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The Arsenal Thread XXII
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^ Can you wait for your turn please? 
Original post by SA-1
Can't rate because I've rated you before, but this video absolutely nails it. Really well put by him, wrt the nativity of the team and how there's no reason to be proud of yesterdays performance.
Summed up what I was saying initially before Tom_Ford decided to think I was talking about Wenger.
Valiant defeats mean nothing in the grand scheme of things.
To be honest, when the finances improve for a team there is hardly ever instant success. We've seen it with Chelsea and City, it took them time to build a team with winners, and even now City can't nail the CL. We've seen with Liverpool and Tottenham that a team can't be rebuilt in a season.
Honestly think Wenger should be given until his current contract expires to truly judge him because if the stadium was paid of a year or two ago then it will obviously take him time from going from the 2012/13 team to a CL challenging team.
When Wenger replied to Mourinho in saying that, 'some managers are too scared to fail' it makes sense. Would be so much easier to leave in 2005 and to win silverware elsewhere but Wenger takes the risk, probably knowing that the future years aren't going to be as successful to rebuild a team and a stadium. He knew how much stick he would get, and probably saw that players would snake it too.
What he would have done by 2017 is have paid off a stadium and would have built a team that's more than capable for challenging on all fronts. Would have laid out the perfect infrastructure at the emirates and will set us up to not ever be completely ****ed. I.e, when he leaves, Arsenal won't fall like United did (even if it was just for a season).
Wenger will probably leave it in 2017, and he deserves every bit of respect for every second that he stays. He's signed a contract and won't be sacked so these Wenger-in vs Wenger out convo's are a waste of time.
Honestly think Wenger should be given until his current contract expires to truly judge him because if the stadium was paid of a year or two ago then it will obviously take him time from going from the 2012/13 team to a CL challenging team.
When Wenger replied to Mourinho in saying that, 'some managers are too scared to fail' it makes sense. Would be so much easier to leave in 2005 and to win silverware elsewhere but Wenger takes the risk, probably knowing that the future years aren't going to be as successful to rebuild a team and a stadium. He knew how much stick he would get, and probably saw that players would snake it too.
What he would have done by 2017 is have paid off a stadium and would have built a team that's more than capable for challenging on all fronts. Would have laid out the perfect infrastructure at the emirates and will set us up to not ever be completely ****ed. I.e, when he leaves, Arsenal won't fall like United did (even if it was just for a season).
Wenger will probably leave it in 2017, and he deserves every bit of respect for every second that he stays. He's signed a contract and won't be sacked so these Wenger-in vs Wenger out convo's are a waste of time.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Peggles_*
Mo is completely right, you can't look at a second leg on it's own where one team knows they can let in 2 goals and win.
Best guy on AFTV by some way
Original post by SA-1
To be honest, when the finances improve for a team there is hardly ever instant success. We've seen it with Chelsea and City, it took them time to build a team with winners, and even now City can't nail the CL. We've seen with Liverpool and Tottenham that a team can't be rebuilt in a season.
Honestly think Wenger should be given until his current contract expires to truly judge him because if the stadium was paid of a year or two ago then it will obviously take him time from going from the 2012/13 team to a CL challenging team.
When Wenger replied to Mourinho in saying that, 'some managers are too scared to fail' it makes sense. Would be so much easier to leave in 2005 and to win silverware elsewhere but Wenger takes the risk, probably knowing that the future years aren't going to be as successful to rebuild a team and a stadium. He knew how much stick he would get, and probably saw that players would snake it too.
What he would have done by 2017 is have paid off a stadium and would have built a team that's more than capable for challenging on all fronts. Would have laid out the perfect infrastructure at the emirates and will set us up to not ever be completely ****ed. I.e, when he leaves, Arsenal won't fall like United did (even if it was just for a season).
Wenger will probably leave it in 2017, and he deserves every bit of respect for every second that he stays. He's signed a contract and won't be sacked so these Wenger-in vs Wenger out convo's are a waste of time.
Honestly think Wenger should be given until his current contract expires to truly judge him because if the stadium was paid of a year or two ago then it will obviously take him time from going from the 2012/13 team to a CL challenging team.
When Wenger replied to Mourinho in saying that, 'some managers are too scared to fail' it makes sense. Would be so much easier to leave in 2005 and to win silverware elsewhere but Wenger takes the risk, probably knowing that the future years aren't going to be as successful to rebuild a team and a stadium. He knew how much stick he would get, and probably saw that players would snake it too.
What he would have done by 2017 is have paid off a stadium and would have built a team that's more than capable for challenging on all fronts. Would have laid out the perfect infrastructure at the emirates and will set us up to not ever be completely ****ed. I.e, when he leaves, Arsenal won't fall like United did (even if it was just for a season).
Wenger will probably leave it in 2017, and he deserves every bit of respect for every second that he stays. He's signed a contract and won't be sacked so these Wenger-in vs Wenger out convo's are a waste of time.
People seem to be confusing ambition with success. I never said I wanted instant gratification and most don’t. All I want is to compete, not be out of the CL at the R16, not out of the title race before Christmas. That’s it.
We are stuck with him until 2017. He should have been given a rolling contract rather than 3 years after the cup win.
Or the flip side of that could be Arsenal for him is a cushy job. £8m a year to finish 4th and occasionally win a cup isn’t a bad deal. Had he been at a club were the expectations are more than that, he may not have lasted long.
I don’t doubt that the club is in a good position to seriously kick on, but I don’t think Wenger is the man to do that.
Because I want him gone doesn’t mean I don’t respect him. I respect what he has done…in the past.
(edited 9 years ago)
Man hasn't got time to read these dissertations people are writing on this thread.
That's my point. No-one wins every game.
Original post by difeo
I know, it's just funny that you got beat six times in an "unbeaten season".
That's my point. No-one wins every game.
Original post by Tom_Ford
Said it before, I wish Wenger just was a bit more selfish and went to Real and Barca when they were in for him. Then people would appreciate him and his vision. Hate to say it, but he does not deserve this bull**** every time we lose. His own fans yelling at him in train stations and swearing at him? His own fans laughing at him falling over? Guy is too loyal that is his problem.
Would support him 100% if he wanted one last big job before he sails off into the sunset. Instead, I have to reply to morons like Peggles. This is what you get for sacrificing your own happiness and success for the club you love, ungrateful fans who start resenting you.
The day Henry left, he should have done too, at the pinnacle. He should have took easy job after easy job like everyones' saviour, Mourinho.
You don't get **** all for loyalty these days, it is a two way street. Guys like Nasri, Van Persie know that all too well. In this context, I do not even resent Sagna, Van Persie, Nasri for leaving... I think Wenger knows the game, what the fans are like, he understands and still loves these guys.
Would support him 100% if he wanted one last big job before he sails off into the sunset. Instead, I have to reply to morons like Peggles. This is what you get for sacrificing your own happiness and success for the club you love, ungrateful fans who start resenting you.
The day Henry left, he should have done too, at the pinnacle. He should have took easy job after easy job like everyones' saviour, Mourinho.
You don't get **** all for loyalty these days, it is a two way street. Guys like Nasri, Van Persie know that all too well. In this context, I do not even resent Sagna, Van Persie, Nasri for leaving... I think Wenger knows the game, what the fans are like, he understands and still loves these guys.
He wouldn't last a year at Real, those nobhead fans boo everyone.
Sanchez has started 39 times this season. The guy needs a rest.
You even have meltdowns when you play well. lul if you had to support a ****e club
Original post by 53SecondsToGo
You even have meltdowns when you play well. lul if you had to support a ****e club
Played well, but still went out. Glorious failure for another year.
Lads and ladettes, if you love or know enough about football, you can't be positive about our beloved Arsenal.
The spine of a team, is its GK, CB's, (DM, AM), CF.
Ospina/Scz; Mert; Coquelin; Giroud just aren't good enough . Don't settle for mediocre players, if you want us to be a big club. Demand more pace and clinical finishing than Welbz & Giroud (French ****), more athleticism than Mert, and passing ability than Coquelin.
Sanchez and Walcott are really struggling in our system right now, how annoying was it to see Walcott, try to be a f****ing J. Defoe second striker, when we needed a winger who can get to the byline and put crosses in. FFS, there was no game management, in the last 15 mins after Welsh Jesus, AR, scored, we couldn't break down their low block.
We need major surgery in our squad imho, and a manager with modern and sophisticated tactics. One that can coach a team to press properly, attack without being completely exposed, like in the first leg against Monaco. Rant over,
(((
The spine of a team, is its GK, CB's, (DM, AM), CF.
Ospina/Scz; Mert; Coquelin; Giroud just aren't good enough . Don't settle for mediocre players, if you want us to be a big club. Demand more pace and clinical finishing than Welbz & Giroud (French ****), more athleticism than Mert, and passing ability than Coquelin.
Sanchez and Walcott are really struggling in our system right now, how annoying was it to see Walcott, try to be a f****ing J. Defoe second striker, when we needed a winger who can get to the byline and put crosses in. FFS, there was no game management, in the last 15 mins after Welsh Jesus, AR, scored, we couldn't break down their low block.
We need major surgery in our squad imho, and a manager with modern and sophisticated tactics. One that can coach a team to press properly, attack without being completely exposed, like in the first leg against Monaco. Rant over,
(((
looking forawrd to this weekend.
I dont see us having a problem at newcastle.. their form is not great, only 2 wins in the last 10 games.. and we, although dissapointed with the outcome, are on a good run now, having both won and played well in the last 3 games (united, west ham, monaco) - comfortable 2-0 win for us, or 3-1 if they score..
I cant see city dropping poitns at home to west brom. - they will drop more points, but it wont be this weekend, and I still dont think we will catch them for 2nd.
Chelsea will be fine.
United and Liverpool.. there is no bad result there, but ofcourse a draw is what I will cheer for. Its not a game that either team can afford to loose, so hopefully it will end in a cagey draw.
I dont see us having a problem at newcastle.. their form is not great, only 2 wins in the last 10 games.. and we, although dissapointed with the outcome, are on a good run now, having both won and played well in the last 3 games (united, west ham, monaco) - comfortable 2-0 win for us, or 3-1 if they score..
I cant see city dropping poitns at home to west brom. - they will drop more points, but it wont be this weekend, and I still dont think we will catch them for 2nd.
Chelsea will be fine.
United and Liverpool.. there is no bad result there, but ofcourse a draw is what I will cheer for. Its not a game that either team can afford to loose, so hopefully it will end in a cagey draw.
Arsenal's monumental failure in the Champions League over the last 6 seasons
| 25 February 2015 Round of 16 | ||||
| Arsenal |  | 1-3 |  | Monaco |
| 19 February 2014 Round of 16 | ||||
| Arsenal | | 0-2 |  | Bayern |
| 19 February 2013 Round of 16 | ||||
| Arsenal | | 1-3 | | Bayern |
| 15 February 2012 Round of 16 | ||||
| Milan |  | 4-0 | | Arsenal |
| 8 March 2011 Round of 16 | ||||
| Barcelona |  | 3-1 | | Arsenal |
| 6 April 2010 Quarter Finals | ||||
| Barcelona | | 4-1 | | Arsenal |
Original post by fallen_acorns
looking forawrd to this weekend.
I dont see us having a problem at newcastle.. their form is not great, only 2 wins in the last 10 games.. and we, although dissapointed with the outcome, are on a good run now, having both won and played well in the last 3 games (united, west ham, monaco) - comfortable 2-0 win for us, or 3-1 if they score..
I cant see city dropping poitns at home to west brom. - they will drop more points, but it wont be this weekend, and I still dont think we will catch them for 2nd.
Chelsea will be fine.
United and Liverpool.. there is no bad result there, but ofcourse a draw is what I will cheer for. Its not a game that either team can afford to loose, so hopefully it will end in a cagey draw.
I dont see us having a problem at newcastle.. their form is not great, only 2 wins in the last 10 games.. and we, although dissapointed with the outcome, are on a good run now, having both won and played well in the last 3 games (united, west ham, monaco) - comfortable 2-0 win for us, or 3-1 if they score..
I cant see city dropping poitns at home to west brom. - they will drop more points, but it wont be this weekend, and I still dont think we will catch them for 2nd.
Chelsea will be fine.
United and Liverpool.. there is no bad result there, but ofcourse a draw is what I will cheer for. Its not a game that either team can afford to loose, so hopefully it will end in a cagey draw.
I think we might be a bit leggy though, the boys put in a shift last night.
Na the Arsenal guys were hammering with possession so they aren't going to be that tired.
[video="youtube;NssyS3hJXks"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NssyS3hJXks[/video]
What did I just watch ffs dear oh dear.
We'll be alright in the weekend imo. Theo will probably start, and so will Ramsey.
Reckon Alexis really needs a rest - he's burning out and his form is suffering.
I would go with this:
We really need to see Gabriel in action now so he can merge in to the first team.
Basically give Ramsey a full game and bring on Santi for Ozil on the 60min mark.
Arteta is back in training and I think so is Jack. Also, where the **** is Gnabry?
Reckon Alexis really needs a rest - he's burning out and his form is suffering.
I would go with this:
Giroud
Welbz Ozil Theo
Ramsey Coq
Gibbs Kosc Gabriel Bellerin
Ospina
Welbz Ozil Theo
Ramsey Coq
Gibbs Kosc Gabriel Bellerin
Ospina
We really need to see Gabriel in action now so he can merge in to the first team.
Basically give Ramsey a full game and bring on Santi for Ozil on the 60min mark.
Arteta is back in training and I think so is Jack. Also, where the **** is Gnabry?
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Peggles_*
xx
“Look at the club, we are in the perfect position to be challenging for serious honours, but if anything, we will be further away from the title than last year”
“We are not punching above our weight, 4th highest wage bill, usual expectations; 4th. We are essentially on par, only if we manage to finish second this season would we be punching above our weight.”
The club has only had a decent transfer budget for two seasons. Even then it is no match for the type of multiple big big money buys Chelsea, City, United can come up with.
A case study:
City got purchased by the Abu Dhabi United Group in August of 2008. Even in the previous season they had spent £30m under Thaskin. Anyway, Abu Dhabi took over and they spent £122.5m in the first season. Some highlights: Jo for £18m , Robinho for £32.5m. They finished 10th that season.
The next season, 2009-2010, they finished 5th. They spent £125m that season.
2010-2011 They finished 3rd and won a trophy! The FA Cup! They spent £143m that season to win the FA Cup and finish 3rd.
2011-2012 They finally win the league. Slap a cool £94m on the transfer bill there that season.
Can you see the type of teams we are up against? Now can you see why I understand the context of what we are doing? We are nowhere near being in a perfect position. That is a false sense of security you have, we do not have the purchasing power of a nation state behind us to just keep spending and buying the best infrastructure and players. Financial Fair Play? Don’t make me laugh.
Arsene is being given £50m this summer to spend by the board. Are you seriously telling me that we are in a perfect position? What about the inevitable eventuality that the others strengthen? What on Earth are we going to do with £50m? You tell me, smartass. City spent half a billion to win one FA Cup and a league title in 4 seasons. If anyone should be sacked, it should be the board.
Up to 2010-2011, City spent £420m just on players to become a competitive team (finishing 3rd in that season) and winning their FA Cup. Why did the press and fans not berate them for that like they like to berate Wenger? But yes, it is all Wenger’s fault, of course it is.
So yes, you are spoilt, but more delusional than spoilt to be honest. Less said about Chelsea’s transfer history the better.
“ You are beginning to sound like Gazidis with all this “increasing revenue every single year” I didn’t ever suggest he needed to go out there and spend £150m a season like you seem to think I had.”
If you are not buying the best players and you are forced to work within a relatively tight financial budget then you are working with a handicap. Being given £50m to spend is a complete ****ing joke in the current day climate. It’s all very well saying we don’t need to spend £150m a season. But other teams have been doing so for years now and are going to keep buying the best players. So how is this all Wenger’s fault that he is effectively working with a handicap. Why does the axe have to fall on his head? Ah, I know why, because his is the only head that is really out in the public view, the media view, the chopping board. He is being hung out to dry by cowards on the board.
If we have now moved on from that transitional period, he should be judged differently and have different expectations. Wenger of 2015 is not the Wenger of yesteryear, he still has the same limitations he once did and now that the face of football has changed we may need a change.
We have paid our debts mostly yes, as of last season. But does that mean we have anywhere near the purchasing power season by season of the other clubs? What kind of manager is out there that can work with such budgetary constraints and still beat nation state/oil company teams? I know you said we should keep Wenger for now because there is no one out there who could do that available at the moment. But seriously, who can come in and seriously challenge on all fronts (more specifically, win, because that is what you really want, don’t b.s. me about challenging because you are the type of idiot that complains about being nearly there) in the timeframe of 2-3 seasons?
Do you think Utd, Chelsea and City are just going to sit there and not strengthen themselves? But yes, we are in such a perfect position aren’t we?
Oh, and for it to be fair, the new manager would have to be spending over £100m a season because otherwise the manager is being judged on an unfair playing field. Other teams will be spunking away a lot of money as they are underperforming too.
"He made a complete error by not signing a world class striker in 2013, and botched another last year by not signing a DM, that’s an error in the transfer market.
I just simply said he should be capable of having a team to compete for major honours (CL & League) and once again, we still don’t. How long are you prepared to wait for him to fully address the issues in the squad?"
Let’s look at the serious contenders for the C.L. like you want us to be.
Barca: They are able to attract players like Suarez and Neymar, and buy them. 57m Euros for Neymar and 81m Euros for Suarez.
Real Madrid: Not even going to go into that.
Bayern: Monopoly on German transfer market. Big international pull for world class players.
People, imo, are delusional about the size of Arsenal. We are a big club yes, but not really up there amongst the elite at all in size, history and resources.
In the context of competition like this, do you really think a DM and a striker last season would have solved our problems, keeping in mind that we need top players in other positions too? GK for one, CB, experienced RB, creative DM (not just a DM).
World class striker… who? Cavani? Would he have propelled us to become challengers in the context of other positions we need to strengthen in? Is he even good enough? Falcao? Look at him this season. Lewa? Bayern bound. I just want to know who would have been world class for us this season in the striker position
DM… again, who? Pogba? Was he going to come? Vidal? Same. If there were open to moves, a host of other clubs would be on their heels. IF. These top class DM’s, top class players are in short supply and high demand. Especially when they become open to transfer, i.e. rarely. Clubs fight very hard to keep them. Unless they are out of favour (or dispensable) or the club is smaller and there is not another club bigger in for them… then we do not stand that great a chance of buying them.
“We are not entitled, but we should be. It’s Monaco, if it was a Madrid or a Bayern then I would understand, but it’s Monaco.”
Do you know all about French football then? Or even about the players they have?
"Stop comparing us to Leeds, Notts Forest, Villa and Everton this isn’t the 70’s and 80’s, two of them are in the Championship and the other two are in the bottom half of the table. All I want is to compete."
This is utterly insulting to those clubs and arrogant. All were dominant champions, Forest and Villa European Champions. Yet they fell to **** because they had no stability. We should feel lucky to be where we are. Learn from their mistakes and be grateful about where we are.
You keep saying all you want is to compete. Well, here is a life lesson dear, you can’t always get what you want. There is reality at play, there is a landscape at play.
"Because you want to finish 4th every season, and not get past the R16?"
No not at all, but I see the reality and that there is no quick fix from Wenger or anyone else. We need to be patient and develop a bulk of our team from risky youth players/rough young diamonds because that is what our comparative size means we have to do.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Peggles_*
I think we might be a bit leggy though, the boys put in a shift last night.
maybe, but we can rotate a bit.. ramsey, walcott, gabriel, chambers, gibbs, welbeck etc. all did not play the full 90 minutes, or at all.. and there is always rosiky etc. who can put in a decent shift if others need a rest.
Alexis definetly needs a rest, but he seems dead set against it. though I would expect to only see one of ozil or cazorla, so one of those will get a rest
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