Congratulations to the Greek left! The movement against austerity....
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Original post by MatureStudent36
do you think that we'd be able to claim that money back from the Greeks in the unlikely event of the Germans paying up.
Why would you claim that money back?
Original post by anastas
Why would you claim that money back?
Well, it did cost the UK taxpayer quite a bit of money financing Greeces liberation.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_history_of_Greece_during_World_War_II
Maybe the UK government could act in the same child like manner as the Greek government.
Original post by MatureStudent36
Well, it did cost the UK taxpayer quite a bit of money financing Greeces liberation.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_history_of_Greece_during_World_War_II
Maybe the UK government could act in the same child like manner as the Greek government.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_history_of_Greece_during_World_War_II
Maybe the UK government could act in the same child like manner as the Greek government.
Aah ok, thanks for the link btw. Greece was the second country after Russia in which most people (including civilians) were killed and Germany has not paid its dues to Greece for that. Whether that should happen now though is a different subject. What would happen if all the countries which were British colonies in the past claimed they want their money,cultural heritage etc back, do you think?
Original post by anastas
Aah ok, thanks for the link btw. Greece was the second country after Russia in which most people (including civilians) were killed and Germany has not paid its dues to Greece for that. Whether that should happen now though is a different subject. What would happen if all the countries which were British colonies in the past claimed they want their money,cultural heritage etc back, do you think?
Reperations were sorted out a long long time ago.
Greece is in financial difficulty and is acting like a child dragging up 70 year old history in order to try and get out of its modern day financial responsibilities.
I predict that Greeces whopping input into the eurozone (less than 2%) is about to get hammered in order for lessons in the importance of debt repayment to be taught.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by MatureStudent36
Relegation a werre sorted out a long long time ago.
Greece is in financial difficulty and is acting like a child dragging up 70 year old history in order to try and get out of its modern day financial responsibilities.
I predict that Greeces whopping input into the eurozone (less than 2%) is about to get hammered in order for lessons in the importance of debt repayment to be taught.
Greece is in financial difficulty and is acting like a child dragging up 70 year old history in order to try and get out of its modern day financial responsibilities.
I predict that Greeces whopping input into the eurozone (less than 2%) is about to get hammered in order for lessons in the importance of debt repayment to be taught.
Could you please explain what you mean in your first sentence?
My mother language isn't English.Original post by anastas
Could you please explain what you mean in your first sentence? My mother language isn't English.
My mother language isn't English.Reparations were sorted out a long time ago.
About half of Africa would disagree. And please dont compare apples and oranges. You are perfectly capable of discerning the circumstances surrounding both cases so don't play fool or use technicalities to sly your way out of a valid point made against your position.
Anyways, the reparations issue is a very old and complex one. Rather than being a 'child like behaviour' as you are so keen on calling it, it is actually a strategy that Greece is following given its position in the current talks with the german government, as the situation sees two countries with varying bargaining power and position having to pool all their available options to make a strong case. In any case though, Greece needs the money, yes. But it's not as if it's illegal for them to ask for it. Even German politicians agree that Greece does have the legal case to argue for the reparations. The only reason it has been 70 years before someone brought the issue to the table again was mostly the fact that other issues kept europe distracted for the vast majority of the later half of the 20th century (reconstruction, the cold war, the american-supported dictatorial regimes of southern europe, as well as playing nice to everyone for a couple decades to make the whole EU thing work). No offense but you are yet again displaying a very superficial and downright prejudiced, if I may say, viewpoint on the issue. I mean, what is this 'important lessons to be taught' talk about? Wouldn't these lessons that you are prescribing be better suited for countries like Japan and the US? Have you even seen their numbers recently? Or better yet, to countries like Germany that were pampered with massive debt haircuts back in the day? You seem far too keen to judge the entire nation of Greece. Even worse, you do so based on wrong information and figures, which you continue to defend despite being proven wrong multiple times. You are talking about 12 million people that youve never met or will meet in your entire life as if they're that one person you heard about who spent his parent's college fund on drugs and hookers. I hope I am not the only one who sense the rotting stentch of bias or, dare I say, racism in this whole premise.
Anyways, the reparations issue is a very old and complex one. Rather than being a 'child like behaviour' as you are so keen on calling it, it is actually a strategy that Greece is following given its position in the current talks with the german government, as the situation sees two countries with varying bargaining power and position having to pool all their available options to make a strong case. In any case though, Greece needs the money, yes. But it's not as if it's illegal for them to ask for it. Even German politicians agree that Greece does have the legal case to argue for the reparations. The only reason it has been 70 years before someone brought the issue to the table again was mostly the fact that other issues kept europe distracted for the vast majority of the later half of the 20th century (reconstruction, the cold war, the american-supported dictatorial regimes of southern europe, as well as playing nice to everyone for a couple decades to make the whole EU thing work). No offense but you are yet again displaying a very superficial and downright prejudiced, if I may say, viewpoint on the issue. I mean, what is this 'important lessons to be taught' talk about? Wouldn't these lessons that you are prescribing be better suited for countries like Japan and the US? Have you even seen their numbers recently? Or better yet, to countries like Germany that were pampered with massive debt haircuts back in the day? You seem far too keen to judge the entire nation of Greece. Even worse, you do so based on wrong information and figures, which you continue to defend despite being proven wrong multiple times. You are talking about 12 million people that youve never met or will meet in your entire life as if they're that one person you heard about who spent his parent's college fund on drugs and hookers. I hope I am not the only one who sense the rotting stentch of bias or, dare I say, racism in this whole premise.
Original post by MatureStudent36
Reparations were sorted out a long time ago.
Actually, in some areas of postwar issue resolution, reparations have only been resolved fairly recently - for example, payments from German companies to the survivors of slave labour in their factories and the restitution of stolen artworks to Jewish families.
There's no real reason why the issue of the seizure of Greek assets during WW2 by Germany shouldn't resurface, except that in a way its the wrong target, since the whole EU and the global banking system are deeply involved. If anything, the real enemy is the Euro and the Greeks probably foolhardy belief that the endemic problems of their country could be resolved by placing the economy in the hands of Brussels, except of course, it wasn't to be really, because the Euro isn't really centrally managed. It just opened the door for a mad borrowing binge.
Original post by Rakas21
Nothing complex about this issue at all. Greece will be taught an important lesson in international relations.. economic size matters. Greece aint getting reperations.
From what I can gather, they may well have something of a case. They just chose a crap way to bring it up and a terrible way to go about it.
Original post by Fullofsurprises
Actually, in some areas of postwar issue resolution, reparations have only been resolved fairly recently - for example, payments from German companies to the survivors of slave labour in their factories and the restitution of stolen artworks to Jewish families.
There's no real reason why the issue of the seizure of Greek assets during WW2 by Germany shouldn't resurface, except that in a way its the wrong target, since the whole EU and the global banking system are deeply involved. If anything, the real enemy is the Euro and the Greeks probably foolhardy belief that the endemic problems of their country could be resolved by placing the economy in the hands of Brussels, except of course, it wasn't to be really, because the Euro isn't really centrally managed. It just opened the door for a mad borrowing binge.
There's no real reason why the issue of the seizure of Greek assets during WW2 by Germany shouldn't resurface, except that in a way its the wrong target, since the whole EU and the global banking system are deeply involved. If anything, the real enemy is the Euro and the Greeks probably foolhardy belief that the endemic problems of their country could be resolved by placing the economy in the hands of Brussels, except of course, it wasn't to be really, because the Euro isn't really centrally managed. It just opened the door for a mad borrowing binge.
Come on FoS. Even you must realise that the Greeks messed up big time and are acting like kids.
It'll be interesting to see how the Greeks get made an example of.
the litigation you talk of was between descendants and companies. Not at the government level.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by MatureStudent36
Come on FoS. Even you must realise that the Greeks messed up big time and are acting like kids.
It'll be interesting to see how the Greeks get made an example of.
the litigation you talk of was between descendants and companies. Not at the government level.
It'll be interesting to see how the Greeks get made an example of.
the litigation you talk of was between descendants and companies. Not at the government level.
Some of it was government-level, for example, the US demands that Switzerland open up to scrutiny on Nazi loot in their banks.
My point is there is no objective reason why Greece shouldn't raise this, regardless of the fact that they may well be doing it for internal political reasons right now.
Original post by Fullofsurprises
Some of it was government-level, for example, the US demands that Switzerland open up to scrutiny on Nazi loot in their banks.
My point is there is no objective reason why Greece shouldn't raise this, regardless of the fact that they may well be doing it for internal political reasons right now.
My point is there is no objective reason why Greece shouldn't raise this, regardless of the fact that they may well be doing it for internal political reasons right now.
Do you think UK Plc can start demanding war reparations off the Germans now?
Could UK Plc start requesting pay back for stopping the communists taking over in Greece post WW2?
Or do you think Greece is acting like a petulant child?
I'm a bit skint at the moment. Can I make a legal challenge against Italy for what the Roman empire stole from my ancestors?
Original post by MatureStudent36
Do you think UK Plc can start demanding war reparations off the Germans now?
Could UK Plc start requesting pay back for stopping the communists taking over in Greece post WW2?
Or do you think Greece is acting like a petulant child?
I'm a bit skint at the moment. Can I make a legal challenge against Italy for what the Roman empire stole from my ancestors?
Could UK Plc start requesting pay back for stopping the communists taking over in Greece post WW2?
Or do you think Greece is acting like a petulant child?
I'm a bit skint at the moment. Can I make a legal challenge against Italy for what the Roman empire stole from my ancestors?
Are you defending the right of the Third Reich to be free of postwar retribution?
What a totally silly set of remarks. Most countries in the world have agreed to programmes supportive of repatriating stolen wealth that the Nazis took. This kind of view you have just shows how nasty some UKIP people really are, preferring to side with the SS and their massive theft than to accept the principle of reparation applies at least to some things.
Original post by Fullofsurprises
Are you defending the right of the Third Reich to be free of postwar retribution?
What a totally silly set of remarks. Most countries in the world have agreed to programmes supportive of repatriating stolen wealth that the Nazis took. This kind of view you have just shows how nasty some UKIP people really are, preferring to side with the SS and their massive theft than to accept the principle of reparation applies at least to some things.
What a totally silly set of remarks. Most countries in the world have agreed to programmes supportive of repatriating stolen wealth that the Nazis took. This kind of view you have just shows how nasty some UKIP people really are, preferring to side with the SS and their massive theft than to accept the principle of reparation applies at least to some things.
Oh my god. You really can't be this blinded can you.
Greek ran up a huge debt by itself and are now turning on the nation who bailed them out.
Socialism. Spending other people's money and screwing over the working classes since its inception.
Original post by Fullofsurprises
Are you defending the right of the Third Reich to be free of postwar retribution?
What a totally silly set of remarks. Most countries in the world have agreed to programmes supportive of repatriating stolen wealth that the Nazis took. This kind of view you have just shows how nasty some UKIP people really are, preferring to side with the SS and their massive theft than to accept the principle of reparation applies at least to some things.
What a totally silly set of remarks. Most countries in the world have agreed to programmes supportive of repatriating stolen wealth that the Nazis took. This kind of view you have just shows how nasty some UKIP people really are, preferring to side with the SS and their massive theft than to accept the principle of reparation applies at least to some things.
Does anyone have an estimate of the total sum of actual damages that would be owed by Germany, if that were the standard and were applied to all countries and persons the German government harmed?
I had thought that most countries settled for token sums or nothing in order to avoid a repeat of the effects of the Versailles reparations regime. I don't know the legal situation on whether further claims could be brought. Morally, it seems to me that Greece doesn't have an unreasonable case in its own right, but I suspect applying reparations claims universally would result in an impractically huge sum.
Original post by Fullofsurprises
Are you defending the right of the Third Reich to be free of postwar retribution?
What a totally silly set of remarks. Most countries in the world have agreed to programmes supportive of repatriating stolen wealth that the Nazis took. This kind of view you have just shows how nasty some UKIP people really are, preferring to side with the SS and their massive theft than to accept the principle of reparation applies at least to some things.
What a totally silly set of remarks. Most countries in the world have agreed to programmes supportive of repatriating stolen wealth that the Nazis took. This kind of view you have just shows how nasty some UKIP people really are, preferring to side with the SS and their massive theft than to accept the principle of reparation applies at least to some things.
Modern Germany is not the Third Reich and at any rate, i'd say 70 years is more than enough time to let it pass. Greece has no more right than Africa does to Britain.
Original post by Rakas21
Modern Germany is not the Third Reich and at any rate, i'd say 70 years is more than enough time to let it pass. Greece has no more right than Africa does to Britain.
Actually, legally, modern Germany has accepted responsibility for the actions of Nazi Germany and has often paid reparations and done other things, particularly in relation to Jewish people.
The situation regarding the Greek forced loan is interesting, as that never was settled but Germany did settle other forced Nazi loans in the 50s, 60s and 70s, in particular those from France and Holland.
Original post by Observatory
Does anyone have an estimate of the total sum of actual damages that would be owed by Germany, if that were the standard and were applied to all countries and persons the German government harmed?
I had thought that most countries settled for token sums or nothing in order to avoid a repeat of the effects of the Versailles reparations regime. I don't know the legal situation on whether further claims could be brought. Morally, it seems to me that Greece doesn't have an unreasonable case in its own right, but I suspect applying reparations claims universally would result in an impractically huge sum.
I had thought that most countries settled for token sums or nothing in order to avoid a repeat of the effects of the Versailles reparations regime. I don't know the legal situation on whether further claims could be brought. Morally, it seems to me that Greece doesn't have an unreasonable case in its own right, but I suspect applying reparations claims universally would result in an impractically huge sum.
The Yalta and Potsdam councils agreed not to impose Versailles-style massive reparations, but Germany has often paid out voluntary reparations and in addition of course they were heavily expropriated (some would say 'justly punished') by the Soviets after the war. Later on, Germany has given heavy payments to Israel and has also put large sums into the victims of slave labour in more recent years.
The true figure would obviously be staggering - German actions led to the deaths of tens of millions of people, crippled entire countries and laid waste to much of Russia, Ukraine, Poland and other territories..
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