any of this before we went to uni - it was as if we were just cattle being pushed through the system - and now most of us are either underemployed or unemployed. Please don't stick your head in the sand about it. Hopefully the recession will be over by the time you graduate.


What do you reckon the cost of all that would be? i have about £35k saved up but there is also this alleged change in funding for loans for further study if the conservatives get in again. By go into business I mean go into one of those graduate jobs that require no specific degree (just a 2:1). I was considering something like marketing, If I can get a summer placement they might offer me a job! The propaganda they give out about history degrees is that fresh graduates are quite employable, it has a better employment rate than may other degrees and higher average starting salaries. I think most graduates are in the same boat at the moment though!
Original post by MJlover
so what degrees do employers accept? who actually gets hired on the strength of their degree subject?


I honestly wish I could tell you that but from my experience and the experience of everyone I know my age with a degree - your degree does not matter a jot in terms of your employability. I know that is a risky thing to write on TSR but outside in the real work it's the truth and it's taken me a long time to come to terms with that after all of the hard work I put in at school/college/uni. But experience counts for more than qualifications in the real world. There are some exceptions:


1)Vocational degrees that lead to a particular job (i.e. Health related, teaching, etc possibly Law but that is a tricky one). These are useful and will likely get you employment. I don't know a single med/nursing grad who is unemployed. Yes this is just my experience and I'm sure there are some - but I'm just talking about what I can see around me in my life and this appears to be the case. People who did vocational degrees tend to be employed, not only that BUT they are employed in the sector that they wanted to be employed/that they studying in - unlike people like me (humanities/arts grads) who end up in retail/factory/manual labor etc (in other words - underemployed, not relevant work to their degree, not utilizing their intellect, not reaching their potential)

2) Its true that it's more who you know not what you know (i.e. doesn't matter if you qualify with a useless degree if your Dad is a CEO at some company etc)

If I was 18 now I would still go to uni because the other option right now is not good due to the economy (dole or min wage) but I would do a vocational degree and forget about prestige and academia. I went to a top 30 to do a traditional subject because I thought it was 'sensible' because I'd been stuck in the educational system for 14 years and hadn't got a clue about the real world and definitely had no clue about how brutal the real world is in a recession.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Zachary T-H
What do you reckon the cost of all that would be? i have about £35k saved up but there is also this alleged change in funding for loans for further study if the conservatives get in again. By go into business I mean go into one of those graduate jobs that require no specific degree (just a 2:1). I was considering something like marketing, If I can get a summer placement they might offer me a job! The propaganda they give out about history degrees is that fresh graduates are quite employable, it has a better employment rate than may other degrees and higher average starting salaries. I think most graduates are in the same boat at the moment though!


It's been a long time since I looked at the costs but you can get a general idea if you look, for example, on BPP's website at their GDL and LPC fees. I think £35k would cover it but it's best to check.

Definitely do a Google search of 'Graduate Marketing' jobs and read some of the listings - see if they sound like something you want to do. Unfortunately, a lot of marketing jobs seems to be commission based OTE and that isn't something for everyone.

That propaganda you mention - they told us the exact same thing about Philosophy and look where it's got me. Never take anyone else's word - people can make statistics say whatever they want to suit their interests. Do you own research, come to your own conclusions. Take a look at UNISTATS and look and the employment rates.
Reply 16
@somethingbeautiful - Thank you for taking the time to consider my question. I'll reply to your comments in turn underneath. :smile:

Original post by somethingbeautiful
I'm from a similar discipline (Philosophy) and in the world outside of uni this 'respect' for degrees is non-existent for me and a lot of other people. I leave my degree off my CV now (I graduated in 2012) because it hinders my applications.


I've realised this as well. I actually try to never mention my degree on CVs if I'm applying for customer service jobs and others in which having a degree isn't a requirement. I actually think the degree goes against me as it makes me look like I lack practical skills and work experience. I don't really have a lot of work experience apart from temporary contracts and have to bring my degree into it as otherwise there'd be gaps on my CV.

Original post by somethingbeautiful
I graduated (as did you) into a recession and finding work has been almost impossible, it's been pretty soul destroying actually. I've had to take whatever I could get and it's basically meant having to do work that I could have done at 16 with no qualifications and I've also had to sign on at the job center between my temp jobs. This has been my situation for the past 3 years.


I'm totally feeling you there! I've been graduated for 2 years now though. I also feel that I should have gotten more work experience during my degree and before I went to university. I've found it a little soul destroying but I'm also very grateful for how people have helped me (I got the museum internship as they took a shine to me and wanted to help me. The job was created for me). I've grown a backbone so I'm not going to crumble; I know the realities of the situation now. It is hard though. I just want to know I'm in a job which I enjoy and stimulates my brain and maybe pays £30k. And I want to live in a city I like...but yeah getting there is hard!

Original post by somethingbeautiful
I applied to a Librarianship MA last year as a means of trying make use of my degree and get better work but after giving it a lot of thought I turned down the offer because it costs £6k and there is absolutely no guarantee of a job at the end of it. The library sector is tanking, quite honestly, there are a lot of cuts going on at the moment resulting in less jobs, fewer well paid positions and mostly internal vacancies only and most of them are just Part Time. I started searching jobs boards and there is practically nothing in the Library sector. As I say, most of the jobs are part time and the wages aren't enough to live on and the sector is over subscribed and ridiculously competitive - much like archives.


I actually know this all too well. I met up with a few librarians when I was exploring my options. It was actually an Academic Librarian who suggested that Archives had a better likelihood of getting a job from - as she argued companies, government departments, local councils and other institutions are always in need of maintaining their archives. Whereas, with librarianship, there aren't a great many new libraries being built so it's not really an expanding sector. And if you look carefully at the sector you see that there are many graduate traineeships but not many jobs to progress to. My idea with archives is that I can spin it hopefully to appeal to any career sector which involves information management of any kind.

Original post by somethingbeautiful
Personally, I've had enough of trying to force a way through to permanent full time employment with a degree that has absolutely zero relevance in the job market - it offers no practical skills that employers can immediately recognize. Time management/hard working nature/ability to read and write are all demonstrated by previous experience and my secondary education - my degree offers nothing special. No one is crying out for Philosophers. As 25 year old I can now see how useless it is but when I was 18 I embarked upon it with the best intentions, naively.


Yeah I feel like that too. I don't want to be 40 years old and still pursuing some dream job like some struggling artist archetype :p:. I feel that more keenly because it took longer to actually earn my degree as well. The trouble as an arts graduate, is in demonstrating skills for a business environment and how to make my degree marketable to employers.

Ah I actually did read an article in the Guardian saying that many unemployed graduates studied Philosophy :frown:. I also wish I had also embarked on university less naively. I don't regret studying History as I love the subject but I should have gone into it with a stronger dose of reality - then I would have utilised more opportunities whilst I was already there to strengthen my footing in the job market. I blame myself of course for my youthful idealism; however I wish it had been drummed into me at school that I can't limit myself to academic pursuits and I could have expanded my practical skills from a younger age (I know exactly what I'll teach my kids now!).

Original post by somethingbeautiful
My advice would be to look into educational avenues that are government funded which also have HIGH EMPLOYMENT rates e.g. teaching or health related courses.

I hope it all works out for you regardless of whatever you pursue - you're in almost the exact same position as myself and I know how it feels.


Thank you. :smile: I really appreciate talking to someone who knows how I feel. Degrees don't have the standing I thought before graduating. I've never been a show off but I also recognise that some people can be against you in certain work environments if you are educated so it can possibly work against me for some jobs.

I need to explore more where the high unemployment government-funded jobs are. I don't think I want to do teaching for now - I've explored it and talked to teachers and I just don't think it suits my particular skills and personality. I'm open to this changing but at the moment, I don't think it's for me.

I think this is part of growing up and becoming an adult - getting a dose of reality about how achievable your dreams really are. And my focus has changed more to developing my passions and interests outside of work as a consequence of that. Sorry I typed a lot! I had a lot to say haha. Cheers for your useful and on point post.
Reply 17
Original post by young_guns
Have you tried getting work in non-archival areas? At least, while you wait until you successfully get a job in your field


I'm really starting to feel that I want to do that. Trouble is that I'm limited by the course requirements which require 2 days of work in an archive (it means I can't pursue a full time job in something non-archives or records management related as I couldn't sustain my place on the course). The course hasn't started yet but I don't want to lose my place as I had to work hard to get onto it and don't want to lose the opportunity.
Reply 18
Original post by Lucia.
I'm really starting to feel that I want to do that. Trouble is that I'm limited by the course requirements which require 2 days of work in an archive (it means I can't pursue a full time job in something non-archives or records management related as I couldn't sustain my place on the course). The course hasn't started yet but I don't want to lose my place as I had to work hard to get onto it and don't want to lose the opportunity.


Archives jobs in the public sector are mostly given to graduates from Liverpool. UCL masters seems to be targeted by companies. However, records management is a growing field and they recruit history graduates if they have a good knowledge of digitisation and some computing abilities. You can contact them there: http://www.rms-gb.org.uk/

Perhaps you can also offer your service to TSR, I heard they were thinking about improving the badges system into a heraldic system.
http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=3004539&page=6&p=53385883#post53385883
Original post by She-Ra
I think when we re-design the profile pages there should be some kind of "I'm not here" status....

Or mega awesome badge like you have suggested :smile:

:wink:
Reply 19
Original post by Lucia.
I'm really starting to feel that I want to do that. Trouble is that I'm limited by the course requirements which require 2 days of work in an archive (it means I can't pursue a full time job in something non-archives or records management related as I couldn't sustain my place on the course). The course hasn't started yet but I don't want to lose my place as I had to work hard to get onto it and don't want to lose the opportunity.


As both a current history student and a potential current employer, I get the feeling you're still trying to 'find yourself' and wouldn't be able to dedicate 100% to any job you were given.

You seem to be fishing around looking for your niche, and haven't quite found it yet. Good luck.

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