Most of the main Green policies are terrifying
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Original post by Aph
The sun is going to die
We will be long dead already. If not, the sun will kill us.
Original post by Astronomical
We will be long dead already. If not, the sun will kill us.
Just because we will be dead by then doesn't mean we shouldn't care.
Original post by Aph
Just because we will be dead by then doesn't mean we shouldn't care.
Well, yes, it does. Typical lefty nonsense with no rational basis.
Original post by Astronomical
Well, yes, it does. Typical lefty nonsense with no rational basis.
also I remember helping you correct your sig
Greens policies are terrifying. I watch Natalie Bennett's interview on Sunday politics and she is the most economically illiterate person I've ever met, even more so than ed milliband. Truth is all the parties are screwed up major or minor. I mean, a wealth tax to pay for £73 a week for everyone in Britain. Erm, I believe that is communism I'd it not? Taking money from the hard working and giving it out to everyone hard working or not. Hey, I've got a good idea! How about we remove social mobility and the chance for people to improve their situation through hard work and just make everyone equally poor with no hope for self improvement. Yay! Sound like a great plan, not.
Btw the mansion tax is no better. When labour first proposed it they said £2,000,000 and well increase the boundary in line with inflation. That was about 3 or so years ago so why is the figure still £2,000,000? Because when labour win, which they will, just, thanks to the snp, they will introduce this and within a few years we'll find mansions are no longer £2,000,000 but £1.5m then £1m then £500,000 and so on.
Then what happens? Well either house prices fall, wrecking the housing market and thus the economy or everyone will 3-bed semi-detached 'mansions' in South East sell to foreign investors like the Qatari investment fund (which already owns Canary, wharf, the shard etc) and we rent our 3-bed mansions bs k from these people who, as foreign investors, will laugh in labours face and not even pay the tax.
A tax on assets would be the start of a longterm British economic spiral.
Now I haven't even started in green view that the 1% are stealing from the rest. Now, maybe that is true globally. In fact we as a western country, most of us even if on minimum wage are in global top 6-8% anyway (and if you earn at least uk average salary you'll be in global top 3-4%) actively encourage cheap labour in developing countries so we can get our cheap foreign goods from abroad. But within Britain the rich do not steal from the poor. If anything it is the other way around (not that I'm against redistribution of wealth in prinviple). People in uk earning over £150,000 have 45% of this plus national insurance taken away and given to those in benefits or state pensions or tax credits. In what was is this the rich stealing from the poor? Indeed when politicians talk about the rich they have us believe it's multi millionaires and billionaires they're hitting. Well it's not. It's people just like you who have worked hard their whole life to work their way from the bottom to get a decent standard of living for their families. raising taxes never forces the uber wealthy to pay more. They just leave and don't come back. It's the hard working, working class people who have achieved social mobility who foots the bill. Raising taxes for the rich doesn't dven raise that much anyway because you don't have s bulk population. The only way to get the rich to pay more, is, paradoxically, to reduce taxes for the uber wealthy and create a little tax haven like in Switzerland or Luxembourg or Ireland or the idle of Mann.
Truth is all the parties are useless
Greens, labour and economically illiterate and lie through their teeth frequently contradicting themselves.
Lib dems are sell outs,
The conservatives are cowards whose own leader won't even get involved in a televised debate.
UKIP, well, you know, their anti-Europe and that's all they really have to say for themselves. Most of their members don't even know what their other policies are. (which is a shame because there are a couple which are worth listening to but finding them is like looking for a needle in a haystack)
And lastly the snp just annoy me. Their combined economic illiteracy and their general pointless and unfounded hatred and contempt for anyone in the Union outside of Scotland, particularly the English, just seems petty, childish and backwards.
So from this pointless mix who do we choose? Personally I think we need a party that doesn't assign its self to the political spectrum and instead associates itself with realism and the true nature of globalisation and britains place in a very competitive world,
We should focus on building infrastructure like homes, railways in North and South, hospitals, schools, expanding our only airport Hub that brings so many economic benefits and yet everyone seems to hate and wants Dubai to take its place (I sm of course talking about Heathrow).
More money should be invested in scientific research, especially nuclear fusion which really could solve all the worlds problems. Climate change, lack of fossil fuels, energy poverty, hunger and starvation.
With fusion we could use energy like never before. Cheap electricity powering intensive artificial lights in factory farms growing crops on a truly industrial level. Floors and floors of highly automated crops utilising ideal light levels, fertilisers and genetic modification to allow fast growing crops to feed the world. This freeing up countryside for replanting the forests we destroyed over the last few centuries. We could also use this energy to power our cars our high speed maglev trains, everything. Wouldn't it be great if Britain was at forefront of this revolution in energy? The economic and social benefits would set us apart from any other nation. Idealistic I know. And unrelated I know.
But in my opinion the world can be fixed by solid fusion, a project current neglected of any significant funding. And hey, maybe all that green energy will put an end to the Green Party and their ridiculous policies...
Btw the mansion tax is no better. When labour first proposed it they said £2,000,000 and well increase the boundary in line with inflation. That was about 3 or so years ago so why is the figure still £2,000,000? Because when labour win, which they will, just, thanks to the snp, they will introduce this and within a few years we'll find mansions are no longer £2,000,000 but £1.5m then £1m then £500,000 and so on.
Then what happens? Well either house prices fall, wrecking the housing market and thus the economy or everyone will 3-bed semi-detached 'mansions' in South East sell to foreign investors like the Qatari investment fund (which already owns Canary, wharf, the shard etc) and we rent our 3-bed mansions bs k from these people who, as foreign investors, will laugh in labours face and not even pay the tax.
A tax on assets would be the start of a longterm British economic spiral.
Now I haven't even started in green view that the 1% are stealing from the rest. Now, maybe that is true globally. In fact we as a western country, most of us even if on minimum wage are in global top 6-8% anyway (and if you earn at least uk average salary you'll be in global top 3-4%) actively encourage cheap labour in developing countries so we can get our cheap foreign goods from abroad. But within Britain the rich do not steal from the poor. If anything it is the other way around (not that I'm against redistribution of wealth in prinviple). People in uk earning over £150,000 have 45% of this plus national insurance taken away and given to those in benefits or state pensions or tax credits. In what was is this the rich stealing from the poor? Indeed when politicians talk about the rich they have us believe it's multi millionaires and billionaires they're hitting. Well it's not. It's people just like you who have worked hard their whole life to work their way from the bottom to get a decent standard of living for their families. raising taxes never forces the uber wealthy to pay more. They just leave and don't come back. It's the hard working, working class people who have achieved social mobility who foots the bill. Raising taxes for the rich doesn't dven raise that much anyway because you don't have s bulk population. The only way to get the rich to pay more, is, paradoxically, to reduce taxes for the uber wealthy and create a little tax haven like in Switzerland or Luxembourg or Ireland or the idle of Mann.
Truth is all the parties are useless
Greens, labour and economically illiterate and lie through their teeth frequently contradicting themselves.
Lib dems are sell outs,
The conservatives are cowards whose own leader won't even get involved in a televised debate.
UKIP, well, you know, their anti-Europe and that's all they really have to say for themselves. Most of their members don't even know what their other policies are. (which is a shame because there are a couple which are worth listening to but finding them is like looking for a needle in a haystack)
And lastly the snp just annoy me. Their combined economic illiteracy and their general pointless and unfounded hatred and contempt for anyone in the Union outside of Scotland, particularly the English, just seems petty, childish and backwards.
So from this pointless mix who do we choose? Personally I think we need a party that doesn't assign its self to the political spectrum and instead associates itself with realism and the true nature of globalisation and britains place in a very competitive world,
We should focus on building infrastructure like homes, railways in North and South, hospitals, schools, expanding our only airport Hub that brings so many economic benefits and yet everyone seems to hate and wants Dubai to take its place (I sm of course talking about Heathrow).
More money should be invested in scientific research, especially nuclear fusion which really could solve all the worlds problems. Climate change, lack of fossil fuels, energy poverty, hunger and starvation.
With fusion we could use energy like never before. Cheap electricity powering intensive artificial lights in factory farms growing crops on a truly industrial level. Floors and floors of highly automated crops utilising ideal light levels, fertilisers and genetic modification to allow fast growing crops to feed the world. This freeing up countryside for replanting the forests we destroyed over the last few centuries. We could also use this energy to power our cars our high speed maglev trains, everything. Wouldn't it be great if Britain was at forefront of this revolution in energy? The economic and social benefits would set us apart from any other nation. Idealistic I know. And unrelated I know.
But in my opinion the world can be fixed by solid fusion, a project current neglected of any significant funding. And hey, maybe all that green energy will put an end to the Green Party and their ridiculous policies...
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Aph
Generally BBC stuff.
Trickle down economics doesn't work. If the rich get richer faster the poor have less power and are seen al lower people resulting in a fall in living standards compared to the rich.
just because it doesn't exist yet doesn't mean it can't. Surely you know that.
Trickle down economics doesn't work. If the rich get richer faster the poor have less power and are seen al lower people resulting in a fall in living standards compared to the rich.
just because it doesn't exist yet doesn't mean it can't. Surely you know that.
Trick down economics doesn't work, but having low taxes to attract multinationals like Amazon, Starbucks snd big banks does. These companies not only move their assets to such a country paying large amounts of money to government in tax but invest in large numbers of high paid jobs in that country as well. Truth is lower taxes for large businesses and the highest earners does raise more money because these people and organisations pay tax in your country rather than the one next door. They also build new offices and create new jobs in your country rather than the neighbouring one as well. Raising taxes causes these large companies to leave resulting in less tax raised and less investment in high paid skilled jobs. if you want proof look at what happened to France when it thought raiding its taxes to 60% would be a good idea. The rich left and now the french government are using subsidies to try and tempt foreign companies to invest in France again.
Original post by Chlorophile
It never ceases to amaze me how many people don't realise that infinite economic growth breaks the laws of physics. Zero growth is inevitable - it is literally impossible to carry on growing forever. The only sustainable society is a zero growth society. This isn't some green ideology, it's a basic fact. The article asserts that "Caroline Lucas and colleagues regard economic growth as incompatible with protecting the planet", implying it's their opinion. It isn't, it's a fact. You cannot live on a living planet with finite resources and expect growth to continue forever.
The Green Party isn't crazy for saying this, they are literally the only party that appears to be accepting the basic natural laws that we can't change. Unfortunately, it is beyond the grasp of most people that infinite growth is impossible, hence articles like these which support parties with policies that aim to defeat the laws of physics.
The Green Party isn't crazy for saying this, they are literally the only party that appears to be accepting the basic natural laws that we can't change. Unfortunately, it is beyond the grasp of most people that infinite growth is impossible, hence articles like these which support parties with policies that aim to defeat the laws of physics.
If you are arguing using physics that indefinite growth is impossible you are entirely wrong. The universe is both infinite and constantly expanding do an argument on that basis is flawed.
Economic growth is sustainable for the simple reason that it is meangingless. We can print as much money as we want and so economies can always expand. In fact computers mean that even limits on metal paper and ink cannot limit our indefinite expansion as we can always add more zeros into our electronic currency.
Anyway, the economy is irrwvelevent, it is simply a political tool to empower politicians and give them a sense of superiority to smaller nations. What matters is the median income of a nation. Actually, even that doesn't matter. What matters is wuity of life, but median gdp per capita does exert a huge influence over quality of life simply because quality of life is not only measured by health standards and education and political freedom but what we have. If we have less money then we have less stuff thus our quality of life decreases. What is unsustainable is rising quality of life assuming it relies on how much we have. Unless somehow we access the resources of another planet, eventually we won't be able to have anymore from this planet. This is however unlikely ever happen that we have nothing left to use as it assumes that we use everything, every last atom from carbon in each otgsnidm to all the iron in the ground. So, you are sort of right but most very wrong.
Original post by aeroline1999
If you are arguing using physics that indefinite growth is impossible you are entirely wrong. The universe is both infinite and constantly expanding do an argument on that basis is flawed.
Economic growth is sustainable for the simple reason that it is meangingless. We can print as much money as we want and so economies can always expand. In fact computers mean that even limits on metal paper and ink cannot limit our indefinite expansion as we can always add more zeros into our electronic currency.
Economic growth is sustainable for the simple reason that it is meangingless. We can print as much money as we want and so economies can always expand. In fact computers mean that even limits on metal paper and ink cannot limit our indefinite expansion as we can always add more zeros into our electronic currency.
1) the universe isn't infinite, we know because of the Hubble constant amongst other things.
2) there is a finite amount of energy in the universe.
and making money out of nowhere is really bad, case and point post post WWI Germany.
As if we needed more reason not to vote for them, among other things they think that sentience is the only requirement to be human
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/green-party/11456572/Rodents-to-be-given-human-rights-under-Green-Party-plans.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/green-party/11456572/Rodents-to-be-given-human-rights-under-Green-Party-plans.html
Original post by Aph
1) the universe isn't infinite, we know because of the Hubble constant amongst other things.
2) there is a finite amount of energy in the universe.
and making money out of nowhere is really bad, case and point post post WWI Germany.
2) there is a finite amount of energy in the universe.
and making money out of nowhere is really bad, case and point post post WWI Germany.
We can never reach that limit though, do you really think we can colonise millions and billions of solar systems? Even then we'd not run out. The universe is big enough for it to be considered infinite in terms of resources.
Your argument is silly even if we did maintain no growth the universe would probably die a heat death. We may aswell expand.
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Original post by Aph
well do you not care about your children...
also I remember helping you correct your sig
also I remember helping you correct your sig
Nobody will be alive when the sun dies. Humanity will have moved on from the earth or die.
So if we can exploit the sun's energy it would be, essentially infinite energy to continue growth.
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Original post by Jammy Duel
As if we needed more reason not to vote for them, among other things they think that sentience is the only requirement to be human
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/green-party/11456572/Rodents-to-be-given-human-rights-under-Green-Party-plans.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/green-party/11456572/Rodents-to-be-given-human-rights-under-Green-Party-plans.html
Actually a good idea, if aliens came to earth and kidnapped you, you wouldn't like it.
Original post by reallydontknow
We can never reach that limit though, do you really think we can colonise millions and billions of solar systems? Even then we'd not run out. The universe is big enough for it to be considered infinite in terms of resources.
Your argument is silly even if we did maintain no growth the universe would probably die a heat death. We may aswell expand.
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Your argument is silly even if we did maintain no growth the universe would probably die a heat death. We may aswell expand.
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But it wouldn't be, we would also run into other life eventually and collectively run out of resources.
and a heat death?
Original post by Aph
Actually a good idea, if aliens came to earth and kidnapped you, you wouldn't like it.
But it wouldn't be, we would also run into other life eventually and collectively run out of resources.
and a heat death?
But it wouldn't be, we would also run into other life eventually and collectively run out of resources.
and a heat death?
Yea it would be. The universe has billions of galaxies. We couldn't even fully colonise one.
Energy being spread out so far apart there will be more more interactions ever.
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Original post by Aph
Actually a good idea, if aliens came to earth and kidnapped you, you wouldn't like it.
I wouldn't particularly like it if another person did it, but there is a certain very important word in "human rights" and that is "human"
Original post by reallydontknow
Yea it would be. The universe has billions of galaxies. We couldn't even fully colonise one.
Energy being spread out so far apart there will be more more interactions ever.
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Energy being spread out so far apart there will be more more interactions ever.
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So you are psychic?
dont you mean less? As energy Spreads it disapates and becomes 0
Original post by Jammy Duel
I wouldn't particularly like it if another person did it, but there is a certain very important word in "human rights" and that is "human"
But these animals are sentient, they are self aware and apart from technology they are basicly the same as humans. In that they feel the same emotions, are fully aware of their surroundings, there is no real diffence.
Original post by Aph
So you are psychic?
dont you mean less? As energy Spreads it disapates and becomes 0
dont you mean less? As energy Spreads it disapates and becomes 0
No I am being realistic. How many years would it take to colonise a galaxy? I would say at least 100,000-1,000,000 if not many, many more. by then we would be able to employ sun's for our energy and be able to turn mass into energy.
And to colonise the universe. Well, since it's expanding St roughly the speed of light, almost impossible but if possible it would take probably tens of millions to billions of years and by then we could probably travel to other dimensions or have died out.
I meant no more interactions. Yes I know how energy works thank you.
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(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by reallydontknow
No I am being realistic. How many years would it take to colonise a galaxy? I would say at least 100,000-1,000,000 if not many, many more. by then we would be able to employ sun's for our energy and be able to turn mass into energy.
And to colonise the universe. Well, since it's expanding St roughly the speed of light, almost impossible but if possible it would take probably tens of millions to billions of years and by then we could probably travel to other dimensions or have died out.
I meant no more interactions. Yes I know how energy works thank you.
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And to colonise the universe. Well, since it's expanding St roughly the speed of light, almost impossible but if possible it would take probably tens of millions to billions of years and by then we could probably travel to other dimensions or have died out.
I meant no more interactions. Yes I know how energy works thank you.
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Technological advancement could make it way shorter. And you know it.
And I'm pretty sure space distortions could let us get thought the universe relitively fast to... And you are just talking using what we could assume is a finite amount of parallel universes which might not even be hospital.
Original post by Aph
Technological advancement could make it way shorter. And you know it.
And I'm pretty sure space distortions could let us get thought the universe relitively fast to... And you are just talking using what we could assume is a finite amount of parallel universes which might not even be hospital.
And I'm pretty sure space distortions could let us get thought the universe relitively fast to... And you are just talking using what we could assume is a finite amount of parallel universes which might not even be hospital.
Researchers from Oxford have calculated there is a 20% chance humans will be extinct by 2100 (iirc) and that probability will only go up. We will never, ever exploit all of the universes resources and you know it. They are, for all intents and purposes infinite. And anybody who argues against this is an idiot.
And the reason animals shouldn't get human rights is that they aren't human, that's simple, we are a species and they are not part of it. They cannot contribute as we do and neither can they comprehend as we do, they are incapable to understand the many things we can, such as physics, biology and chemistry and as such are not as intelligent. Tell me, have you seen a rodent made nuclear fusion reactor anywhere? No you haven't because they probably do not understand that everything is made of atoms, let alone the fact that you can you can get energy from them
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(edited 9 years ago)
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