Are the Tories going too far?
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[QUOTE="Troytheboy;54545897"]
I asked a direct question
But I ask again are you saying the reason muslim do not prevent hate speakers is because of fear
Original post by PopaPork
I have answered this in my other quote,
I have answered this in my other quote,
I asked a direct question
But I ask again are you saying the reason muslim do not prevent hate speakers is because of fear
[QUOTE="PopaPork;54545989"]
So are you saying that you should also receive an ASBO because of your friend's action.
Let's tailor this to the Muslim scenario.
You know full well that if you tell the shopkeeper or police about your friend stealing a sweet . He has connections that will possibly murder you whilst walking home in your local area.
Original post by Troytheboy
If i am there and I know he's stolen something I am culpable if I do nothing to prevent this
This is common
If i am there and I know he's stolen something I am culpable if I do nothing to prevent this
This is common
So are you saying that you should also receive an ASBO because of your friend's action.
Let's tailor this to the Muslim scenario.
You know full well that if you tell the shopkeeper or police about your friend stealing a sweet . He has connections that will possibly murder you whilst walking home in your local area.
[QUOTE="PopaPork;54546003"]
I have already stated 'It is one possible reason, I am speculating'. This clearly shows that I am doubtful and having an educated guess much like the members of parliament would be doing, until they send a sociologist to research the cause. So instead focusing on trying to gain the leverage by pressuring me to answer 'no' listen to what I have stated.
Original post by Troytheboy
I asked a direct question
But I ask again are you saying the reason muslim do not prevent hate speakers is because of fear
I asked a direct question
But I ask again are you saying the reason muslim do not prevent hate speakers is because of fear
I have already stated 'It is one possible reason, I am speculating'. This clearly shows that I am doubtful and having an educated guess much like the members of parliament would be doing, until they send a sociologist to research the cause. So instead focusing on trying to gain the leverage by pressuring me to answer 'no' listen to what I have stated.
[QUOTE="PopaPork;54546003"]
You are not sure of the reasoning neither.
Original post by Troytheboy
I asked a direct question
But I ask again are you saying the reason muslim do not prevent hate speakers is because of fear
I asked a direct question
But I ask again are you saying the reason muslim do not prevent hate speakers is because of fear
You are not sure of the reasoning neither.
About friggin time.
When your in my position where you grow up in a moderate Muslim family and see all these non-moderates who have been 'left to it' take the complete and utter piss.
The problem is previous Governments have not wanted to get involved and let people 'get on with it', as a result the Saudis Arabians using their extreme wealth [our money ironically] have been allowed to export their particular form of extreme Islam worldwide, infiltrating mosques and taking over as the 'normal' face of Islam. Even Muslims don't know what's normal anymore because they have been brainwashed by Saudi Imams and their insane Wahhabi Islam extremism.
And yes the tories HAVE gone to far. To far in phasing in extreme benefit sanctions and forcing people into a culture of food banks, to far in selling off the NHS to investors they have links with, to far in austerity forcing councils to cut services like meals on wheels and bring mental, social and elder health care literally to its knees through chronic underfunding.
But this one time, if anything i'd say a bit late at this stage, closing the stable door after the horse has bolted and it's not even their fault it's successive Governments and cumulative failure as usual.
When your in my position where you grow up in a moderate Muslim family and see all these non-moderates who have been 'left to it' take the complete and utter piss.
The problem is previous Governments have not wanted to get involved and let people 'get on with it', as a result the Saudis Arabians using their extreme wealth [our money ironically] have been allowed to export their particular form of extreme Islam worldwide, infiltrating mosques and taking over as the 'normal' face of Islam. Even Muslims don't know what's normal anymore because they have been brainwashed by Saudi Imams and their insane Wahhabi Islam extremism.
And yes the tories HAVE gone to far. To far in phasing in extreme benefit sanctions and forcing people into a culture of food banks, to far in selling off the NHS to investors they have links with, to far in austerity forcing councils to cut services like meals on wheels and bring mental, social and elder health care literally to its knees through chronic underfunding.
But this one time, if anything i'd say a bit late at this stage, closing the stable door after the horse has bolted and it's not even their fault it's successive Governments and cumulative failure as usual.
(edited 9 years ago)
[QUOTE="Troytheboy;54546099"]
I suggest you go and learn how the law works but who mentioned ASBO's
but I hate the idea that you live in fear all the time
this is now way to live but again you have not answered my direct question
Original post by PopaPork
So are you saying that you should also receive an ASBO because of your friend's action.
Let's tailor this to the Muslim scenario.
You know full well that if you tell the shopkeeper or police about your friend stealing a sweet . He has connections that will possibly murder you whilst walking home in your local area.
So are you saying that you should also receive an ASBO because of your friend's action.
Let's tailor this to the Muslim scenario.
You know full well that if you tell the shopkeeper or police about your friend stealing a sweet . He has connections that will possibly murder you whilst walking home in your local area.
I suggest you go and learn how the law works but who mentioned ASBO's
but I hate the idea that you live in fear all the time
this is now way to live but again you have not answered my direct question
[QUOTE="Troytheboy;54546155"]
Then you are building a straw man argument but do tell us of the 'other' possible reason Muslims have done little from preventing hate speakers attending their mosques.
Original post by PopaPork
I have already stated 'It is one possible reason, I am speculating'.
I have already stated 'It is one possible reason, I am speculating'.
Then you are building a straw man argument but do tell us of the 'other' possible reason Muslims have done little from preventing hate speakers attending their mosques.
(edited 9 years ago)
[QUOTE="PopaPork;54546387"]
Who stated that I live in fear? You jump to conclusions like a kangaroo. The other possible reasons are because there are a small amount of extremist in relation to the Muslim community not every Muslim has a connection with one. Another reason is the extremist operate under covert conditions and only speak to those who seem interested. Another reason is they may believe in free speech. Do you want me to think of more? Your mocking tone and lack of ideas or reasoning suggest that you only have a superficial idea of this topic and your record of forum post and feedback concretes this view.
Original post by Troytheboy
Then you are building a straw man argument but do tell us of the 'other' possible reason Muslims have done little from preventing hate speakers attending their mosques.
Then you are building a straw man argument but do tell us of the 'other' possible reason Muslims have done little from preventing hate speakers attending their mosques.
Who stated that I live in fear? You jump to conclusions like a kangaroo. The other possible reasons are because there are a small amount of extremist in relation to the Muslim community not every Muslim has a connection with one. Another reason is the extremist operate under covert conditions and only speak to those who seem interested. Another reason is they may believe in free speech. Do you want me to think of more? Your mocking tone and lack of ideas or reasoning suggest that you only have a superficial idea of this topic and your record of forum post and feedback concretes this view.
[QUOTE="Troytheboy;54546781"]
You keep implying the reason muslims don't take action against hate speakers is fear you have stated this over and over
Perhaps the reason why noting is done is because most muslim support them
There is more evidence for this that your 'living in fear' argument
Take the Naik example from 2010
Original post by PopaPork
Who stated that I live in fear? You jump to conclusions like a kangaroo. The other possible reasons are because there are a small amount of extremist in relation to the Muslim community not every Muslim has a connection with one. Another reason is the extremist operate under covert conditions and only speak to those who seem interested. Another reason is they may believe in free speech. Do you want me to think of more? Your mocking tone and lack of ideas or reasoning suggest that you only have a superficial idea of this topic and your record of forum post and feedback concretes this view.
Who stated that I live in fear? You jump to conclusions like a kangaroo. The other possible reasons are because there are a small amount of extremist in relation to the Muslim community not every Muslim has a connection with one. Another reason is the extremist operate under covert conditions and only speak to those who seem interested. Another reason is they may believe in free speech. Do you want me to think of more? Your mocking tone and lack of ideas or reasoning suggest that you only have a superficial idea of this topic and your record of forum post and feedback concretes this view.
You keep implying the reason muslims don't take action against hate speakers is fear you have stated this over and over
Perhaps the reason why noting is done is because most muslim support them
There is more evidence for this that your 'living in fear' argument
Take the Naik example from 2010
[QUOTE="PopaPork;54546915"]
Perhaps they do.
Original post by Troytheboy
You keep implying the reason muslims don't take action against hate speakers is fear you have stated this over and over
Perhaps the reason why noting is done is because most muslim support them
There is more evidence for this that your 'living in fear' argument
Take the Naik example from 2010
You keep implying the reason muslims don't take action against hate speakers is fear you have stated this over and over
Perhaps the reason why noting is done is because most muslim support them
There is more evidence for this that your 'living in fear' argument
Take the Naik example from 2010
Perhaps they do.
[QUOTE="Troytheboy;54547133"]
In which case it is right that we now take action
as I said originally we left this to the muslim community and they have failed so now further action is now needed
But you know what you don't want your mosque closed all you have to do is make sure there are no hate speakers invited there
Original post by PopaPork
Perhaps they do.
Perhaps they do.
In which case it is right that we now take action
as I said originally we left this to the muslim community and they have failed so now further action is now needed
But you know what you don't want your mosque closed all you have to do is make sure there are no hate speakers invited there
[QUOTE="PopaPork;54547235"]
Why have you assumed I am Muslim? I am not a Muslim. I suppose time is the fortune teller, we can only wait. Our petty arguments are trivial.
Original post by Troytheboy
In which case it is right that we now take action
as I said originally we left this to the muslim community and they have failed so now further action is now needed
But you know what you don't want your mosque closed all you have to do is make sure there are no hate speakers invited there
In which case it is right that we now take action
as I said originally we left this to the muslim community and they have failed so now further action is now needed
But you know what you don't want your mosque closed all you have to do is make sure there are no hate speakers invited there
Why have you assumed I am Muslim? I am not a Muslim. I suppose time is the fortune teller, we can only wait. Our petty arguments are trivial.
Original post by Raymat
This is a bit ridiculous. If they have a problem with radical speakers/teachers/imams then they might as well ban them, arrest them or even deport them but this is a bad idea;
http://www.politics.co.uk/news/2015/03/23/conservative-party-to-introduce-mosque-closure-orders
http://www.politics.co.uk/news/2015/03/23/conservative-party-to-introduce-mosque-closure-orders
I think that it's an excellent idea: Islamic extremism (and all religious extremism in general) needs to be stamped out of Britain.
Yet, the best policy would be to prevent religious people from expressing their radical ideas in public (this is particularly relevant for Christans who try to covert you on the high street). If that meant banning religious worship from everywhere except in church/chapel/mosque/synagogue and in the home, then so be it. The world would be a better place without these radicals preaching everywhere you go: they're worse than the homeless begging on the street.
[QUOTE="Troytheboy;54547329"]
Sorry you seems to know what happens in mosques
but take the Naik event that was to be held in 2010 they estimates 200000 muslim would attend and he would be speaking in mosques all over the UK
he was eventually banned form entering. It is things like this that need to be prevented and if the threat of being shut down stop it then so be it.
Original post by PopaPork
Why have you assumed I am Muslim? I am not a Muslim. I suppose time is the fortune teller, we can only wait. Our petty arguments are trivial.
Why have you assumed I am Muslim? I am not a Muslim. I suppose time is the fortune teller, we can only wait. Our petty arguments are trivial.
Sorry you seems to know what happens in mosques
but take the Naik event that was to be held in 2010 they estimates 200000 muslim would attend and he would be speaking in mosques all over the UK
he was eventually banned form entering. It is things like this that need to be prevented and if the threat of being shut down stop it then so be it.
[QUOTE="PopaPork;54547235"]
What utter tosh, and expectedly so.
This is just a cheap shot by TM to play into the hands of islamophobes and bigots like yourself, and it seems to be working like a treat.
Original post by Troytheboy
In which case it is right that we now take action
as I said originally we left this to the muslim community and they have failed so now further action is now needed
But you know what you don't want your mosque closed all you have to do is make sure there are no hate speakers invited there
In which case it is right that we now take action
as I said originally we left this to the muslim community and they have failed so now further action is now needed
But you know what you don't want your mosque closed all you have to do is make sure there are no hate speakers invited there
What utter tosh, and expectedly so.
This is just a cheap shot by TM to play into the hands of islamophobes and bigots like yourself, and it seems to be working like a treat.
[QUOTE="Al-farhan;54548063"]
Yes it will work a treat.
We've tried leavening you to get your own house in order and you have failed in a spectacular fashion
It's time now for the government to step in as we have had enough
Original post by PopaPork
What utter tosh, and expectedly so.
This is just a cheap shot by TM to play into the hands of islamophobes and bigots like yourself, and it seems to be working like a treat.
What utter tosh, and expectedly so.
This is just a cheap shot by TM to play into the hands of islamophobes and bigots like yourself, and it seems to be working like a treat.
Yes it will work a treat.
We've tried leavening you to get your own house in order and you have failed in a spectacular fashion
It's time now for the government to step in as we have had enough
[QUOTE="PopaPork;54547679"]
I am unfamiliar with this event, but I will certainly read up about it later. I am all for stopping extremist spreading possible views that could cause social unrest but in my perspective I understand how prominent religion can be to Muslims. Most (I say with no evidence, but from personal experience and their community behavior) feel excluded from society due to the media coverage and the assumption that they are 'extremist' from the community. If the government were to remove their Mosque without a very good reason. For example: there was a 'Naik' alike preaching regularly or there was high activity of extremist views in a particular mosque. I can place a bet on it the Muslims will feel violated and excluded which will result in some type of social unrest eventually.
Of course I could be wrong, but hey ho.
Original post by Troytheboy
Sorry you seems to know what happens in mosques
but take the Naik event that was to be held in 2010 they estimates 200000 muslim would attend and he would be speaking in mosques all over the UK
he was eventually banned form entering. It is things like this that need to be prevented and if the threat of being shut down stop it then so be it.
Sorry you seems to know what happens in mosques
but take the Naik event that was to be held in 2010 they estimates 200000 muslim would attend and he would be speaking in mosques all over the UK
he was eventually banned form entering. It is things like this that need to be prevented and if the threat of being shut down stop it then so be it.
I am unfamiliar with this event, but I will certainly read up about it later. I am all for stopping extremist spreading possible views that could cause social unrest but in my perspective I understand how prominent religion can be to Muslims. Most (I say with no evidence, but from personal experience and their community behavior) feel excluded from society due to the media coverage and the assumption that they are 'extremist' from the community. If the government were to remove their Mosque without a very good reason. For example: there was a 'Naik' alike preaching regularly or there was high activity of extremist views in a particular mosque. I can place a bet on it the Muslims will feel violated and excluded which will result in some type of social unrest eventually.
Of course I could be wrong, but hey ho.
[QUOTE="Troytheboy;54548195"]
You need to pop onto the thread 'what do you think of' where we have a muslim telling me I can be gay but have to accept responsibility for this when I am killed for being in a loving relationship
Now where do you think he learns this intolerance of me?
No tell me why should I make any effort to get this included in our society
Original post by PopaPork
I am unfamiliar with this event, but I will certainly read up about it later. I am all for stopping extremist spreading possible views that could cause social unrest but in my perspective I understand how prominent religion can be to Muslims. Most (I say with no evidence, but from personal experience and their community behavior) feel excluded from society due to the media coverage and the assumption that they are 'extremist' from the community. If the government were to remove their Mosque without a very good reason. For example: there was a 'Naik' alike preaching regularly or there was high activity of extremist views in a particular mosque. I can place a bet on it the Muslims will feel violated and excluded which will result in some type of social unrest eventually.
Of course I could be wrong, but hey ho.
I am unfamiliar with this event, but I will certainly read up about it later. I am all for stopping extremist spreading possible views that could cause social unrest but in my perspective I understand how prominent religion can be to Muslims. Most (I say with no evidence, but from personal experience and their community behavior) feel excluded from society due to the media coverage and the assumption that they are 'extremist' from the community. If the government were to remove their Mosque without a very good reason. For example: there was a 'Naik' alike preaching regularly or there was high activity of extremist views in a particular mosque. I can place a bet on it the Muslims will feel violated and excluded which will result in some type of social unrest eventually.
Of course I could be wrong, but hey ho.
You need to pop onto the thread 'what do you think of' where we have a muslim telling me I can be gay but have to accept responsibility for this when I am killed for being in a loving relationship
Now where do you think he learns this intolerance of me?
No tell me why should I make any effort to get this included in our society
[QUOTE="PopaPork;54548135"]
You are having a laugh right?
Well you always do, so it shouldn't be even asked.
What do you think this will do about extremists, the mosque has been closed but their extreme views still exist and even proven:
''look this is what we have been saying this is a war on us a war on islam, where have the moderates taken you?! ''....etc etc This will play sweetly into the hands of extremists and they will say what they have been saying all along is true. It will turn more to the extremists than doing the opposite. Well that could be her original intent since contards are well knowing for lies and scheming the other day they were allying with the EDL!!
Also what would you know about what mosques have done?! Jack sh!t
Extremists rarely go to mosques they prefer their chat rooms and small group meetings.
So if this is a step to curb extremism and fight it then it has failed before it's even enacted.
Original post by Al-farhan
Yes it will work a treat.
We've tried leavening you to get your own house in order and you have failed in a spectacular fashion
It's time now for the government to step in as we have had enough
Yes it will work a treat.
We've tried leavening you to get your own house in order and you have failed in a spectacular fashion
It's time now for the government to step in as we have had enough
You are having a laugh right?
Well you always do, so it shouldn't be even asked.
What do you think this will do about extremists, the mosque has been closed but their extreme views still exist and even proven:
''look this is what we have been saying this is a war on us a war on islam, where have the moderates taken you?! ''....etc etc This will play sweetly into the hands of extremists and they will say what they have been saying all along is true. It will turn more to the extremists than doing the opposite. Well that could be her original intent since contards are well knowing for lies and scheming the other day they were allying with the EDL!!
Also what would you know about what mosques have done?! Jack sh!t
Extremists rarely go to mosques they prefer their chat rooms and small group meetings.
So if this is a step to curb extremism and fight it then it has failed before it's even enacted.
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