I'm in mid 20s, did arts degree became a teacher, don't like it, what else can I do?

Once I graduated I realized that pursuing Law is much too expensive even if I saved a lot of my wages. The odds of getting pupillage didn't look great either and Law firms take A-Levels into account and mine, although they got me into an RG uni, weren't competitive enough and neither was my uni name (i.e it wasn't Oxbridge/Imperial etc). I think if someone really wants to do PG Law they either need a rich family and connections OR they need top standard grades (AAA or A*A*A*) and a top ten uni plus money from somewhere.

if you're looking for a 'permanent job' in anything other than teaching, with a Philosophy degree (and most other Arts degrees) you're going to be bitterly disappointed.

I should have done a first degree that gave me a hard skill. A hard skill is one where you'd still be employed for it even if people dislike you solely on account of the qualification.

Despite hating almost every second of PGCE and vowing never to teach full time, i scrape a living off supply teaching because i have a piece of paper that says I'm Qualified.

It wasn't my fault at uni that I didn't do all the things to get onto a graduate scheme. I tried to do the sort of employable things early on in my first year like joining a student society called AIESEC as I was studying Economics at the time. I just became too depressed at uni 6 months after and withdrew from the world. I got a job as a charity fundraiser and was promptly fired for being 6x as bad at closing a sale as the next worst person. So my PT jobs after that were to be seen and not heard, or not to be seen at all, easy when you work in a ****ty restaurant.

No what you should have done is studied and pursued your strongest interests both at the time and for a future career. No degree subject will guarantee a job - it takes a lot of effort and research and determination to get on a graduate scheme and they are three requirements that the average, 2.1 student will not meet, i.e. around 90% of students. A lot of students seem to believe that because they worked hard in a minimum wage part-time job at university and got their 2.1 that they now deserve a lucrative graduate job. It doesn't work like that. If you want to be working for a top firm then you have to go above and beyond compared to other students and to do that you need to be proactive early on and go to any length required.

It sounds to me like you don't really know what to do in life - and that's fair enough - but your employment situation has nothing to do with your degree subject and everything to do with this fact.

No degree subject will guarantee a job - .

No what you should have done is studied and pursued your strongest interests both at the time and for a future career. No degree subject will guarantee a job - it takes a lot of effort and research and determination to get on a graduate scheme and they are three requirements that the average, 2.1 student will not meet, i.e. around 90% of students. A lot of students seem to believe that because they worked hard in a minimum wage part-time job at university and got their 2.1 that they now deserve a lucrative graduate job. It doesn't work like that. If you want to be working for a top firm then you have to go above and beyond compared to other students and to do that you need to be proactive early on and go to any length required.

It sounds to me like you don't really know what to do in life - and that's fair enough - but your employment situation has nothing to do with your degree subject and everything to do with this fact.

Medicine

Engineering

you have no idea about the circumstances in my life when I was 18 - do not tell me what I 'should have' done. .

well it does have something to do with degree. i am employed as a supply teacher because I did a PGCE. no such straightward option for a Philosophy degree. You don't even have to apply for a job as a supply teacher, you just sign up and wait for work by the phone.

i've only done 3 job interviews in my life and failed them all. "overqualified" for Greggs, failed Teach First assessment day for poor soft skills and failed a British Council teaching assistant abroad for honesty (justifying my top choice over runner up on account of pay).

I'm not really sure how to get a job where you're not offered work or get paid for things cash in hand. I'm trying to start a business, but informally if you know what I mean (it's not Breaking Bad, I don't do that ****)

Read my posts properly, don't talk to me as if I don't know those things already - I'm not ****ing stupid.

Regarding the first part - you have no idea about the circumstances in my life when I was 18 - do not tell me what I 'should have' done. Regardless of what I write on here, I have no regrets about what I did. Walk a mile in my shoes etc.

Regarding your last part - you're wrong.

It doesn't cost you anything. Your firm pays for your qualification which is one extra year if you're a LLB graduate and two extra years if you're a non-Law graduate. You then start your contract once qualified. I appreciate you have given your own personal reasons for not pursing law and they make complete sense but it's therefore completely wrong and very dangerous to be advising people not to study philosophy based only on your own experience which won't be comparable to theirs.

That is not true at all. Your degree subject plays a tiny part in your job application, it's not even close to the importance you are placing on it. As a PPE graduate, I have friends in a variety of arts fields and I know BA Philosophy and BA Politics graduates at Clifford Chance, Bond Dickinson, PwC, S&W and Accenture. They would simply laugh at that comment.

Experience, soft skills, networking, research/knowledge, determination, and intelligence are important, not what modules you studied at university which will never be used again once your firm specifically trains and qualifies you for their field.

From what you've said in this thread, it sounds to me like you never had a specific career plan and didn't know what you wanted to do until later on (same as me). That doesn't mean it's the fault of philosophy - if you had studied economics or law or maths you still wouldn't be a physiotherapist.

You are pursing a scientific career and disregarding philosophy as useless for permanent jobs outside of teaching, which makes no sense.

The reason philosophy and the arts are useless for you is because you want to go into the health profession!

Of course it's of no use. That's like someone blaming their background in basketball as the reason why they aren't a professional football player and then advising everyone that basketball is useless if you want to be a professional sportsperson.

That you rushed to uni to study a crap degree ? Thats your fualt. You are paying now.


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You do realise you've quoted a post that had nothing to do with you, right? That was a reply for thisistheend.

Assuming person X is at a firm in the first place.

If I don't advise people based on my experience, what do you suggest I base it on? That's the whole reason I responded to this thread - my experience (and many other graduates). Also, if you read properly, you'll see that I say multiple time that people can take or leave what I say - it really makes no difference whatsoever to my life. I don't proclaim what I write to be gospel - it's my experience and I'm putting it out there so people can make their own judgment. I'm saying it so that people consider their degree carefully. If no one like me ever spoke about this reality, how would anyone ever know? I'm not going to sit there and ignore threads/posts relating to this issue just because there's another side of the coin - other people can fill that gap and write about how they have such a wonderful graduate job after studying Philosophy (haven't seen that thread yet). But this is my truth and I won't keep quiet just to please pedants like you because I personally think people should be aware of the other side.

I'm sure they would laugh. PPE...so you went to Oxbridge or a top 10, then? And your mates would laugh that other grads from the humanities Arts can't find work? Doesn't surprise me at all.

Did you start your degree when you were 18? Because not a single 18 year old at my comprehensive school would have had a clue what PPE meant other than 'Personal Protective Equipment'.

Why are you saying this to me as if I'm unaware?

Read the thread. I have nothing against Philosophy. We're talking about degrees courses, not subjects.

And of course I wouldn't be a Physiotherapist by taking a Maths degree - again, I'd appreciate it if you didn't assume I had a single digit IQ quotient.
Do you think I applied to Philosophy as an 18 year old thinking, ''can't wait till' I graduate and start my job as a Physiotherapist!''. I've come to that career choice SINCE.

Wrong, wrong, wrong. I've chosen an NHS career after 3 YEARS of getting NOWHERE with a Philsoophy degree. Read. The. Thread.

You think you are intelligent with your analogies, but you are idiotic because you have no idea about my life or WHY I chose a Philosophy degree and why I've now chosen an NHS career.

I would usually reply more formally and in more detail but I've had enough of clueless idiots like you misinterpreting what I say, not reading properly and filling in your gaps between I've said.

You're still a judgemental prick regardless of who you aimed that at.

I have said nothing unfair or judgemental and certainly have not acted as deserving the title "prick", though your insistence on verbal attacks is very telling of your character. I made a fair analysis of the OP which he did not disagree with - it's very obvious he doesn't know what he wants from life career-wise (clue's in the thread title!) and stating this doesn't make me a "judgemental prick". I was simply drawing his attention to the fact that his not knowing which career path to choose is the reason for his current situation, not philosophy, and this is the same reason for your situation also.

In response to this bold part in particular and in response to your previous post:

You know what is telling of my character? Putting up with people like you for the past 3 years. You have no idea what I've experienced. You have no idea what work experience I have completed during university or since yet you insinuated that I didn't do any. You have no idea of my personal circumstances, before, during and after university. You have no idea my reasons for my first degree choice and you have no idea for the reasons behind my second degree choice yet you write as though I made the wrong choices when in fact they were the best choices I could have made in those circumstances.

What is telling of my character is that for the past 3 years I've managed to remain calm, civil and polite to people who felt the need to tell me who I am and what choices I should have made when they have no idea what I've experienced and been through during the past 6 years.

What is telling of my character is the fact that I'm even entertaining this discussion with you when you have no idea what I've gone through and you'll likely never (fortunately) have to experience it for yourself. What's telling of my character is that I've kept on trying and that I've never given up. What's telling of my character is that I posted on here to warn other students to carefully consider their degree choice and to take heed of the stories of graduates like me. You were the straw that broke the camel's back concerning my ability to continue to be patient, calm and polite when responding to people's comments about my life. Do you know why? Because I've heard it all before in various guises for 3 whole years whilst I've been working tirelessly to progress. You only know that I did a Philosophy degree, didn't get a grad job and am now pursuing an NHS career. What you do not know is any of the circumstances surrounding any of my decisions. Everything looks so easy to criticize on paper, but real lives are not as simple as black and white.

What's telling of my character is that I don't want other young people to go through the horrendous stomach dropping experience of sitting in a job center being told they'll have to take 'any work' and ending up doing manual labour on a zero hour contract which works out as less than the minimum wage by the end of the month and they can't support themselves anymore.

You assume that I had no 'drive' and no plan during/after my degree. You could not be more wrong. You seem to base your whole judgement of my and my situation around the idea that I had no clue what I was doing. No. I had particular ambitions and I had work experience in my fields of interest. I know it's easy, as I've said in a previous post to say ''it's your fault'', but I refute that accusation. I did everything I could and it didn't work for me. Statistically, this happens. You don't know me, my life, the reasons for my choices and you certainly don't know my character.

My situation is not my 'fault' and that's precisely why I posted on here to warn others because I was and am a very hardworking individual, with a good academic record and with work experience.

If you'd experienced what I've experienced and someone like you said what you've said to me, I think 'prick' is probably one of the nicest things you could think of them. You have no idea and I do not expect you have an ounce of understanding because until you've been through what I have you won't come close to understanding how I feel and you won't understand why I feel so strongly about educating people to be very careful about what degree they choose.

You've missed the point.

You want to do physiotherapy now, hence I know that you didn't know what you wanted to do as a student

hence I know you were not focused and determined on a career, hence I know why you didn't get a graduate job. It's an inference and a correct one.

Why do you keep thinking I'm belittling you? You sound extremely defensive as if I'm being offensive when all I have done is said what you already know but won't admit - that you had no focused career aspirations at university and that is the reason for your lack of graduate employment, not philosophy.

You are being offensive to philosophy students worldwide by stating that they have no hope outside of teaching.

I find statements like that horrendous, especially when they are based on an experience of someone who did not know what they wanted to do in life and are now blaming it on the arts. A quick look at your thread history confirms your lack of career focus.

And the same can be said for all those thousands of arts students who you are indirectly insulting. You have no idea what they have experienced and been through and how many doors are open to them if they want them to be.

If you have "gone through" more than me I will be astounded. If you're trying to play the "I've been through harder times" card then, please, you're talking to the wrong person. I have balls the size of space hoppers to achieve what I have and the biggest difference between me and people like you is that I openly criticise myself and why I am in a situation - I don't blame it on something as inconsequential as my degree subject when there are hundreds of top graduate employers with no entry requirements bar a 2.1 in any subject! It's not easy to find your passion in life, but that's why you're in this situation, leave the arts out of it.

So encourage them to be proactive at university: attend insights, apply for Spring/Summer internships, research their career of choice throughout the 3 years of university, get a 1st class, strive for positions of responsibility, go to any length required to get a graduate job offer. Don't tell them that the arts is useless for a permanent job because it's factually wrong.

You didn't do enough during your degree.

You can say what you like, it's clear from your constant changing of career choices and your decision to now enter a field which is the exact opposite of philosophy that you were unfocused and did not stand out in the eyes of graduate employers.

The competition is fierce and those who dabble in different areas won't make it. You did not do everything you could; don't you see that you're lying to yourself?

Having a good work ethic, a part-time job at university and a 2.1 means nothing. You're sub-par with that application to graduate employers.

You do not know that. I was a student 3 years ago. This is what you're hinging your whole argument on and since you're wrong, you've got it all wrong. How on earth can you possibily 'know' what I did or did not want to do as a student. The only person who knows that with certainty is me. You are wrong. I've said that to you and you've ignored it so that you can plough on with your incorrect theory about who I am

Why am I being defensive? Because you're attacking me and telling I wasn't 'focused or determined'. That is wrong and a complete misrepresentation of my character. Not only that, but you're not willing to accept what I tell you about myself (which I know more about than you) and you're hell bent on making me 'admit' to something which is completely untrue. You'd make a good lawyer, but just a reminder - I'm not on trial here.

I'm sure if they're confident in their employment prospects, some graduate on TSR won't bother them too much. Why is it bothering you so much?

So your basing my inner thoughts regarding my life based on threads I've created here on TSR? Let me guess what you've unearthed....Law, Medicine, Nursing, Physio?
I've researched all of them as possible career paths because I couldn't get anywhere with Philosophy. You're talking is if I've been passionate about a million different things, that's not the case. The reality is that because Philosophy doesn't up up doors I've looked down other avenues rather than just accepting there's nothing I can do.

I've pointed out in another post that different people have different reasons for doing an arts degree and I agree with some of those reasons, I disagree with others but it's their life and frankly, it makes no difference to me what they do so they can take or leave what I say. But I have a right to have that opinion regardless of whether it offends people. I'm not going to keep quiet just because someone finds what I say 'insulting'.

No, achieved what I achieved despite my circumstances. You want to tell me I have no drive, no ambition, no focus, no work ethic - it doesn't matter how many times you say it to me, I will tell you that you're wrong.

And if they do all of that and it doesn't work? Tell them what? That is their fault? Because that's what you're telling me.

I don't remember posting my CV on this thread. How do you know that? You don't, you're making things up to suit your argument.

It was never a case of constantly changing career. It was a case of looking for opportunities that my degree wasn't offering.

I stand by what I've said about arts degrees. I truly believe that in the current economy most students are better off doing a vocational degree. You only have to read the news and look at the stats to see vocational grads have better employment statistics.

Of course vocational degrees lead to better employment prospects - that is self-evident by its own definition.

Hallelujah.