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The Arsenal Thread XXII

From Carragher, King, Terry, Ferdinand, Woodgate and an ageing Campbell to this shower of ****. Great times.

Sol was still a beast in 2006 tbh, was leader of that AFC defence that went about 1000000 minutes of k/o CL football without conceding, including long spells with Flamini, Clichy, Almunia, Eboue and Senderos as his 'partners' :smile:

Dont think AFC should have let Sol, or indeed Pires, Bergkamp, Ljungberg, Cole, Henry all leave at the same time. Suspect Arsenal still feel the ripple effects of that clear out of leaders to this day really. Arsene had to try and get some youth project going with the new stadium but he should have integrated the old with the new. Sol would have been handy until 2009ish, better than Gallas as a personality anyway FFS

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 5961

al_94

14

I agree with this article Danny Welbeck has NOT been a great signing for Arsenal

http://metro.co.uk/2015/03/30/why-manchester-united-reject-danny-welbeck-has-not-been-a-great-signing-for-arsenal-5126256/

Reply 5962

leinad2012

15

Original post by Zürich

disclaimer: I have a loathing for wing backs that are caught out of position and overlap needlessly but imo...

Carl Jenkinson is a much better RB than Bellerin, it's really not even close tbh.

Debuchy was a poor transfer for what we parted with, even though he's up to standard for now, but given his contrasting style with Jenkinson(whereas Bellerin is just a **** version of Debuchy) I think we'd be mad not to take Carl back as 2nd choice next season and send Bellerin on loan somewhere.

I promise you will get big match performances and intensity out of a lad like Jenko that will be worth perhaps an occasional clumsiness on the ball and every challenging team needs English defenders imo. Alternatively given his age and Englishness we should be taking £12m at least from WHU when you think about what we paid for Chambers or what Shaw, Bertrand etc have gone for.

Completely agree, but I'd go as far as saying if Debuchy doesn't get back to strength before the end of the season and Jenk plays well in U'21's Euro's in the summer, that we should have the same situation at RB as we do with Gibbs and Monreal at LB where is isn't a specific no. 1 and no. 2 over the season. Jenk may well be better than Debuchy in the near future.

Bellerin should go out on loan, he can't be used at CB like Chambers can and isn't quite ready yet. Tbh the way Jenk has performed this year shows why Vengs is so good at creating top young players; hw knew Jenk was unlikely to get into the starting line up this season, and let the guy go and show what he's made of.

Even if WH offered £12mil I wouldn't take it, there aren't that many top RB's around, and having another home grown player wouldn't in a non-vital position wouldn't go a miss

Reply 5963

leinad2012

15

Welbeck has a conversion rate of 9%, compared to Giroud who has over 30%, I hate to so it, but based on this season Welbeck has been a piss poor signing who's only job is stopping better players like Walcott from getting in the squad. Would actually take £8mil from some **** team like Sunderland for him right now and just call it a write off

Reply 5964

Shahdog

2

Original post by leinad2012

Completely agree, but I'd go as far as saying if Debuchy doesn't get back to strength before the end of the season and Jenk plays well in U'21's Euro's in the summer, that we should have the same situation at RB as we do with Gibbs and Monreal at LB where is isn't a specific no. 1 and no. 2 over the season. Jenk may well be better than Debuchy in the near future.

Bellerin should go out on loan, he can't be used at CB like Chambers can and isn't quite ready yet. Tbh the way Jenk has performed this year shows why Vengs is so good at creating top young players; hw knew Jenk was unlikely to get into the starting line up this season, and let the guy go and show what he's made of.

Even if WH offered £12mil I wouldn't take it, there aren't that many top RB's around, and having another home grown player wouldn't in a non-vital position wouldn't go a miss

Regarding Monreal and Gibbs, who would you consider, overall is our current best LB?

Reply 5965

fallen_acorns

20

dont mind welbeck at all..

11 scored or created, in 30 apps for arsenal. (goals + assists)

For our 2nd choice striker.. 1 in 3, is not an awful goals scored+created ratio.

(As long as he is always 2nd choice... and as long as we get a proper winger so he is not put out wide very much.. except for certain circumstances)

Original post by fallen_acorns

dont mind welbeck at all..

11 scored or created, in 30 apps for arsenal. (goals + assists)

For our 2nd choice striker.. 1 in 3, is not an awful goals scored+created ratio.

(As long as he is always 2nd choice... and as long as we get a proper winger so he is not put out wide very much.. except for certain circumstances)

He's scored fewer Premier League goals than Fellaini.

Posted from TSR Mobile

Reply 5967

Arkasia

19

Anyone judging Welbeck purely by goals scored is missing the point with him (even though he still has a decent amount). He provides directness and pace in games where we would otherwise be stuck passing around in midfield, and he is a real presence on the pitch - more so than the Walnut, who puts them away more, but just sits on the corner of the penalty box for the rest of the time. People like to write off Welbeck because he has been around for such a long time, but he is still only 24 as well, so he has time to add finishing to his game, and then he will be incredible, because he has pretty much everything else.

Reply 5968

Depleted

3

Original post by Arkasia

Anyone judging Welbeck purely by goals scored is missing the point with him (even though he still has a decent amount). He provides directness and pace in games where we would otherwise be stuck passing around in midfield, and he is a real presence on the pitch - more so than the Walnut, who puts them away more, but just sits on the corner of the penalty box for the rest of the time. People like to write off Welbeck because he has been around for such a long time, but he is still only 24 as well, so he has time to add finishing to his game, and then he will be incredible, because he has pretty much everything else.

Not really because that's why we sold him and you paid £16m for him, not to mention all the hype at the start when he scored a hat-trick vs Gala. Guys a striker pure and simple, why not buy a winger with good work rate and link up if that's what you wanted.

Reply 5969

Arkasia

19

Original post by Depleted

Not really because that's why we sold him and you paid £16m for him, not to mention all the hype at the start when he scored a hat-trick vs Gala. Guys a striker pure and simple, why not buy a winger with good work rate and link up if that's what you wanted.

The hype was because he showed what he can do, he's hardly going to bang in hat-tricks every game. He isn't being played as a striker currently because Giroud's in one of the best forms of the league. For 16m I still think he was well worth it, and given his age, think he will be seen as a bargain in years to come. Danny will come good.

Original post by Arkasia

Anyone judging Welbeck purely by goals scored is missing the point with him (even though he still has a decent amount). He provides directness and pace in games where we would otherwise be stuck passing around in midfield, and he is a real presence on the pitch - more so than the Walnut, who puts them away more, but just sits on the corner of the penalty box for the rest of the time. People like to write off Welbeck because he has been around for such a long time, but he is still only 24 as well, so he has time to add finishing to his game, and then he will be incredible, because he has pretty much everything else.

Thats what our fans said for the past 6 years. I wouldn't hold your breath.

Posted from TSR Mobile

Reply 5971

Depleted

3

Original post by Arkasia

The hype was because he showed what he can do, he's hardly going to bang in hat-tricks every game. He isn't being played as a striker currently because Giroud's in one of the best forms of the league. For 16m I still think he was well worth it, and given his age, think he will be seen as a bargain in years to come. Danny will come good.

He won't come good, he's at his peak now and we've been saying that for years at OT. He's been operating at this level for the past 2-3 years, and it's not even a positional thing. Let's put it this way, guy got a whole season up for us in a team we either won the league in or came 2nd (can't remember which one, might've been Aguero year), and scored 2 goals in 24 games. He's lucky if he gets double figures in a season really. Good squad player though for the wing.

Reply 5972

al_94

14

Welbeck was a desperate signing everyone knows that. If Giroud never got injured Wenger had no intention of buying a striker. He is a striker and he can't compete with Giroud even as a winger he's playing mainly because of injuries but realistically he's a bench player at best.

Reply 5973

doobucks

16

Original post by Depleted

He won't come good, he's at his peak now and we've been saying that for years at OT. He's been operating at this level for the past 2-3 years, and it's not even a positional thing. Let's put it this way, guy got a whole season up for us in a team we either won the league in or came 2nd (can't remember which one, might've been Aguero year), and scored 2 goals in 24 games. He's lucky if he gets double figures in a season really. Good squad player though for the wing.

No you have your stats wrong.

1 goal in 27 games was 12/13, when Welbeck played majority on the wing and 14 of his appearances were from the bench. In 13/14 Welbeck got 9 goals in the league in 25 appearances, this happened to be the longest stint since 11/12(where he also got 9 goals in 27 appearances but was younger etc)

Anyway I see Welbeck being a 15 goal a season striker but not much more than that, needs to improve more sides to his game, needs to be more selfish and he needs to be better at striking the ball. Sturridge who people compared him too is more direct towards goal, not scared of making a long diagonal ball or that final pass and his movement is sublime as a stirker. Welbeck needs to emulate what Sturridge has done at Liverpool so far.

Most of it is down to Welbeck not being a good striker of the ball, most of his goals are finessed or poached than really hit with power, which obviously is fine if you are a consistent finisher, but that's not the case with Welbeck. He needs to change that style of his game. Also with his height and strength you'd expect him to be a better aerial player than he currently is.

Reply 5974

al_94

14

Original post by Depleted

He won't come good, he's at his peak now and we've been saying that for years at OT. He's been operating at this level for the past 2-3 years, and it's not even a positional thing. Let's put it this way, guy got a whole season up for us in a team we either won the league in or came 2nd (can't remember which one, might've been Aguero year), and scored 2 goals in 24 games. He's lucky if he gets double figures in a season really. Good squad player though for the wing.

Actually it was 2 goals in 40 in the 2012-2013 season.

Reply 5975

leinad2012

15

Original post by Shahdog

Regarding Monreal and Gibbs, who would you consider, overall is our current best LB?

In general they're pretty similar, but right now based on form I'd say Monreal. But I've supported the guy for a long time even when others have said he's **** so I'm probably a bit biased.

Reply 5976

leinad2012

15

Original post by Depleted

He won't come good, he's at his peak now and we've been saying that for years at OT. He's been operating at this level for the past 2-3 years, and it's not even a positional thing. Let's put it this way, guy got a whole season up for us in a team we either won the league in or came 2nd (can't remember which one, might've been Aguero year), and scored 2 goals in 24 games. He's lucky if he gets double figures in a season really. Good squad player though for the wing.

The guy is 24 he is by no means at his peak. But when you compare him as our second choice striker (and ****ing 1st choice RW) to City who have Jovetic (they play 2 up front and have 4 top strikers ffs) then he is simply not good enough. He has a high work rate but we won't be challenging for titles any time soon while we have players of his quality as our back-up.

The only thing I can see him doing is messing up Gabry's progress and forcing Wenger to play Ox at CDM