The Student Room Group

Hess cycles.

Could someone please explain the differences between the two Hess cycles and when to use each one.

Scroll to see replies

Reply 1
Are the two standard exam questions:
- calculate the enthalpy change of the reaction
- calculate the enthalpy change of formation
any help is appreciated.
Original post by OL350
Are the two standard exam questions:
- calculate the enthalpy change of the reaction
- calculate the enthalpy change of formation
any help is appreciated.


Hmm. I'm not terribly familar with two different versions of Hess cycles (I studied AQA).

I think another question AQA liked was to explain that they're theoretical and can differ in practice due to covalent bonding and not just ionic bonding.
Reply 3
There aren't two kinds of Hess cycles? I don't think you have understood it correctly. Lets say for example we have a reaction where A+B goes to C. In order to find the enthalpy of this reaction we will use the cycle. If we knew how to go directly from A and B to C then we would not need to apply the Hess Cycle, however we don't. However we do know that A and B break down into D and E, and the reaction of D and E also makes C. We know the enthalpy of formation for D and E, we also know the enthalpy of formation for C from D and E. Therefore, we find the enthalpy of A+B-->C by using the enthalpy of A+B--->D+E with the addition of enthalpy from D+E--->C.

This may be a confusing reply, but I hope it helps
Reply 4
Original post by ElChapo
There aren't two kinds of Hess cycles? I don't think you have understood it correctly. Lets say for example we have a reaction where A+B goes to C. In order to find the enthalpy of this reaction we will use the cycle. If we knew how to go directly from A and B to C then we would not need to apply the Hess Cycle, however we don't. However we do know that A and B break down into D and E, and the reaction of D and E also makes C. We know the enthalpy of formation for D and E, we also know the enthalpy of formation for C from D and E. Therefore, we find the enthalpy of A+B-->C by using the enthalpy of A+B--->D+E with the addition of enthalpy from D+E--->C.

This may be a confusing reply, but I hope it helps


Hmm. It's the direction of the arrows I'm struggling on and when to use what I each situation.
- Calculating the enthalpy change of combustion (both arrows point up)?
- Calculating the enthalpy change of formation (both arrows point down)?
Is that correct?
I seem to think there is another one...'calculate the enthalpy change of the reaction?'
Reply 5
Original post by OL350
Hmm. It's the direction of the arrows I'm struggling on and when to use what I each situation.
- Calculating the enthalpy change of combustion (both arrows point up)?
- Calculating the enthalpy change of formation (both arrows point down)?
Is that correct?
I seem to think there is another one...'calculate the enthalpy change of the reaction?'

Okay yes, the direction can be confusing to some from what I remember. I like to think of it similar to vectors in maths, If your enthalpy change going from the reactants (A and B) to the intermediates (D and E) is in terms of an enthalpy of combustion then the arrow will go down, however if it was an enthalpy of formation it would point up as you form A and B from D and E so the direction shows you the route. In calculations if you follow the arrow direction, you should make any enthalpy where you go against the arrow direction negative, and if you go with the direction of the arrow it is positive. Going from D and E to C will be a formation so your arrow will point downwards if you were to use another enthalpy of combustion, as C combusts to form D and E. It all depends on the data you get in a question, it will either be formation enthalpies or combustion enthalpies.

Calculating the enthalpy change of the reaction is the end result.
Its a bit hard to say without seeing example questions, I suggest you try some past papers, and see how that goes. Good luck.
Reply 6
Original post by ElChapo
Okay yes, the direction can be confusing to some from what I remember. I like to think of it similar to vectors in maths, If your enthalpy change going from the reactants (A and B) to the intermediates (D and E) is in terms of an enthalpy of combustion then the arrow will go down, however if it was an enthalpy of formation it would point up as you form A and B from D and E so the direction shows you the route. In calculations if you follow the arrow direction, you should make any enthalpy where you go against the arrow direction negative, and if you go with the direction of the arrow it is positive. Going from D and E to C will be a formation so your arrow will point downwards if you were to use another enthalpy of combustion, as C combusts to form D and E. It all depends on the data you get in a question, it will either be formation enthalpies or combustion enthalpies.

Calculating the enthalpy change of the reaction is the end result.
Its a bit hard to say without seeing example questions, I suggest you try some past papers, and see how that goes. Good luck.


To simplify this would I be correct in saying:
- if formation figures are given then both arrows point up
if combustion figures are given then both arrows point down
Reply 7
Original post by OL350
To simplify this would I be correct in saying:
- if formation figures are given then both arrows point up
if combustion figures are given then both arrows point down

Yes I believe thats correct.
Both arrows downwards for Combustion (bottom should have co2 and water), both arrows upwards for formation (bottom should have elements, yus

When calculating, make the arrow that has been flipped' delta H value negative.
Reply 9
Original post by AnnekaChan173
Both arrows downwards for Combustion (bottom should have co2 and water), both arrows upwards for formation (bottom should have elements, yus

When calculating, make the arrow that has been flipped' delta H value negative.


going by what you've said the top answer must be correct? How would I go about answering the second one though?
Reply 10
Original post by ElChapo
Yes I believe thats correct.


Any help on the above question^?
Original post by OL350
Any help on the above question^?

Work your way backwards in the cycle :wink:
Reply 12
Original post by ElChapo
Work your way backwards in the cycle :wink:


Am I right in saying the answer is (-718) - (-10) = +708?
Original post by OL350
Am I right in saying the answer is (-718) - (-10) = +708?

I don't know, check the mark scheme, I think you're riight though
(edited 9 years ago)
Reply 14
Original post by ElChapo
I don't know, check the mark scheme?


I don't have one ynfortunately...they were questions made up by my teacher :frown:
Original post by OL350
I don't have one ynfortunately...they were questions made up by my teacher :frown:

Yeah I think you're right
Reply 16
Original post by ElChapo
Yeah I think you're right


Apparently it's -274...any ideas how?
Original post by OL350
x

Apparently it's -274...any ideas how?

You also form 2 moles of PbO so you have to take the enthalpy change associated with those 2 moles into account.
Reply 18
Original post by ElChapo
You also form 2 moles of PbO so you have to take the enthalpy change associated with those 2 moles into account.


how does this look to you?
Original post by OL350
how does this look to you?
x

I am not too sure sorry, it looks like you have got the answer, so as long as you can make sense of it then its good. This is all a distant memory to me, I'm now in my second year of Chemical Engineering :tongue:

Quick Reply

Latest