The Arsenal Thread XXII

Original post by Mackay

I don't rate Giroud poorly at all. I'm genuinely a big advocate of his. I really rate him. I just don't think he has what it takes to be a striker who will win matches on his own. Costa - for all his niggling and dark arts - is a match-winner. He was born for the big stage imo. I'm unsure if Giroud is. He has plenty of time to prove me wrong, though.

Starting with Monaco this week...

Oh I know, Costa should be praised for his..er...bottle? He never shies away from important games, and you can tell his dedication is never in question. He also puts goals away when he is provided the opportunity. I just think (based on his Chelsea career and not his previous one) that he relies on service a lot, whereas players like Kane and Giroud (note: I am not saying they are all equal, I still think Costa is slightly better) can be seen running back to help out with defense or midfield, and try to play a part in the build up (Kane less than Giroud). This is probably just down to style of play and the team surrounding them, so I won't try to make any claims beyond my own personal observations.

Knowing Giroud, he will probably miss a sitter and the entire board will be screaming for his head.

Original post by Lúcio

Please stop comparing Giroud to Costa.

Any reason why not, or are you just feeling a bit jealous you got stuck with Lambert?

Original post by jam277

Costa destroyed the CL last year getting 8 goals in 9 games. Don't you think that this is most probably the same case for Giroud, considering your midfield right now is as good as that midfield back in 2011 e.g? Just because Costa gets his goals inside the box doesn't mean he's not influencing a game outside of it. If anything the reason why he's been suffering the second half of the season is because he's been force to move into wide positions and make up for the lack of decent fullbacks, so rather than staying in the box and getting low balls from Filipe etc he's moving out wide to collect the ball and then integrate with the midfielders. Well then look at his record at Atlético, third best goalscorer in the league last season and scored 20 goals the season before while being a bitch man for Falcao. If that isn't enough to suggest his quality then nothing will.

Let's keep the discussion to his performances at his current club, or else Falcao is starting to look pretty deadly for Man Utd. With Giroud/Adebayor, it isn't even close. Adebayor had the first touch of a dying amputee, and he was limited in his skills/passing. Giroud is technically more advanced, and as I said, even plays his part in midfield.

I understand what you mean with Costa moving out wider, but how can you say that's due to poor fullbacks? You have some of the best fullbacks and wingers in the league, just not the best rotation squad.

Reply 4542

SA-1

Original post by Kruz

That season I thought Ade was WC, Fabregas made him unbeatable at times it was crazy.

He was IMO, was one of the best at what he did for us. He would control every long ball on his chest and bring it down and bring our midfielders in to the game. Was pretty sharp in front of goal too.

Didn't he bag 30 goals that season (in all comps)?

Shame his ma did juju on him :rolleyes:

Reply 4543

SA-1

Original post by Lyrical Prodigy

Team news coming out of our match tomorrow from Monaco:

Rosicky did not travel (illness) AOC (Injured) Chuba Akpom (Not in squad) Gabriel (fully fit and in contention to start)

Is that all? We have such a solid team that can get the job done.

Really hoping for an Arsenal comeback here, I don't even know why tbh.

Lets just hope the players play to win without underestimating Monaco.

Reply 4544

ETRC

Original post by Lyrical Prodigy

Team news coming out of our match tomorrow from Monaco:

Rosicky did not travel (illness) AOC (Injured) Chuba Akpom (Not in squad) Gabriel (fully fit and in contention to start)

Yes Gabriel can start. This means, if he starts, we won't get overrun on counter attacks cos of slow mert.

Reply 4545

Lúcio

Original post by ArsenalWenger

I was really excited when Welbeck signed. It was all set up for him with Giroud out injured and some quality creative players around him. But that goal vs United was worth 16 Mil on its own anyway :biggrin:

. Anyways heres hoping to a Liverpool slip up tonight :wink:

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i was excited for him - glad that he away from united but still stayed at a top club.

obviously the FA Cup goal was massive, but overall he really hasn't done anything close to what i thought he would, given the big opportunity he had with Giroud injured.

would you prefer liverpool or united to take 4th place?

Original post by Arkasia

Any reason why not, or are you just feeling a bit jealous you got stuck with Lambert?

please read my last post, cba saying it again :tongue:

with regards to lambert, i don't understand the wumming.
he cost us 4m...wow.
he's a reserve striker that we will barely use and he's a decent plan B if we need it.

and before you desperately mention balotelli, he had a rough start but has been very influential in games for us over the last month or so :smile:

Reply 4546

SA-1

Have posted this before, but I reckon tomorrow we should line up with creativity everywhere because Monaco will be so compact as a defensive unit. If we get a quick goal and then one near half time (either side of it), they will eventually start pushing. That's where we can unleash Theo or Welbz.

Tomorrow we should start like this:

Giroud
Alexis Santi Ozil
Ramsey Coq
Monreal Kosc Gabriel Bellerin
Ospina

Chambers was absolutely shocking positionally against the hammers and could really cost us a counterattacking goal if we press high, which is why I would rather play Gabriel tomorrow too.

We can certainly come back, we just need the perfect performance from the players, and from AW (tactically).

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 4547

doobucks

Original post by Arkasia

Let's keep the discussion to his performances at his current club, or else Falcao is starting to look pretty deadly for Man Utd. With Giroud/Adebayor, it isn't even close. Adebayor had the first touch of a dying amputee, and he was limited in his skills/passing. Giroud is technically more advanced, and as I said, even plays his part in midfield.

I'm just saying that with a top midfield you are going to look better than you are already. Do you think that Giroud's improvement in form this season to the second half of last season is down to him showing how good a player he really is, or is it down to the general improvement in your midfield(i.e. Ozil back in form, Sanchez, Ramsey back, a proper DM and more pace etc?) I'm more than inclined to think that it is the latter, considering Giroud's record first half of last season when you guys actually had a relatively balanced midfield performing at the top of their game.

I understand what you mean with Costa moving out wider, but how can you say that's due to poor fullbacks? You have some of the best fullbacks and wingers in the league, just not the best rotation squad.

We're boring to watch but watch us play and you'll understand why.

1. We play an RB at LB and rarely give him instructions to go forward, when he does he's on his non favoured foot or cutting in making our play very narrow.

2. Our best LB attacking wise is forever sitting on our bench so that we can play Ivanovic and use a good defensive LB.

3. Our RB is essentially a CB that is used as a set piece threat and an outlet on goal kicks. He's a very average technical footballer, and his goals which are made either from a set piece or via running into the box and getting a ball from a cross.

4. Our wingers play very narrow when in the final third, which leads to us passing laterally and with the poor fullback setup teams just sit deep and narrow leaving us with no space to operate. Hazard usually unlocks the defence, but when he's being double marked it makes our job infinitely harder when Azpi isn't a great attacking fullback.

5. This in turn causes Costa to run into wide channels around the left side so that Hazard is free to operate some more, because he's not getting any good deliveries from the middle(Fabregas has been in **** form) and Hazard is our best creative player. When he actually got a good delivery from a fullback he stayed in the middle and he scored.

Could go more into this but that'll enter extended essay territory.

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 4548

ETRC

Original post by ArsenalWenger

Gabriel needs to start so we can pressure high up. You'd think coq and Ramsey would be the 2 in front of the defence, then that leaves Alexis Ozil Santi Theo Giroud and Welbeck as the candidates for the remaining spots. Alexis definitely starts. So should Giroud with his goal scoring and hold up play. Wenger loves Santi and Ozil but we would lack real pace going forward barring alexis. Ozil might be a passenger so dat guy with his pace and work rate is a good candidate to start. Theo despite 3 goals since returning has fluffed to many chances and doesn't offer much defensively.

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The line up should be
Coq
Ramsey
Ozil, Cazorla, Alexis
Giroud

Walcott should come on at half time if we haven't scored yet. Welbz work rate won't be needed cos Monaco will sit back. We need as much creativity since they are sitting back and if Cazorla and Ozil have a great match we have a decent chance. We don't have much pace with this line up but if we play like we did against West Ham, the slick fast passing will be good enough.

Reply 4549

Lúcio

please read my last post, cba saying it again

with regards to lambert, i don't understand the wumming.
he cost us 4m...wow.
he's a reserve striker that we will barely use and he's a decent plan B if we need it.

and before you desperately mention balotelli, he had a rough start but has been very influential in games for us over the last month or so

I know man I'm just messing with you. Lambert's price doesn't matter, look at players like Ayoze Perez. And with Balotelli, there is no way he has justified his price tag (especially considering the **** us Gooners got after we signed Welbeck for the same amount).

Reply 4550

ETRC

Original post by jam277

5. This in turn causes Costa to run into wide channels around the left side so that Hazard is free to operate some more, because he's not getting any good deliveries from the middle(Fabregas has been in **** form) and Hazard is our best creative player. When he actually got a good delivery from a fullback he stayed in the middle and he scored.

Hazard is your only CONSISTENT creative player. Oscar does **** all, idk how he even starts cos he does nothing. Fabregas is known to have a crap second half of the season. Willian is very good at running past players but his final ball makes his dribbling not matter.
When Chelsea win its because Hazard or Fabregas play good.
You seem to have a Man City problem where if Silva and Aguero don't save their ass, they run out of ideas.

Reply 4551

Lúcio

Original post by Arkasia

I know man I'm just messing with you. Lambert's price doesn't matter, look at players like Ayoze Perez. And with Balotelli, there is no way he has justified his price tag (especially considering the **** us Gooners got after we signed Welbeck for the same amount).

lamberts price definitely matters - if we paid 10m for him fair enough laughing at us, but 4m is pocket change in the grand scheme of things.

oh i agree; even though he has dramatically improved, i'd still be fine offloading him for 10m in the summer.
he isn't consistent enough to rely on and we need to have better imo, especially if we make top 4 again.

Reply 4552

Original post by jam277

I'm just saying that with a top midfield you are going to look better than you are already. Do you think that Giroud's improvement in form this season to the second half of last season is down to him showing how good a player he really is, or is it down to the general improvement in your midfield(i.e. Ozil back in form, Sanchez, Ramsey back, a proper DM and more pace etc?) I'm more than inclined to think that it is the latter, considering Giroud's record first half of last season when you guys actually had a relatively balanced midfield performing at the top of their game.

We're boring to watch but watch us play and you'll understand why.

1. We play an RB at LB and rarely give him instructions to go forward, when he does he's on his non favoured foot or cutting in making our play very narrow.

2. Our best LB attacking wise is forever sitting on our bench so that we can play Ivanovic and use a good defensive LB.

3. Our RB is essentially a CB that is used as a set piece threat and an outlet on goal kicks. He's a very average technical footballer, and his goals which are made either from a set piece or via running into the box and getting a ball from a cross.

4. Our wingers play very narrow when in the final third, which leads to us passing laterally and with the poor fullback setup teams just sit deep and narrow leaving us with no space to operate. Hazard usually unlocks the defence, but when he's being double marked it makes our job infinitely harder when Azpi isn't a great attacking fullback.

5. This in turn causes Costa to run into wide channels around the left side so that Hazard is free to operate some more, because he's not getting any good deliveries from the middle(Fabregas has been in **** form) and Hazard is our best creative player. When he actually got a good delivery from a fullback he stayed in the middle and he scored.

Could go more into this but that'll enter extended essay territory.

Oh no, most definitely the striker's form reflects the form of his team, but I just think within that team, Giroud has played more of a role, and has been more impressive, than Adebayor was. When you look at Giroud linking up with Ramsey and Ozil, and compare it to Cesc, Walcott, or someone else carrying the ball forward only for Ade to take it and **** it straight into the stratosphere with his shot, I personally believe Giroud is better, and believe he has a 30 goal season in him (all competitions) as long as he isn't injured.

I see all of those points and have to admit I have noticed Willian/Ramires cutting inside as soon as they can, which doesn't make sense to me (Cuadrado and Hazard at least attempt to play wide and run from the byline at times), which makes little sense to me. With Fabregas, his play has been erratic, with passes going anywhere but the target, and his link-up play being along the width of the pitch as opposed to the length. Why would you say that is, beyond his usual post-Christmas dip? (Genuine question)

Reply 4553

doobucks

Original post by ETRC

Hazard is your only CONSISTENT creative player. Oscar does **** all, idk how he even starts cos he does nothing. Fabregas is known to have a crap second half of the season. Willian is very good at running past players but his final ball makes his dribbling not matter.

Oscar is one of the most important players to our system. Our no.10 has to press their deep lying playmakers and he's spending the whole game making runs into the channels and integrating with the wingers.

Agree with the rest, said that when we bought Fabregas. Cuadrado barely plays so he doesn't get a chance to actually show how good/or bad he is.

You seem to have a Man City problem where if Silva and Aguero don't save their ass, they run out of ideas.

Last season yeah that was blatant. Not so much this season as we have more than one consistent goalscoring threat. Also set pieces are a good avenue for us to score so we don't necessarily run out of ideas.

When Chelsea win its because Hazard or Fabregas play good.

We get our asses saved by a multitude of players. Oscar(first half of our seasons,) Matic, Terry, Ivanovic, Costa, Hazard, Fabregas.

It's obviously an overwhelming theme that our best attacking players will be the ones who are winning us games. That's like saying Real win because Ronaldo and Bale turn up, or Barcelona win because Messi/Neymar and Suarez turn up.

Reply 4554

Alright people, looks like it'll be an Arsenal vs Reading semi-final. Last time we played them in a cup game turned out to be one of my favourite matches of all time.

Reply 4555

ArsenalWenger

8

Original post by Lúcio

i was excited for him - glad that he away from united but still stayed at a top club.

obviously the FA Cup goal was massive, but overall he really hasn't done anything close to what i thought he would, given the big opportunity he had with Giroud injured.

would you prefer liverpool or united to take 4th place?

please read my last post, cba saying it again :tongue:

with regards to lambert, i don't understand the wumming.
he cost us 4m...wow.
he's a reserve striker that we will barely use and he's a decent plan B if we need it.

and before you desperately mention balotelli, he had a rough start but has been very influential in games for us over the last month or so :smile:

Defo Liverpool. The amount of grief I've got from my United mates and other United fans through High school and college been to much lol . Really wanted you to win the league towards end last season when we were out of it. Breathtaking football that was.

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Reply 4556

angelfox