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Plane crash: Germanwings A320 crashes in French Alps

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I had a bit of an odd feeling about this one. I wonder if there might be any link to what happened on MH370? If we had the MH370 black box, would we hear something similar?

Or is it something like this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EgyptAir_Flight_990#Flight_recorder_data
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by joey11223
Tbh I was thinking this, you surely don't want a one way lockable door in case you do get a suicidal pilot, or passenger gets in etc. So if it turns out the co-pilot was able to lock the pilot out....that'll be a serious issue.


I'd say that post-9/11, they were almost certainly more concerned about a situation where hostage-takers on the other side could coerce members of the crew to opening the door to allow them to take control of the plane.

By far the best way to deal with this would be to have a master control back at the airline's operations centre that could override the lockout.
Reply 82
Avatar for esbo
esbo
11
I am seeing some reports that it was a Malaysian born female pilot, I can't confirm anything though could be some sort of hoax,
it is on this site

https://vatstats.net/pilots/1107082

[h="2"]Pilot Aning Wong ZBAA 1107082[/h]

CallsignAircraftDepartureDeparture TimeArrivalArrival TimeTotal TimeLink
4U9525A320 LEBL 13:28 24/03/2015 EDDL - 1 hour, 21 minutesView Flight
BTI33DH8D UKBB 13:42 18/03/2015 ENVA - 1 hour, 4 minutes
View Flight






I have no idea if it is true or fake but it seems a legitimate site
Reply 83
Avatar for Noble.
Noble.
17
Original post by InnerTemple
There is usually a way of gaining access through the door - via a code entered into a keypad.

This then triggers an alarm on the flight deck which allows the flight crew to "deadlock" the door if they fear something is amiss.

That's is true on Boeing aircraft and I don't see why airbus would not have a similar mechanism.

Posted from TSR Mobile



Original post by joey11223
Tbh I was thinking this, you surely don't want a one way lockable door in case you do get a suicidal pilot, or passenger gets in etc. So if it turns out the co-pilot was able to lock the pilot out....that'll be a serious issue.


On the A32X it works in essentially the same way as it does on (modern) Boeing aircraft. The door has three states, unlocked, normal/auto and deny. On normal/auto (the state it's left in by default) the door is locked and entry is by request, which is then approved by the flight-deck, usually by interphone (although video is also used). The issue with this state is there is an override code usually known by the purser (for emergency use, such as the incapacitation of both pilots) and the way this works is, once the emergency code is punched in, an alarm sounds for 30 seconds and unless the pilots directly deny request to entry by switching the door to lock, the door will open. The problem with this is, if the pilots have their hands full and know there's someone trying to gain entry to the flight deck, they don't have the time to continue denying the request for 30 seconds, which is the point in the lock state. Generally if there's any deviation from the standard entry procedure (via interphone or requesting access from the panel) such as someone knocking on the flight deck door, the standard procedure would be to switch the door into the lock state, that way even with the emergency codes someone can't access the flight deck. However, the 'lock' state on the door is not permanent (the switch is designed so that it doesn't stay in the 'lock' gate, the switch then goes back into normal/auto and the door only remains locked for 5 minutes). The point of this is to obviously avoid the door being completely inaccessible and someone being incapacitated inside the flight deck, unable to unlock the door.

Given that they've already had an initial listen to the CVR and determined the pilot locked out tried breaking in, they'll actually know a little already about what the pilot left in the flight deck was doing. The pilot locked outside knew he wouldn't be able to get in by kicking the door, those doors are ridiculously secure with three locks. It's very likely he tried getting in via the emergency code, and given that he didn't get in, either the pilot inside the flight deck kept the door position in lock (or was re-engaging the lock every few minutes) or he was actively barring the other pilot's entry during the 30 second alarm that goes off upon entry of the emergency entry code. Unless the pilot locked out only attempted to re-enter up to 5 minutes before the crash, the fact is someone must've kept him locked out (because the locked door state is only active for 5 minutes) or there was a serious door malfunction and the other pilot was incapacitated - which isn't very likely.
Was it the co-pilot locked in the cockpit, or the pilot?

This seems quite fishy if what has been said about a key pad allowing entry into the cockpit from the outside...

When I first read the BBC article I thought it might be suicide, but the fact that the plane descend "gently" suggests otherwise.

It could be that the pilot or co-pilot (whoever was locked in the cockpit) suffered a cardiac arrest, or passed out by some manner.

There are a lot of theories.
Reply 85
Avatar for Noble.
Noble.
17
Original post by Dodgypirate
Was it the co-pilot locked in the cockpit, or the pilot?

This seems quite fishy if what has been said about a key pad allowing entry into the cockpit from the outside...

When I first read the BBC article I thought it might be suicide, but the fact that the plane descend "gently" suggests otherwise.

It could be that the pilot or co-pilot (whoever was locked in the cockpit) suffered a cardiac arrest, or passed out by some manner.

There are a lot of theories.


Does it matter whether it was the first officer or captain locked outside?

How do you mean 'fishy'?

Read my post, even if a pilot was incapacitated the other pilot or the purser would, at most, only have to wait 5 minutes before being able to gain access.
Original post by Noble.
Does it matter whether it was the first officer or captain locked outside?

How do you mean 'fishy'?

Read my post, even if a pilot was incapacitated the other pilot or the purser would, at most, only have to wait 5 minutes before being able to gain access.


Euh don't get all hostile on my ass you plum, I'm only asking for details ...

I need not continue this "conversation" any further.
Reply 87
Avatar for Noble.
Noble.
17
Original post by Dodgypirate
Euh don't get all hostile on my ass you plum, I'm only asking for details ...

I need not continue this "conversation" any further.


I wasn't trying to get hostile, I was just interested to know why you thought it was relevant - it isn't really.
Original post by Noble.
I wasn't trying to get hostile, I was just interested to know why you thought it was relevant - it isn't really.


Don't you get it? I'm asking because I'd like to know the details ..
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by binarythoughts
Wish I didn't stumble upon this thread 2 days before flying




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Don't worry.Flying is is the most safe form of transport😃.You are are way more likely to be killed in a motorway accident than a aviation incident.You'll be alright 😃😎.
Original post by Kadak
Posted from TSR Mobile
Don't worry.Flying is is the most safe form of transport😃.You are are way more likely to be killed in a motorway accident than a aviation incident.You'll be alright 😃😎.



Emirates makes me feel safe ☺️
I actually love flying 🌍


Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by Shabalala
I am gonna guess at Computer/Sensor Failure


Unless the co-pilot was having a kip in the cockpit, I doubt it.
Original post by Noble.
On the A32X it works in essentially the same way as it does on (modern) Boeing aircraft.


Yes. Here's a video - complete with bad acting...



Posted from TSR Mobile
Reply 93
Avatar for Noble.
Noble.
17
Original post by InnerTemple
Yes. Here's a video - complete with bad acting...



Posted from TSR Mobile


It wasn't that bad. I thought their interpretation of being incapacitated was fairly spot on.
How the hell can Officials rule out foul-play so early in the investigation?? They only just got their hands on the black box! :confused::confused:


This has raised my eyebrows:

Compare this crash to that of the Pentagon on 9/11, notice any differences?? There is rubble found on the mountain face ... blackened soil from the explosion and bits of plane fuselage. There was NOTHING found beside the Pentagon.
(edited 9 years ago)
The info on the door makes for very interesting reading. The evidence points towards an intentional barring. There are only two other remotely plausible scenarios that I can think of which would all require an unlikely coincidence of several unfortunate events:

1) The pilot outside the cockpit forgot the emergency code and the CSM didn't know it either and the remaining pilot was incapacitated and the pilot outside the cockpit tried to enter within five minutes of impact

2) There was a serious door malfunction and the pilot inside the cockpit was incapacitated

So yeah, the pilot outside was quite possibly barred.
Reply 96
Avatar for Aj12
Aj12
18
Original post by Dodgypirate
How the hell can Officials rule out foul-play so early in the investigation?? They only just got their hands on the black box! :confused::confused:


This has raised my eyebrows:

Compare this crash to that of the Pentagon on 9/11, notice any differences?? There is rubble found on the mountain face ... blackened soil from the explosion and bits of plane fuselage. There was NOTHING found beside the Pentagon.


It is incredibly easy to tell whether a bomb brought down a plane. It is usually one of the very first things to be ruled out. Debris patterns ect all usually give very good indications of whether a bomb was used or not. They know, for example that the plane did not break up in the air but was destroyed through the impact.
Original post by Aj12
It is incredibly easy to tell whether a bomb brought down a plane. It is usually one of the very first things to be ruled out. Debris patterns ect all usually give very good indications of whether a bomb was used or not. They know, for example that the plane did not break up in the air but was destroyed through the impact.



You're rulling out terrorism because there was no bomb? :biggrin: ...
Original post by Dodgypirate
How the hell can Officials rule out foul-play so early in the investigation?? They only just got their hands on the black box! :confused::confused:


This has raised my eyebrows:

Compare this crash to that of the Pentagon on 9/11, notice any differences?? There is rubble found on the mountain face ... blackened soil from the explosion and bits of plane fuselage. There was NOTHING found beside the Pentagon.


I've just stopped laughing long enough to write a reply and tell you your comments made my day.

Everyone knows David Icke planned it and the Reptilians are to blame.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by uberteknik
I've just stopped laughing long enough to write a reply and tell you your comments made my day.

Everyone knows David Icke planned it.



Laugh all you want, without any plausible information I can speculate all I want :smile:

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