Do you consider UKIP good or bad?

The north isn't hte Labour heartlands, the cities are, even in '97 Labour didn't exactly win a great number of rural seats, even in the north; even in the north those living in rural areas will still tend to be wealthier people who will, on the whole, have much more reason to vote Conservative than Labour.

Look at a map of the country coded by seat any time in the last 30 years.. Labour IS in the North and even in seats that are rural.

Look at Workington for example.. a rural seat in the north which has only ever voted labour except on one famous occaision in 1976.

This may or may not be true, depending on what considers when calculating net contribution.

For argument's sake, consider it to be true, how does that help a local authority plan for school places?

No. The question was a logical extension of the prior question.. i.e if you don't think people should be prosecuted based on nationality and you don't differentiate between nationality and race*.. then logically you don't believe in prosecution based on race.

Farage wants to push a "British jobs for British people" agenda. Under the existing law that can't happen. I take it he isn't confused.

If you want to take that as meaning racial discrimination then that is your opinion. It isn't mine.

Farage wants British people to be given priority for work in Britain. The current law ties Nationality and Race together. In order for Farage to get what he wants that law will need to be abolished. It seems logical to

Most people who tell me they would consider voting UKIP would have voted Labour most, if not all their lives.


I think the UKIP effect on Labour is being seriously underestimated by some. The effect on Tories are in Tory heartlands.. they are hardly going to swing to Labour. Labour probably won't finish second in such seats never mind first.

However in Northern seats, Labour heartlands, UKIP have already come a strong second at by elections.

UKIP are bad because:

1) They wish to remove the UK from the jurisdiction of the EU court of human rights. You heard me, UKIP wants the UK not to have to abide by laws that protect fundamental human rights and freedoms.

2) 'No to political correctness'- basically they'd like to create a platform where racist/homophobic/islamaphobic statements are no longer frowned upon. They say PC stifles free speech, I say not having it segregates society.

3) Their entire immigration policy is based on fear and intolerance. 'Immigrants put pressure on the healthcare system'- Nope, the elderly put pressure on the healthcare system and arguably, the NHS wouldn't function without immigrants.- this is one example, there's many more but I'm not really in the mood to list every single one.

4) Their policies are based on idealisms, not realisms. They want lower taxes but more police on the streets, improved roads. Fair enough- but where's that money going to come from?

5) Their immigration policy will see an increase in homelessness and crimes committed by immigrants. 'Immigrants must financially support themselves for 5 years before receiving state help'. Example: A migrant worker works in the UK for 2 years, brings his family here, things are looking good. Company he works for gets made redundant, can no longer afford things, is not entitled to benefits or any state help. Begins stealing to provide for his family.


Just a few I can think of off the top of my head

On topic: of course UKIP are a good thing. Such parties are needed now more than ever when Europeans are becoming a minority in their own countries and heading towards extinction if present trends don't change. Nobody wants to become a minority in his own country so it is only natural that opposition to this massive immigration will grow.

Because the local authority has more income. Obviously.

I'm no big immigration defender and would like to see us go to an Australian-style system of talents, but to use immigration as a byword for all that's wrong with this country is as false as it is unethical.

Wow. You actually compare native Brits who payed taxes to the country to total aliens and write as if both should have the same rights to for example health care. Unbelievable leftist stupidity right there.

It's no wonder you also support speech laws against speaking about ethnic differences, for example. You want people to be brainwashed into politically correct ortodoxia with no alternative out and no reasonable debate taking place. If possible at all, you would have it like Sweden where the media doesn't even touch stories like these:

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-28939089
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2971865/Student-reveals-taxi-driver-took-isolated-woodland-sexually-assaulted-demanded-50-fare-home.html

Also, what on Earth is the "EU court of human rights". There is no such thing. There is the ECHR which has nothing to do with the EU. You likely have never studied law to begin with.

On topic: of course UKIP are a good thing. Such parties are needed now more than ever when Europeans are becoming a minority in their own countries and heading towards extinction if present trends don't change. Nobody wants to become a minority in his own country so it is only natural that opposition to this massive immigration will grow.

What is it you are scared of?

EU migration or migration from outside the EU?

I'm not afraid of anything. I simply don't want the British to become a minority in Gerat Britain. How could that possibly be good for the Brits?

Why are you so afraid of voting for UKIP then? It's long due white men begin standing up for our own interests.

Why are you so afraid of voting for UKIP then? It's long due white men begin standing up for our own interests.

I'm pro-EU - that's probably the biggest reason.

Anyway, I didn't think UKIP was a party about race... that's more of a BNP kinda thing.

I disagree - the distinction between nationality and race is important. If it is the case that Farage sees the two as one and the same, that's very troubling.

In any event, the result is the same... Farage does want to see an end to laws which outlaw racial discrimination.

Maybe it is just you who is confused then. Because you said that under the current law, one can "prosecute people who discriminate based on race but not those who discriminate based on nationality."

I'll ask you a question: Under UKIP would discrimination on the grounds of RACE be illegal?

Given the choice, I'd take an actual result over a poll any day of the week.

So here's an actual result from a Labour heartland seat. The startling figure is the change in vote below:

Vote Share
Labour		57.4%
UKIP		23.9%
Community Action		10.7%
Conservative		4.7%
BNP		3.3%

Party	Candidate	Votes	Vote %	Change
Labour	Sam Murphy	1,084	57.4%	-22.7%
UKIP	Alan Freeman	451	23.9%	+23.9%
Community Action	Peter Franzen	203	10.7%	-1.0%
Conservative	Jonathan Cartwright	89	4.7%	-3.5%
BNP	Dennis Shambley	63	3.3%	+3.3%

UKIP are taking almost 5 times as many votes from the Conservatives than they are from Labour, they're even taking more votes from the Liberal Democrats than they are from Labour.

I'm on my phone do I can't decipher it, but by any chance does it show most kippers coming from labour? Oh, what a surprise, how many more votes did they have than the Tories in 2010, 5x? How about going and looking at a margibal where things aren't as obviously bias, or why not the extensive research that has been done on it...

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In a constituency where 8 out of 10 previously voted labour, 1 in 4 voted UKIP. There's a reason why. I've spoken to people from these areas, working class people coming from generations of people who voted labour. They feel labour have betrayed them. The problems that they suffer haven't gone away, they are unlikely to be gone by the time the elction rolls around.

it's the national swing that matters.