The Israel/Palestine Conflict Mk. IV

Well there is this for a start: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Jihad_Movement_in_Palestine#History_and_background

The West Bank is in Isreal, no?

Fair, but they're quite a bit smaller and we're talking a few years earlier at any rate.

What good is a country being a democracy if it commits war crimes?


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What country? Are we talking about Palestine here? Because they don't have a country remember.

You can't just dictate the terms of the discussion and refuse to answer inconvenient issues like for example Israel deciding that international law shouldn't apply to them

Those "war crimes" would not occur if its neighbours didn't have any trouble with its existence. Hamas keeps on provoking war, presumably with the intention of gaining the support of gullible folks such as yourself.

Anyway, whether or not a country is free is my primary method of distinguishing whether or not I want it to exist.

There isn't really any such thing as international law. Who decides those laws, and who enforces them? If it's the UN then we know it's a farce, because the UN is a tyrants' club and nobody should listen to a word they say. I support free, democratic societies, and from everything I've seen, the Israelis are the only people in the middle east (with few exceptions - notably the Kurds, and obviously voiceless minorities) who actually want that.

I thought we were talking about the pragmatic consequences of allowing a Palestinian state to exist.

Where I lose my alliance with Zionists is in the "Jewish state" aspect of Israel. I don't support it because it's the Jewish state, I support it because it's the democracy. In my view, the best solution would be for everyone in the occupied territories (or whatever you want to call them) to become Israeli citizens, but I know that not many people share that view, unfortunately.

It's neighbours want a sovereign nation of their own, what's so detestable about that? Is it not enough for you that the Zionists booted people off their land to satisfy their desire for a Jewish state?

I also find your inverted commas for war crimes to be laughable. If sniping kids isn't a war crime God knows what is. The only gullible people here are those like you who believe that Israel is the victim and that Palestine is the aggressor. Who occupied whose territory for goodness' sake?


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What are they putting in the Tel Aviv water Mark?


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Wait, wasn't Hamas founded in 1987 or something? The thing I linked to said it started in 1981.

Mark?

Hence why I said a few years.

Yes, but an Islamist political group having anti-Israel stance is not the same as jihad. The MB, whatever you think of them, are a political group, not a paramilitary or terrorist organisation.

Mark Regev. I presume that is who you are or at least your employer.


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If that's all they wanted then it would be fine. Unfortunately they also want an end to Israel. They have said so many times.

I count the jihad as encompassing all Islamist groups, whether or not they carry out explicit violence.

israel never at any time wanted peace- and thankfully netanyahu has made that very clear recently. At least we arnt under any false pretences anymore- zionists view palestinians as scum- they dont give a **** about peace

Much more recently they have called for a return to the 1967 borders and recognition of a Palestinian state. Which is pretty graceful considering that Israel was formed by appropriating land from others and the oppression that it has inflicted upon others.

Self determination is something that must be respected. I resent how Israel was formed and what it does but I can still respect its right to exist. The ball is in their court, they could end this bloodshed and suffering by accepting a two state solution and by ending the illegal occupation and settlements. If Hamas still launch rockets at them in such a scenario I would be the first to condemn them for it.


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And you think that is the problem? Regardless of what Israel or secular Palestinian groups like Fatah or PFLP do, the problem in Israel-Palestine is that Islamist groups oppose Israel (regardless of whether they actually do anything about it, or even whether they are Palestinian or not)?

Opposing Israel is one thing, believing Islamic dictatorships are good things is another.

Do you know any history at all? Your first statement is a pathetic attempt to make Israel look like a country which lives for war, thirsty for the blood of Palestinian children.
I haven't even bothered reading the rest.