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Rights of the father.

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Reply 140
Avatar for 41b
41b
5
Original post by DorianGrayism
Yes. That is correct, since she has Financial and Physical responsibility for the child.

Men are not required to pay or take any of the risk during Pregnancy, so their opinion is irrelevant.

If you are dumb enough to have sex without a condom and produce a baby then it is your fault.


To classify pregnancy as physical responsibility is disingenuous. Pregnancy is more like a service being performed, with some elements of responsibility that would also extend to the mother's own health and are so, in the sense of being responsibilities solely for the child, nullified.

Both parents have shared physical responsibility for the child (after the mother has performed her service) and both have financial responsibility.

I don't really understand how this is beyond you. It is a really simple concept. A woman can have an abortion and deprive the right of fatherhood without his consent or choice. A father should have the option of removing himself from the equation without her consent or choice. Both of their freedoms are preserved in this context. That is simple equality.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by ChickenMadness
But a woman can choose to have sex and THEN be absolved of all responsibility.

The man can't.



Well thats a father's child that's getting aborted. It wouldn't exist without the father. So ye it does have something to do with him lol.

The man doesn't have to carry the child for 9 months and then shove it out in a mass of pain. So no it isn't to do with him. If he wanted a child that badly he could adopt or have a partner that also wants a child.
Original post by ChickenMadness


Well thats a father's child that's getting aborted. It wouldn't exist without the father. So ye it does have something to do with him lol.


I am not talking about a Genetic link. I don't care about that during Pregnancy.
Original post by 41b
Physical responsibility is an irrelevance. At most that is a service being performed, not a responsibility.


No, it is completely relevant. The woman takes the Physical and health risks of having a baby and has her vagina ripped open at the end of it. Not the male.
Reply 144
Avatar for 41b
41b
5
Original post by DorianGrayism
No, it is completely relevant. The woman takes the Physical and health risks of having a baby and has her vagina ripped open at the end of it. Not the male.


I've edited my post so please reply to the new one instead.
Original post by DorianGrayism
Yes. That is correct, since she has Financial and Physical responsibility for the child.

Men are not required to pay or take any of the risk during Pregnancy, so their opinion is irrelevant.

If you are dumb enough to have sex without a condom and produce a baby then it is your fault.


But the man also has financial responsibility for the child once it is born. And if the man were primary custodian would have physical responsibility too.

Equally women are not required to take any of the risk of pregnancy, childbirth, child rearing.

Condoms aren't 100% effective. Also what if the girl poked holes in the condom?
There was a case in USA of a woman giving a man a blowjob then keeping the sperm to impregnate herself with lol. The man had to pay child support.

Also the same argument can be used against women. If you were dumb enough to have sex you shouldn't be given any rights. Bit of a silly argument.


Pregnancy, childbirth, childrearing, paying for said child are all connected. Abortion eliminates all subsequent responsibilities.
The man should be able to eliminate his responsibilities too.

I don't understand why you're arguing so hard against that.
Original post by 41b
To classify pregnancy as physical responsibility is disingenuous. Pregnancy is more like a service being performed, with some elements of responsibility that would also extend to the mother's own health and are so, in the sense of being responsibilities solely for the child, nullified.

Both parents have shared physical responsibility for the child (after the mother has performed her service) and both have financial responsibility.

I don't really understand how this is beyond you. It is a really simple concept. A woman can have an abortion and deprive the right of fatherhood without his consent or choice. A father should have the option of removing himself from the equation without her consent or choice. Both of their freedoms are preserved in this context. That is simple equality.


I don't care what parents do after pregnancy.

During Pregnancy, there is only one person who has to take the Financial and Physical risk. That is the Mother. The law does not force the Father to take any part in it.

Therefore, his opinion and "freedom" is completely irrelevant once he has had unprotected sex.
Original post by DorianGrayism
I am not talking about a Genetic link. I don't care about that during Pregnancy.


But it's relevant. Doesn't matter if you don't care about it.
Original post by ChickenMadness
But the man also has financial responsibility for the child once it is born. And if the man were primary custodian would have physical responsibility too.

Equally women are not required to take any of the risk of pregnancy, childbirth, child rearing..


Sorry, but you do realise that Pregnancy is fairly dangerous? It is only because of significant medical intervention that death rates are fairly low.

Stop saying that a woman is not required to take any of the risk of pregnancy or childbirth. It is disgraceful.
Original post by DorianGrayism
I don't care what parents do after pregnancy.

During Pregnancy, there is only one person who has to take the Financial and Physical risk. That is the Mother. The law does not force the Father to take any part in it.

Therefore, his opinion and "freedom" is completely irrelevant once he has had unprotected sex.

Again it doesn't matter what you care about. You can't ignore facts just because you don't care about them
Original post by ChickenMadness
But it's relevant. Doesn't matter if you don't care about it.


WEll, it isn't relevant because as I said before, the man has no rights during Pregnancy.
Original post by DorianGrayism
Sorry, but you do realise that Pregnancy is fairly dangerous? It is only because of significant medical intervention that death rates are fairly low.

Stop saying that a woman is not required to take any of the risk of pregnancy or childbirth. It is disgraceful.


How is stating a fact disgraceful? An abortion prevents pregnancy
Original post by DorianGrayism
WEll, it isn't relevant because as I said before, the man has no rights during Pregnancy.

Which is what this whole debate is about :laugh:
Original post by ChickenMadness
How is stating a fact disgraceful? An abortion prevents pregnancy


You made no reference to Abortion. Anyway, it makes no difference,

So, then a man is not required to take any of the risk either if a woman has an abortion. It makes no difference either way.
Original post by ChickenMadness
Which is what this whole debate is about :laugh:


And that is the way it should stay since he has no Financial or Physical responsibility during pregnancy.
Reply 155
Avatar for 41b
41b
5
Original post by DorianGrayism
I don't care what parents do after pregnancy.

During Pregnancy, there is only one person who has to take the Financial and Physical risk. That is the Mother. The law does not force the Father to take any part in it.

Therefore, his opinion and "freedom" is completely irrelevant once he has had unprotected sex.


:s-smilie: Alright.

I'm not really sure what your point is.

On the one hand you don't care what parents do after pregnancy. Presumably that would include letting the father relinquish his right to the child, and responsibilities, without penalty.

On the other hand you seem to be focused on pregnancy.

There seems to be some sort of conceptual disagreement you have based on this view you have about pregnancy. I'm not sure I follow it, but let's accept it for now.

So your view is rather that upon birth, both parents have the right to choose whether they want to take part in the child's life? And consequently, at that point, they should be able to make individual decisions without penalties?

That is entirely in line with what, I believe, ChickenMadness and I also believe. I am pro-life and I prefer a woman bears a child to term and upon birth the couple make a decision about how it is raised, or given to adoption.

However, I believe ChickenMadness' point is that abortion, as it is a single-party relinquishing of parental responsibility, ought to also include a counterparty right to relinquish responsibility.

Your point seems to be that pregnancy itself has some sort of cost. In that case there could be damages paid by the man for lost wages in the case he doesn't want to have the child but the woman does.

Having said that, the simple point that the woman has a get out of jail free card from pregnancy itself, while the man does not, is an issue of simple equality. If the man is made to pay restitituion for the service of the pregnancy, then it is still the case that he is being unequally penalised for the woman's choice.

If we have abortion, then we must have equal abortion for any type of consistency. In my view it'd be more sensible to have illegal abortion (after a very short initial period and a relinqiushment choice by the man in that period) and allow both parents to choose their participation upon the birth of the child.
Original post by DorianGrayism
You made no reference to Abortion. Anyway, it makes no difference,

So, then a man is not required to take any of the risk either if a woman has an abortion. It makes no difference either way.


Yes I did in previous posts lol.

But if the woman doesn't decide to have an abortion. Then he is required to pay child support for the next 18 years. So yes it does make a difference what the woman decides to do.

Original post by DorianGrayism
And that is the way it should stay since he has no Financial or Physical responsibility during pregnancy.


Which is disagree with.
Original post by 41b


However, I believe ChickenMadness' point is that abortion, as it is a single-party relinquishing of parental responsibility, ought to also include a counterparty right to relinquish responsibility.

.


Yes that is my point lol.

The woman has literally no responsibilities AT ALL.

She doesn't have to be pregnant, give birth, raise a child, pay for a child if she doesn't want to. But the man does have to do the latter whether he wants to or not.
Original post by ChickenMadness
Yes I did in previous posts lol.

But if the woman doesn't decide to have an abortion. Then he is required to pay child support for the next 18 years. So yes it does make a difference what the woman decides to do.


I know. He had full control of the situation. Unfortunately, he decided to put his penis in.

Original post by ChickenMadness
Which is disagree with.


Well, till Men can have Financial and Physical respsibility during pregnancy, there isn't much I can do to help you.
Original post by DorianGrayism
I know. He had full control of the situation. Unfortunately, he decided to put his penis in.



Well, till Men can have Financial and Physical respsibility during pregnancy, there isn't much I can do to help you.


Unless he was sexually assaulted. Which our current laws wouldn't take into account.
(edited 9 years ago)

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