The Arsenal Thread XXII

Played well, but still went out. Glorious failure for another year.

Yeah I get your frustration and everything and your need for improvement, its just like I'd take an away goals defeat to Monaco right now and not moan about it. Different worlds I guess.

And I'd take a Premier League relegation battle right now over mid table Championship.

Still, I quite like Sunderland, don't know what it is about them. I've always liked Poyet actually, the guy did well for us at Leeds. There's a dozen teams I'd rather see relegated before Sunderland actually. It's a shame you're doing dog **** though as you have a passionate fan base. Stadium of Light would be bursting every week if you had a sniff of Europe like the Saints.

EDIT: Thought I was in the Sunderland thread just now...

“Look at the club, we are in the perfect position to be challenging for serious honours, but if anything, we will be further away from the title than last year”

“We are not punching above our weight, 4th highest wage bill, usual expectations; 4th. We are essentially on par, only if we manage to finish second this season would we be punching above our weight.”

The club has only had a decent transfer budget for two seasons. Even then it is no match for the type of multiple big big money buys Chelsea, City, United can come up with.

A case study:

City got purchased by the Abu Dhabi United Group in August of 2008. Even in the previous season they had spent £30m under Thaskin. Anyway, Abu Dhabi took over and they spent £122.5m in the first season. Some highlights: Jo for £18m , Robinho for £32.5m. They finished 10^th that season.

The next season, 2009-2010, they finished 5^th. They spent £125m that season.

2010-2011 They finished 3^rd and won a trophy! The FA Cup! They spent £143m that season to win the FA Cup and finish 3^rd.

2011-2012 They finally win the league. Slap a cool £94m on the transfer bill there that season.

Can you see the type of teams we are up against? Now can you see why I understand the context of what we are doing? We are nowhere near being in a perfect position. That is a false sense of security you have, we do not have the purchasing power of a nation state behind us to just keep spending and buying the best infrastructure and players. Financial Fair Play? Don’t make me laugh.

Arsene is being given £50m this summer to spend by the board. Are you seriously telling me that we are in a perfect position? What about the inevitable eventuality that the others strengthen? What on Earth are we going to do with £50m? You tell me, smartass. City spent half a billion to win one FA Cup and a league title in 4 seasons. If anyone should be sacked, it should be the board.

Up to 2010-2011, City spent £420m just on players to become a competitive team (finishing 3^rd in that season) and winning their FA Cup. Why did the press and fans not berate them for that like they like to berate Wenger? But yes, it is all Wenger’s fault, of course it is.
So yes, you are spoilt, but more delusional than spoilt to be honest. Less said about Chelsea’s transfer history the better.

“ You are beginning to sound like Gazidis with all this “increasing revenue every single year” I didn’t ever suggest he needed to go out there and spend £150m a season like you seem to think I had.”

If you are not buying the best players and you are forced to work within a relatively tight financial budget then you are working with a handicap. Being given £50m to spend is a complete ****ing joke in the current day climate. It’s all very well saying we don’t need to spend £150m a season. But other teams have been doing so for years now and are going to keep buying the best players. So how is this all Wenger’s fault that he is effectively working with a handicap. Why does the axe have to fall on his head? Ah, I know why, because his is the only head that is really out in the public view, the media view, the chopping board. He is being hung out to dry by cowards on the board.

If we have now moved on from that transitional period, he should be judged differently and have different expectations. Wenger of 2015 is not the Wenger of yesteryear, he still has the same limitations he once did and now that the face of football has changed we may need a change.

We have paid our debts mostly yes, as of last season. But does that mean we have anywhere near the purchasing power season by season of the other clubs? What kind of manager is out there that can work with such budgetary constraints and still beat nation state/oil company teams? I know you said we should keep Wenger for now because there is no one out there who could do that available at the moment. But seriously, who can come in and seriously challenge on all fronts (more specifically, win, because that is what you really want, don’t b.s. me about challenging because you are the type of idiot that complains about being nearly there) in the timeframe of 2-3 seasons?

Do you think Utd, Chelsea and City are just going to sit there and not strengthen themselves? But yes, we are in such a perfect position aren’t we?

Oh, and for it to be fair, the new manager would have to be spending over £100m a season because otherwise the manager is being judged on an unfair playing field. Other teams will be spunking away a lot of money as they are underperforming too.

"He made a complete error by not signing a world class striker in 2013, and botched another last year by not signing a DM, that’s an error in the transfer market.
I just simply said he should be capable of having a team to compete for major honours (CL & League) and once again, we still don’t. How long are you prepared to wait for him to fully address the issues in the squad?"

Let’s look at the serious contenders for the C.L. like you want us to be.

Barca: They are able to attract players like Suarez and Neymar, and buy them. 57m Euros for Neymar and 81m Euros for Suarez.
Real Madrid: Not even going to go into that.
Bayern: Monopoly on German transfer market. Big international pull for world class players.

People, imo, are delusional about the size of Arsenal. We are a big club yes, but not really up there amongst the elite at all in size, history and resources.

In the context of competition like this, do you really think a DM and a striker last season would have solved our problems, keeping in mind that we need top players in other positions too? GK for one, CB, experienced RB, creative DM (not just a DM).

World class striker… who? Cavani? Would he have propelled us to become challengers in the context of other positions we need to strengthen in? Is he even good enough? Falcao? Look at him this season. Lewa? Bayern bound. I just want to know who would have been world class for us this season in the striker position

DM… again, who? Pogba? Was he going to come? Vidal? Same. If there were open to moves, a host of other clubs would be on their heels. IF. These top class DM’s, top class players are in short supply and high demand. Especially when they become open to transfer, i.e. rarely. Clubs fight very hard to keep them. Unless they are out of favour (or dispensable) or the club is smaller and there is not another club bigger in for them… then we do not stand that great a chance of buying them.

“We are not entitled, but we should be. It’s Monaco, if it was a Madrid or a Bayern then I would understand, but it’s Monaco.”
Do you know all about French football then? Or even about the players they have?

"Stop comparing us to Leeds, Notts Forest, Villa and Everton this isn’t the 70’s and 80’s, two of them are in the Championship and the other two are in the bottom half of the table. All I want is to compete."

This is utterly insulting to those clubs and arrogant. All were dominant champions, Forest and Villa European Champions. Yet they fell to **** because they had no stability. We should feel lucky to be where we are. Learn from their mistakes and be grateful about where we are.

You keep saying all you want is to compete. Well, here is a life lesson dear, you can’t always get what you want. There is reality at play, there is a landscape at play.



"Because you want to finish 4th every season, and not get past the R16?"

No not at all, but I see the reality and that there is no quick fix from Wenger or anyone else. We need to be patient and develop a bulk of our team from risky youth players/rough young diamonds because that is what our comparative size means we have to do.

Tom destroying Peggles. Probably. I'm only half-way through that book he just wrote up there and it's all good so far

Given that you think Wenger is still the man for the job, I can't say I'm surprised you feel that way.

All I simply said was that we should be doing better. Tom got all upset and in his feelings about Wenger as if I said he should be shot in the face as soon as the final whistle went.

Considering Arkasia was the guy that said we should put in a 50m bid for Zlatan I wouldn't take him too seriously.




Posted from TSR Mobile

I think that was the first time I've ever repped peggles.

We'll be alright in the weekend imo. Theo will probably start, and so will Ramsey.

Reckon Alexis really needs a rest - he's burning out and his form is suffering.

I would go with this:



We really need to see Gabriel in action now so he can merge in to the first team.

Basically give Ramsey a full game and bring on Santi for Ozil on the 60min mark.

Arteta is back in training and I think so is Jack. Also, where the **** is Gnabry?

Was referring more to the infrastructure in place; brand new 60k stadium, 82k on the season ticket waiting list, excellent training facilities, situated in the heart of London, and good young squad. We really are in the position to push on.

You do realise that initially all I said was that going out in the R16 to Monaco isn’t good enough right? You then got in your feelings and deemed it an attack on your Lord and saviour Arsene Wenger. It wasn’t. It was a critique on the naivety of the team and predictability of the club in the CL.

City are new money, they got it wrong in the beginning but then found a way to make it work. City systematically dismantled the teams above and around them to get in the CL. Everton first; Barry and Lescott were taken and Everton had a hard time. Then us, Kolo, Adepaymor, Clichy, Nasri and eventually they toppled us.
I do however think their ridiculous spending will catch up with them one day, but luckily for us, we don’t need to spend near enough a billion quid to compete.

Listen little boy, watch how you talk to me with all this spoilt/delusional/moron/smartass stuff. You seem to think it will all be dandy when Arsene Wenger sorts it all out, when he hasn’t been able to for some time now. We have the basis of a good team, he’s in a better position he was 3 years ago, but like I have said, now that our circumstances have changed so should what he is judged on. Others will strengthen where required and so should we. It shouldn’t be about reacting to what other have done, but what we need to do and not being left short in certain positions.

That’s because City are a small club with a big bank, so ultimately, their expectations will be different. City fans are now questioning Pellegrini and wondering if he is the man for the job. They weren’t doing that last season when he won them the league were they? Circumstances change.

What have I said which you deem delusional? I really want to know, suggesting that a club of Arsenal’s size should be doing a bit better than going out of the CL in March and being out of the league title race before X-mas seems perfectly reasonable to me.

Arsene has put himself in that position. He is the face of the club, runs the club from top to bottom, so some of the blame has to be attributed to him, not all but some.

Once again, I didn’t say go and splash £150m in the summer and hope it works out did I. What do you think are the main weaknesses we have in the team?
Wenger has taken us as far as he can, Simeone or Klopp could probably take this current crop of players we have further than Wenger. Before you say, I know Klopp has had a hard season, but what about all the hard seasons in the past for Wenger? Because he managed to get top 4 means he should be given another chance to prove himself. Top 4 should NOT be the limit of our ambition.

Tom, please don’t tell me what I want. I know what I want. I want to compete. I don’t our season to be over in March. I don’t want the occasional cup and 4th. I want to compete, don’t you ****ing tell me what I want.

You took the ‘perfect’ thing a bit too literal didn’t you? Maybe not perfect, but in a very good and healthy position to seriously kick on. So I guess you think we are just going to stand still right? Stand still, we go backwards, we cannot afford to do that, but we also cannot afford to keep doing the same thing season in, season out.

Well no, like I said, we have the basis of a good squad, hence why I don’t think we need to be spending over £100m with a new manager or that the £50m Wenger has to spend in the summer isn’t that little for what we need to do.

Neglect the fact that I mentioned the league, okay then Tom. CL football isn’t just about how has the best squad, it’s also about who has the best tactics. Chelsea didn’t have the best team in 2012 and they somehow managed to win it, because they knew their strengths and limitations.

In the summer after the season finished, what was everyone saying we needed? A DM, ST and CB. No DM but luck out with Coquelin not being awful, £16m on an average one and a CB in the January window. Was left short in the summer and we got caught out.

Do you? Pretend as much as you want like you were wary of Monaco when the draw was made but pretty much everyone on this thread was jumping for joy when we got them because it was finally a team we should have the beating of, yet we didn’t.

Look at the context please. The landscape has changed and we shouldn’t be concerning ourselves with them.

Such a defeatist attitude. Because you think we can’t compete you are prepared to accept the same failings year after year?

We are never going to agree on this. You seem to think me asking for the team to do a bit better than just finishing in the top 4 and going out of the CL in March is unreasonable.

Considering Arkasia was the guy that said we should put in a 50m bid for Zlatan I wouldn't take him too seriously.




Posted from TSR Mobile

Wait, waittt, did you not say earlier that you would not really be impressed by 2nd as a sign of progress (i.e. what I would be happy with this season)? So you want us to win the title essentially this season. Or do you want us to come within a few points? Because that in substance is still...2nd. There is really very little difference in ambition between the two types of 2nd's.


You know what? I am not even going to dignify the quality of your post with a full reply because you are a consistent contradiction throughout your post.

We'll be alright in the weekend imo. Theo will probably start, and so will Ramsey.

Reckon Alexis really needs a rest - he's burning out and his form is suffering.

I would go with this:



We really need to see Gabriel in action now so he can merge in to the first team.

Basically give Ramsey a full game and bring on Santi for Ozil on the 60min mark.

Arteta is back in training and I think so is Jack. Also, where the **** is Gnabry?

Arsenal fans really are the worst, if this is how they react to a 2-0 win against stingy opponents. Can someone tell me if Chelsea fans reacted like this when they got chumped by Bradford and sent packing by 10-man PSG?

Arsenal fans really are the worst, if this is how they react to a 2-0 win against stingy opponents. Can someone tell me if Chelsea fans reacted like this when they got chumped by Bradford and sent packing by 10-man PSG?