I'm in mid 20s, did arts degree became a teacher, don't like it, what else can I do?

Saying that philosophy is useless for employment outside of teaching is not equivalent to saying that vocational degrees offer higher employment statistics, nor is this the only factor of importance.

I'm not sure either of you understand the concept of ceteris paribus. This spat could have been settled quite a while ago if either of you uttered this magic phrase.

Saying that philosophy is useless for employment outside of teaching is not equivalent to saying that vocational degrees offer higher employment statistics, nor is this the only factor of importance.

You were attacking a subject - indeed the entire arts field - which I hold very dear

vocational degrees lead to better employment prospects - that is self-evident by its own definition.

My username should probably be a hint that I do and it doesn't apply. He has made wild unfounded claims about philosophy being useless for employment bar teaching and then tried to imply that all he has been claiming is how vocational degrees offer higher employment rates. They are two very different and independent claims and I have only argued against the former because it's factually wrong and a common excuse made by those who don't know what they want to do in life until later on - same reason why you're in a profession you don't want to be in.

The whole point of my reponses have been to inform people that they've generally got a better chance of employment after a vocational degree, I didn't post here for a discussion about my life. But you've gone off on a tangent and questioned my personal efforts to find graduate work just because you feel insulted that

Well, just because you hold it very dear doesn't mean you can legitimately defend it to the death when you know that it's a fact that....

The fact that you're willing to continue arguing with me after admitting that tells me this is more about your feelings than about facts.

She, actually.

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Irrelevant. If you care enough to correct people then include your gender symbol.

Saying that philosophy is useless for employment outside of teaching is not equivalent to saying that vocational degrees offer higher employment statistics, nor is this the only factor of importance.

You're just grasping at straws now and trying, again, to attack my character because you realize you're talking waffle. It's laughable. Admit you're wrong. I just quoted your own words to you and yet you still persist.

You can't base arguments on complete assumptions about people's lives and trying to dismantle people's characters. It's not worth talking to you since, despite your education, you don't seem to understand how ridiculous it is that you persist even when I've quoted your own agreement with what I'm saying in bold with a massive font. I may as well shout at a brick wall.

If I wanted to get a job after university, philosophy is one of the last things I'd study.

It might not have impacted you personally, but it has certainly impacted thousands of others, both those who did internships and those who did not. All of these graduate schemes you mention, there are only few places right? They can't take everyone. They probably go for those who did the most relevant degrees first before considering the others.

And from what I know about somethingbeautiful over the last 5 years, your conclusions are way, way off.

IIf I had a child that was 18, fresh out of college and was preparing to go to University, I'd do anything to deter them from studying degrees with very little career prospects. I'd rather give them the £30k+ to start their own enterprise rather than studying a degree which may yield very little prospects afterwards.

IIn this climate? STEM and vocational are the way to go. So many people I know who studied BA's, are struggling in retail. Some of them did internships too.

IEDIT: Also, Law - my best friend studied Law, did his LPC is it? and is in a random administrative position.

If I wanted to get a job after university, philosophy is one of the last things I'd study.

It might not have impacted you personally, but it has certainly impacted thousands of others, both those who did internships and those who did not. All of these graduate schemes you mention, there are only few places right? They can't take everyone. They probably go for those who did the most relevant degrees first before considering the others.

And from what I know about somethingbeautiful over the last 5 years, your conclusions are way, way off.

If I had a child that was 18, fresh out of college and was preparing to go to University, I'd do anything to deter them from studying degrees with very little career prospects. I'd rather give them the £30k+ to start their own enterprise rather than studying a degree which may yield very little prospects afterwards.

In this climate? STEM and vocational are the way to go. So many people I know who studied BA's, are struggling in retail. Some of them did internships too.

Not trying to scare anyone off either, and I might be biased since I decided to be a business owner/entrepreneur, however my peers really regret their decision to study degrees which hold little to no weight in our current employment and economic climate.

EDIT: Also, Law - my best friend studied Law, did his LPC is it? and is in a random administrative position.

And from what I know about somethingbeautiful over the last 5 years, your conclusions are way, way off.

That is so far from the truth. No, I was not selective.

If I wanted to get a job after university, philosophy is one of the last things I'd study.

It might not have impacted you personally, but it has certainly impacted thousands of others, both those who did internships and those who did not. All of these graduate schemes you mention, there are only few places right? They can't take everyone. They probably go for those who did the most relevant degrees first before considering the others.

And from what I know about somethingbeautiful over the last 5 years, your conclusions are way, way off.

If I had a child that was 18, fresh out of college and was preparing to go to University, I'd do anything to deter them from studying degrees with very little career prospects. I'd rather give them the £30k+ to start their own enterprise rather than studying a degree which may yield very little prospects afterwards.

In this climate? STEM and vocational are the way to go. So many people I know who studied BA's, are struggling in retail. Some of them did internships too.

Not trying to scare anyone off either, and I might be biased since I decided to be a business owner/entrepreneur, however my peers really regret their decision to study degrees which hold little to no weight in our current employment and economic climate.

EDIT: Also, Law - my best friend studied Law, did his LPC is it? and is in a random administrative position.

The problem with your advice is it goes against everything the average TSR user has been told which is that if they stay on the exam treadmill it will transport them to a high-paying graduate job. I believed it because my teachers told me so. I believed it because quangos like ‘Aim Higher’ (remember them?) told me so.

I know. That's why I'm telling you because that exactly how I feel and how my friends feel. We feel disillusioned and lied to because we're working for the minimum wage (or unemployed) after doing everything the 'right' way.

May I recommend consulting?

It will be very difficult for you to get a job from one of the big ones such as KPMG, going for a smaller company will be easier.

People in consultancy come from a variety of degrees, although your qualifications and degree will determine what you consult in. Although my dad is an IT consultant - he doesn't have a degree whatsoever, no MBA and no formal IT qualifications - yet he is one of the best IT consultants in the UK and the most senior consultant in the world for the software he consults on.

Alternatively, get some accountancy qualifications and become an accountant.

Both ideas are well paid, have good progression, opportunity for travel and job security.

I know. That's why I'm telling you because that exactly how I feel and how my friends feel. We feel disillusioned and lied to because we're working for the minimum wage (or unemployed) after doing everything the 'right' way.

I was a model pupil at at school - a prefect, a tutor for year 7/8 when I was in 6th form, I won end of year awards, I was in the orchestra, I helped run an morning music club. I went into the 6th form to take A-Levels and did well academically as well as playing for the first team of my local sports club, I completed placements in the NHS, I worked hard in my subjects.

Then I got into uni. I worked very hard again. I was a teaching assistant during the 2nd year of my degree, I had a P/T job in my 1st/2nd year and completed a placement at HMCS with an excellent commendation. I was part of 3 uni socs, a debating club (Philosophy!) and I did work for my university Library as well as helping to run a departmental event that took place in various locations throughout the city (art gallerys/cathedrals) and I did photography work for the publications regarding those events. I also attended seminars outside of my course and submitted papers for consideration as well as writing for the student paper.

As well as this I volunteered at the weekends (whilst working P/T in the evenings) in my first two years for a local charity (I'd already been volunteering with them 12 months prior to uni).

There are various other bits and bobs I did, those are the things that I remember. I didn't just turn up and scrape a 2.1 - I worked incredibly hard not only for my 2.1 but regarding all of the things I did outside of the lecture theaters and seminar rooms. I was a hardworking student and I graduated into the fallout of this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Recession

Employers weren't taking on, the number of grad jobs had reduced and even low-skilled work was incredibly hard to come by. Now things are starting to pick up so hopefully it won't be as bad in future but it's been 3 years for me and the grads who found themselves in the same circumstances in 11'/12'/13' so I'm not eligible for a lot of schemes anymore. It seems like your degree slowly loses value the longer you're not in grad work.

This is my experience. As I say, I'm not here to scare people or put people off. I'm saying that you should be aware of employablilty before you embark on 3 years of hard work and you should be aware that the above is a reality for many people.

Also, I just like to say - what I've learned about this reality I've experienced for the past 3 years goes against everything I've ever believed in and was taught by my teachers. I was told hard work = success. I worked hard. That is what stings. I don't want other people to experience what I have, that's why I'm talking about it....not so that rude people (not you who I'm quoting) can insult me and tell people I'm somehow lazy or was unprepared. I worked incredibly hard, I always have done.

My username should probably be a hint that I do and it doesn't apply. He has made wild unfounded claims about philosophy being useless for employment bar teaching and then tried to imply that all he has been claiming is how vocational degrees offer higher employment rates. They are two very different and independent claims and I have only argued against the former because it's factually wrong and a common excuse made by those who don't know what they want to do in life until later on - same reason why you're in a profession you don't want to be in.

Then I'm surprised how little it's worked out for you and how far you've fallen after graduation on the job-centre hamster wheel.

I did no extracurricular activities at university past the first 6 months as I basically had a break down after the first Christmas. I got my 2.1 very easily but wish I had spent more time and effort because Philosophy is a subject that I really did love. In April of my final year, I thought oh ****. I applied for a teaching course by end of June and was accepted. I'm an honest person, I became a teacher because I didn't know what else I could do.

It's just a shame I don't like it. I was basically offered a years contract leading to permanent position by a school because the person i was covering for had left and still I turned it down. Sadly I can't make a living from odd days of supply so I do cash in hand jobs in the shadow economy on the fringes. I stay clear of benefits, don't want to be beholden.

Again, ceterus paribus is implied. Also, I doubt she choose Philosophy because she wanted to do Physiotherapy at 18 years of age, that's a very odd way of attributing motivations. She probably decided on that later.

Not to take this the wrong way, because I have understood from very early on some of the points you've raised, but people like you is why I dropped Economics after my first year at uni.

I did not understand why the people I saw were happy and motivated not just in their social life but career preparations, I was dying inside. I never aspired to any job in particular, obviously I knew I had to get a job sometime in life as I do not have a trust fund. I didn't get how someone would just know they want to work in corporate tax for PwC.

I looked around me and I did not feel like I was like the others. How could a person who's never had a birthday party and a complete **** up be able to network in the City of London and be that happy driven successful person.

Nothing's really changed much after these years, except now I have a piece of paper that says I'm Qualified to do something I don't like.

Join the club. I got a First from Nottingham (Politics….). My GCSE English was good enough to get a picture shaking hands with the local MP. I did an internship working for an MP in Westminster. I was running my JCR putting on events every weekend…not exactly a library hermit. I’ve an interview with my local C.A.B. Thursday just because I want to use my brain again! I know what you mean about the longer you are in “menial” work (for want of a better word) the harder it is to get taken seriously for grad positions.

I can understand why people “victim-blame” for want of a better term. It allows people to think it can’t happen to them. It sounds stupid now but I thought with my background I would likely have a choice of job offers.

It sounds crass but the one positive of graduating into the so-called ‘Great Recession’ is it has taught me the value of money. I realise now that a decent ‘rainy day’ fund can get you through the worst of times. That means no Sky Sports, no foreign holidays etc. To the extent one can prepare for a massive recession I would like to be better prepared for next time...

I totally agree about understanding the value of money. In my 3rd year when I realized that I wasn't getting any responses concerning graduate jobs and realized the reality would be a retail job if I was lucky or more likely the dole so I stopped spending my bursary/grant and loan and moved back home to commute so that I could put everything I had into savings. It wasn't ideal but I'm so glad that I did that or else things would have been even worse than they turned out to be.
I became so good at budgeting and learning how to fix things rather than throwing them away or paying someone else to sort them.

Best of luck at the CAB, also there are a few things on the Princes Trust website that might be relevant/useful to you.

Do you know what you might be interested in moving into? With a 1st, you're in a good position to retry for grad schemes if you're a recent grad and interested in any of them.