Feeling a bit down at being a 21yo guy that's never been on a date

I don't know how to help. But maybe this would make you feel better, I HAVE THE SAME PROBLEM!!! I'm also 21 i'll be working on my masters then PhD starting next year. Never even kissed a girl. You are not alone and I think we should just wait for the cute, kind, sweet girl who doesn’t have major personality issues Cheers

Nah, flirting and getting to know someone aren't at all mutually exclusive. You'll get the hang of it if you practise.

"The best things happen unexpectedly." The more you seek it, you are unlikely to find it. Just let the thought of finding "THE girl" go or else, you might just be disappointed.

I never liked this kind of advice.

It seems counter intuitive - in what area of life does effort reduce your returns? I can think of none. There is of course situations where people do the same thing they always do and expect a different outcome, this is a problem - and some people say it's the definition of insanity.

If you're not attracting many people who are interested in a relationship with you then you do need to change. Change facilitates change.

"Just be yourself" is only good advice if you're a woman of at least average attractiveness (and can therefore sit back and wait for male attention) or if you're a guy and you're already extremely attractive, or if you're a guy and you're happy with the results you get even if they're sub-par objectively.

If you're an unattractive guy, or a guy with a personality type that reduces your chances to approach women successfully(perhaps you're shy, or have anxiety etc), maybe you're both of these things, then "just being yourself" is a recipe for being alone, dateless and a virgin. At the very least this approach will downgrade the quality of women you do get: so there is still reason for action even if you do get women.

I dont know why did you even bother explaining all of these when my simple advise was to just go with the flow. He looks like he is struggling with his thoughts of not getting any dates or "tryna find THE GIRL" which is possibly stopping him from approaching other potential girls? Therefore my suggestion was just to leave the narrowed idea of finding the "perfect girl". I am not saying him to completely stop trying but he could start trying without expecting less than what he wants.
As for your idea about attractive and unattractive people, i don't know. These things are subjective and people tend to grow on us so we cant really categorize people that way. I believe in the end of the day, just being themselves is always the answer. Changing for yourself is a essential but changing for others could only be a short-lived happiness.

I think his problem is that he is not getting any dates, not his thoughts. It doesn't make sense that the reason he can't approach any girls is because he doesn't have a girlfriend. Perhaps thinking about it too much might give him anxiety, but he didn't mention any mental hangups so it's best not to assume.

For sure if he's unattractive, which it seems based on the results he's getting with women, then he must lower his expectations if he doesn't want to improve himself.

Believe it or not most people actually agree on what is attractive and what is not attractive. Beauty and attraction are not as subjective as you think. Which makes sense: we are afterall of the same species, with practically the same DNA, eye and brain construction, and we even form societies that have homogeneous cultures and beauty ideals. It certainly doesn't take long in our society (I assume you're a Westerner) to know what the beauty ideals are.

EG if you took the 19year old version of Megan Fox (before she got plastic surgery/old) and you asked 100-million men if they found her attractive how many of those men would you think would say no? I would bet very, very few. In fact I'd be surprised if more than a handful out of the 100-million men said they didn't find her attractive. How could that be if beauty was subjective?

Now of course "being yourself" is not going to cause any harm if you're one of those lucky people who fit into the image of what society finds attractive, even if not to a perfect degree. But if you don't fit into this image you're going to face allot of discrimination, including but not limited to dating.

I can only see you complicating this. It is just that simple. I am just tryna say to lower his expectation and not be driven by his mind that he has to find "the girl". It is probably the reason as to why he cannot look through some potential girl that is confining him from approaching them or even trying. And i'm tryna suggest to be himself because on the verge of trying to change for the world or for the sake of getting a girl, it could just make him someone he didnt even like. I guess just being a little happier about himself would help a lot.

Wouldn't a better solution be to find out what is making him unattractive and fix these issues?

If he's fat, then lose weight.
If he's too skinny then gain muscle.
If he's poor than get a better job.
If his skin is blotchy or riddled with acne go to a dermatologist.
If he doesn't have a good fashion sense, then develop one

ETC ETC

This forum seems to have an aversion to change and improvement. Instead it thinks that internal realities matter more than what other people think of you. Well in reality our identities and ranking in society are decided by what other people think of you: or culture in other words.

Yes because there's a limited amount of resources around we have to decide who gets what. Ranking/leagues/classes do exist. They exist in dating to a high degree.

All OP has to do if he wants to attract women is turn on the TV or go outside and copy the attractive men, as much as that is possible.

If you want chavs, turn on Geordie Shore and emulate Gaz Beadle.
Or copy Spencer Mathews.

Women and relationships are actually really easy understand, because they're simply extensions of our culture. Everyone likes to think they're unique and discrete from culture, but they're not. Most people are boring clones with similar tastes in everything from music to women/men/whatever, despite what they might think.

Be good looking, be rich, be powerful, hold social status, be aggressive and masculine - be these things as much as possible and the women will come. Don't be these things and you will pay a price, how much so will depend on how much you deviate from cultural norms.

Before you even suggest others, how about you work on yourself? You seem insightful and all but the idea isn't very helpful at all. Too much shallowness and i dont know probably some suppressed hatred towards women or just mere anger? You talk about status and appearance and acceptance in the society but that isn't always enough for a person to actually live! Whatever you are suggesting is right but that is only 100% applicable if you gotta survive. I believe if a girl and himself can accept him for him, then there is no need of any significant changes. You are probably unsatisfied by how women flocks around men with status and power and stuffs which is kinda true but not completely true. Don't go about generalizing every women into that, you might probably see why he doesn't have to literally change.

Before you even suggest others, how about you work on yourself? You seem insightful and all but the idea isn't very helpful at all. Too much shallowness and i dont know probably some suppressed hatred towards women or just mere anger? You talk about status and appearance and acceptance in the society but that isn't always enough for a person to actually live! Whatever you are suggesting is right but that is only 100% applicable if you gotta survive. I believe if a girl and himself can accept him for him, then there is no need of any significant changes. You are probably unsatisfied by how women flocks around men with status and power and stuffs which is kinda true but not completely true. Don't go about generalizing every women into that, you might probably see why he doesn't have to literally change.

Why would I need to work on myself? I never said anything about my own situation and whatever my life is like that is an irrelevant point. Though if you must ask I am happy with my life.

I did not try and suggest I was not shallow: I am shallow, but as a male and a human I don't think this is a negative or something to be ashamed of. You can discern allot of things just from someone's appearance, including their health, DNA quality, intentions, friendliness, social status, intelligence, wealth etc. Judging someone based on looks is a very effective way of sifting through potential partners. Everyone does it.

I think what I am saying is applicable to all people. Since when was being accepted, attractive and being thought of as valuable in the society you're living in ever a negotiable?

Yes you're right: someone who can truly accept themselves for who they are is probably in no need of changing themselves, but probably this person is someone considered successful by society. This person also has no need to do anything really with their life: they don't need to go to school, or get a job, or go to university. This person could simply stay idle in their parent's basement while getting fat on McDonald's and have the same level of contentment. But you're not one of those people are you? There's nothing stopping you from dropping out of society, after all it's allot of work going to uni and all. Why bother if you can love yourself anyway? Set an example

I don't know of ANY broke, overweight, unemployed people who are content with themselves. Yet the only force that says you need to be thin, wealthy and employed is society - which goes to show you the power society has in shaping our views, values and ideals. Including OP's, yours and mine. Is it possible to love yourself despite what society says? It is. But it's not very probable. I would not even bother trying.

Generalizations are very useful for understanding the world. In fact our perception of the world is based nearly entirely on generalizations: they keep you safe, they help you in social situations (and sometimes not!), they give you a sense of identity etc. In fact in a world as complex as ours it's the only way to navigate it effectively.

For sure we shouldn't base our impressions of women on one or two examples but I think once you get enough experience in the world you would have a large enough sample space to determine just how women work.

And no I don't hate women. I don't know how you got that impression. If If was aghast at materialistic, shallow people I'd hate myself wound't I?

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You do justify yourself and your point of view which is fine but your argument is still weak. I told you to woek on yourself because you seem to be blinded by shallowness and the work of society. Everyone is shallow to some extent but you are being too submissive to the thoughts of society and not our inner self. Your argument is applicable but like i told, just for survival! To survive and to live, there is a difference. A person can accept himself no matter the circumstances is but you dont seem to understand that because your mind is narrowed down to society and other people's opinion. I can agree to you on some degree but i think emotional, mental acceptance is more important than social acceptance because at least they are happy.

I don't know who you are but I assume given you're a student that you're going through the same steps that millions of others are going through.

You want a career I suppose? A car. Maybe a husband and children at some stage. You're typical, not special. Your life has been shaped by society, there's no need for you to want those things.
Women didn't have careers 100 years ago - they were still happy. Why do you want a career? Society of course.
Why are you at uni at this particular age? I assume you are in your early 20s or late teens. Why did you finish high school when you were 18 (or 17?)
Why are you going to enter the workforce when you graduate? And why at 21 (assuming you started uni aged 18 and you're not going to travel after you graduate)?

Your life is COMPLETELY molded by society, as mine is. Your fate, your values, your ideals, your wants, your dreams: everything was decided by society. You're basically a clone with an implanted code that controls your behavior.

I don't think you can have mental acceptance without societal acceptance. We are not that autonomous.

Even if we wanted to think a different way by the time we're aware of how society molds us it's too late as our the neural connections in our brain are already formed. You don't get to decide who you are.

I write this post as an average guy who somehow managed to overcome a lack of confidence and self esteem, not a lothario who holds the secret key to seducing women.

Oh dear, you have complicated this so much i dont even know what are we actually talking about. My point was clear that just be yourself and try embracing and start loving it!
No matter how much you try to explain, i will always say your argument is weak. I never told him to detach himself from society or their norms because that isnt possible but to change just to please the society is what i do not support. We are molded by the society, i agree but we aren't clones. We probably don't make any significant difference to the world but that doesn't mean we cannot accept ourselves as someone special. I do not like the way you view the world cause you are too practical. After all, in the end its about loving and accepting ourselves that can further motivate us to work on whatever is lacking that could be physical or emotional.

I've never met anyone in my whole life who I thought was unique enough that I was impressed.

Nearly everyone fits within what you'd call normal diversity in a population. Some are tall, some a short, some are pretty, some are not. But nearly no one diverges from the norm to a degree that is special enough to be considered noteworthy.

Life is a sea of forgettable people and faces, and I've been to good universities and spent time in professional environments with so-called talented people.

I mean do you recall the names of people you knew from 10 years ago, say perhaps at school? Maybe you remember a few mainstays of your life back then, perhaps the teacher's name and your best friend's name, but that's it. At least for me. Seas of people I've met now just vague or nonexistent memories my brain doesn't care enough about to remember.

You have to open a history book to find people who are worth learning about. They are what 1 in a million? That's the kind of rarity you need to find people who can truly say they are special. Everybody else should know their place in the world and stop acting under this pretense of being special.

Lyman you said you overcome your lack of confidence and low self esteem. What results did this bring you? You also said you are not a loathrio- so I assume this means despite having a healthy self esteem and sense of confidence, you're still not achieving anything remarkable with women. If this is true, would you say that your life is an example OP should emulate, despite the parallels you pointed out between your life and OP's?