The Arsenal Thread XXII

You talk about Cazorla, Monreal but you have to remember that was only because of Malaga's financial crisis. Giroud is looking like a good deal now but he isn't a world class striker to really replace RVP. Ox was a good signing but Man Utd was also in for him it wasn't really something where Wenger spotted him. Gabriel I can't comment on him as I haven't seen enough yet.

I think some of the signings made this season were not that smart. Alexis, Debuchy, Ospina are ok but Chambers and Welbeck were not good signings imo. Chambers as a RB is probably worse than Bellerin, Jenkinson and Debuchy so what's the point of him? People might say that he's one for the future but that's just speculation. Welbeck was a complete waste of money there were better strikers available but Wenger had no intention of actually buying one he just signed him because Giroud got injured. Look at Vietto he only cost 5.5m and is having a great season at Villareal also he's only 21.

Also with the issue of Coquelin. He only brought him back because of long term injuries to Arteta, Flamini, Wilshere etc. He never rated him otherwise why did he send him out on loan to a mid table championship club like Charlton?

It was more about AR trying to suggest that Wenger wasn't at fault for a failure to press well, despite admitting that your players had the ability to do so.

Also Aqib just read back through the thread, the quotes are there for every one of them.

Still waiting on a reply in the Liverpool thread x

It was more about AR trying to suggest that Wenger wasn't at fault for a failure to press well, despite admitting that your players had the ability to do so.

1)Chambers is a CB who is still a teenager. Given Shaw going for £30m etc I wouldnt say he''s a bad signing. For his age he's looked good to me and if he takes off £12m will look a steal.
2)Welbeck was not a waste. We could sell him for what we paid, he's likely to improve and he's scored crucial winning goals for us.
3)Coquelin was brought in by Wenger who clearly spotted his talent and gave him game time in previous seasons. That it took time for him to take off is not a sign that AW didnt rate him at all.
4)Giroud is not WC but you said Wenger didnt spot talent any more.
5)How is the fact Utd were in for AOC a sign that he doesnt spot talent? As if AW only signed him because others were interested too.


But yes Debuchy was a poor signing. Better than giving Sagna £130k a week or whatever but given his age I dont understand it myself.

These are poor arguments my friend I can dismantle them quite easily.

1) You say Chambers is a CB that's your opinion he has yet to impress me in either position and as I said what you're saying is just speculation. Just because Man Utd bought Shaw for 30m that doesn't make Chambers a good signing. I don't even know how you guys think.
2) Wenger only bought Welbeck because of the injury to Giroud don't tell me you didn't know that. His record is poor and there are better players for less. Again I don't even know how you rationalize what you're saying.
3) Wenger never rated Coquelin he sent him out on loan for 3 different clubs for 4 years. If Wenger rated him he would have brought him back for the new season. If you think Wenger didn't only bring him back because of an injury crisis then you should go and live on the moon!
4) Wenger tried to replace RVP with Giroud and failed. We are still without a WC striker in nearly 4 years.
5) Ox was going to sign for either Arsenal or Man Utd and he chose Arsenal. That doesn't mean Wenger spots talent the evidence is there that he has not done it enough over the last few years.

Klopp and Simmeone are ahead of Mourinho and Guardiola imo

You talk about Cazorla, Monreal but you have to remember that was only because of Malaga's financial crisis. Giroud is looking like a good deal now but he isn't a world class striker to really replace RVP. Ox was a good signing but Man Utd was also in for him it wasn't really something where Wenger spotted him. Gabriel I can't comment on him as I haven't seen enough yet.

I think some of the signings made this season were not that smart. Alexis, Debuchy, Ospina are ok but Chambers and Welbeck were not good signings imo. Chambers as a RB is probably worse than Bellerin, Jenkinson and Debuchy so what's the point of him? People might say that he's one for the future but that's just speculation. Welbeck was a complete waste of money there were better strikers available but Wenger had no intention of actually buying one he just signed him because Giroud got injured. Look at Vietto he only cost 5.5m and is having a great season at Villareal also he's only 21.

Also with the issue of Coquelin. He only brought him back because of long term injuries to Arteta, Flamini, Wilshere etc. He never rated him otherwise why did he send him out on loan to a mid table championship club like Charlton?

1)He's barely played and he's a teenager?
2)How is a player a waste when he was 100% resale value, and has scored big goals despite overall being average.
3)He brought Coquelin to the club, he rated him. How is loaning out a young player a sign that he didnt in any way? He played 10 games in each of the last 2 seasons and AW put him into the team this season.
4)Again, your arguement was about making good signings. Giroud was a very good signing.
5)Again, What on earth does the fact other clubs also rated AOC got to do with AW rating him?

Really? I still think Pep and Mourinho are the two best in the business in terms of winning trophies consistently, even if they are always at top clubs. My current top 5 would be:

1. Pep
2. Mourinho
3. Simeone
4. Ancelotti
5. Klopp

This, although arguably I'd put Klopp ahead of Ancelotti as I generally think his teams have outperformed themselves (obviously bar this season), beating teams such as Real, CL Final and back to back titles. Whilst Ancelotti is a fantastic manager (cup manager at that) he's had the strongest team in the country (on paper) for each of his last four clubs whilst he was there. They faded away in the league last year, he's made some big big money signings that Klopp hasn't and were two minutes away from not even winning La Decima last season.

12 months ago, I would have had Klopp above Ancelotti. They played each other in the Champions League and there wasn't much between them at the end of the two legs, with Klopp obviously having the inferior team quality-wise. But it's his league performances this season which has me ranking Ancelotti above him. I don't think Ancelotti would ever allow his team to perform so poorly in the league, even if he were managing a team with the quality of Borussia Dortmund this season.

On the flip side Dortmund's resurgence has been impressive, didn't they have about 9/10 games unbeaten until recently?

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Managing is about winning trophies.

List of managers with 3 CLs: Ancelotti, Paisley
List of managers without 3 CLs: Klopp, Mourinho, Guardiola, Del Bosque, Lippi, Van Gaal, Ferguson, Cruyff, Saachi, Hiddink, Michels, Capello

Pretty insulting to compare Carlo with a guy that hasn't even won a European trophy yet, when you look at the list of all time greats that don't have the CV that Carlo does. It's all well and good saying that 'but what if Klopp had his resources', as if success at one club means success at automatic success at another.

Now it's another thing to say that you'd rather Klopp as your manager for your club today, because then you factor in project and possibly longevity etc. But in some kind of manager rankings, to place the manager of the reigning European champions and one of only two men to win the CL three times (breaking the curse of la Decima, no less), below or equal to a man as comparatively unproven as Klopp? puhlease niqqa

edit: and yeah there's an argument to say 'Simeone outperformed Mourinho, they just got lucky with the late equaliser', etc, well if it's as simple as that, you can reserve judgement until Simeone does it again and goes all the way this time. Likewise for Klopp.

Fair point, Ancelotti is a managerial great. But we're talking about who the best managers are right now. So I don't think it is another thing to say that you'd rather have Klopp/Simeone than Ancelotti as your manager. I'm only rating Simeone above Ancelotti right now. I think Simeone's achievement of winning the league with that Atleti team in an era where both Real and Barcelona are consistently getting close to 100 points every season is one of the greatest managerial achievements in recent history.

Now, if the question was who is the greatest manager that is still active, Ancelotti would obviously be in the top 3, with a strong argument of him being #1.

My personal opinion is that weighting should be given to proven success, and that Carlo winning the CL recently is an indicator he's still at his peak, still as good as his CV shows.

And if you do prioritise things by recent successes (and I'd agree that Simeone's league is better than Ancelotti's CL) I'd question why you'd place Mourinho above both of them, given he's won **** all for a while now. I agree that there's a better argument for Simeone than there is for Klopp, seeing as we are talking about the present, and that I'd probably value Simeone's league win higher than Klopp's consecutive triumphs.