fa charges for arsenal and united

Don't remember Vieira leaving with a police escort, and was certainly not running away, the only animal i remember running off the pitch was the horse man.

I'd like to you provide evidence for this 'thuggery' which you've branded on Vieira. He plays an agressive game and sometimes will foul a player, even though he's going for the ball. Intentions are paramount if you want to label someone you don't know, or don't even seem to know at all. He was sent of once for an innoculous elbow, I believe against the angel Lee Bowyer, that was 5 years ago, and that's as bad as it has been. Nothing compared to just about every player in the league.

Well I remember it, watch the game again if you can- though I suppose that would only be if you taped it. While I dont condone the attacks on players by fans which would have surely ensued if he'd have gone off on his own, it did make me laugh a lot.
Evidence of thuggery was shown in the game the other day, when he attempted to kick Ruud in the balls for no other reason then to retaliate for a tackle (which to be fair, Ruud deserved a booking for) and then had to be prevented from having another go by two of his teammates- what a damn fine captain!
I am glad we agree that Viera plays an aggressive game, certainly Sunday was one of those for which he was justifiably sent off. Though i dont think I'd put it quite the way you do- you appear to think he's the innocent victim in all of this. Oh well. There are none so blind as those who will not see, even when the replay is right in front of them.

You can't label someone a thug if its a single incident, which was preceeded by Van Nistelrooy actually pushing both his legs into Vieira. I've got the highlights, from sky and from Arsenal.com, and if he'd not wanted to make contact with Vieira, he could have easily avoided it. That assault was worse than both Vieira's clean tackle on Fortune for the first yellow card, and for his air kick in 'retaliation.'

As for RVN being a thug and a cheat, I submit exhibit A:

http://www.jazz.nildram.co.uk/LjungbergPunch.wmv

the only reason he got away with it was because we didn't create a bruhaha, we'd just won the league.

You can't label someone a thug if its a single incident, which was preceeded by Van Nistelrooy actually pushing both his legs into Vieira. I've got the highlights, from sky and from Arsenal.com, and if he'd not wanted to make contact with Vieira, he could have easily avoided it. That assault was worse than both Vieira's clean tackle on Fortune for the first yellow card, and for his air kick in 'retaliation.'

As for RVN being a thug and a cheat, I submit exhibit A:

http://www.jazz.nildram.co.uk/LjungbergPunch.wmv

the only reason he got away with it was because we didn't create a bruhaha, we'd just won the league.

Cant open that link, computer playing silly buggers again. I assume its a tape of some misdemeanour by Ruud, yes?

That however doesnt absolve Viera from the charge of being a thug now does it? Neither was Ruuds tackle any worse then the way Viera had behaved during the game. Let us not forget that Viera has had more sendngs off then any other player in the Premiership ever, made even more impressive by the fact that he's only been playing in it for half its lifespan. Ruud on the other hand, hasnt. You see the distinction? You appear to be wearing the same blinkers as your manager! What would you call Viera's attempt to kick RVN in the balls if not retaliation?

As for just winning the league, well make the most of it cos it doesnt look like theres going to be a repeat for a bit. Oh, but you dont mind do you? Cos you've got the moral high ground (yeah right!)

that looks more like Ljungberg shouted something at Van Nistelrooy. the way he is looking at him and not at the ball suggests he's more interested in it kicking off. Punch? VN just runs into him and Frederic jumps up, in the air holds his stomach and screams.

didnt make contact? air tackles? if i fire a gun at you and you move out of the way, i hardly think the police will give me a slap on the wrists and a lift home.

I'm sorry, at what point does Ljungberg even open his mouth until after he's punched? Its in the last 5 mins of a game which Arsenal need to draw to win the league, their winning, RVN has been tackled yet again and he punches Freddie.

There are so many reasons why the gun arguement is totally wrong. Firstly if you've got a gun then you'd be arrested. Secondly a gun's a deadly weapon (the only person who a football boot could be considered a deadly weapon is if its been kicked across the room by a drunk Scotsman). If however, you lashed out a punch at someone 3 feet away and missed, then I think the police wouldn't even give you a slap on the wrists.

If you actually look at the replay, then Vieira didn't have any intention of acutally touching Van Nistelrooy, it was if he was saying 'get away from me,' it was wrong of him to do so, but he'd no actual intenetion of touching RVN. If he had, he would have gotten up and done so.

Nor does your charge of being a Thug hold water for a sinlge isolted incident. As I've said, nearly all his red cards have been for 2 yellows, things like hand balls, and tackles which were in no many mallicous, and the pundits on many shows have thought were harsh. This doesn't make him a thug. Maybe you're being blinkered because you assume all tall black men are?

As for the fact that the angel hasn't got a red card. 1) He plays upfront, (very upfront, like never ever in his own half) so he won't have to make any tackles 2) He's only been here what, 2 and a bit years. 3) He's like a school kid, will only do stuff if he thinks he can get away with it.

As for winning the league, I don't mind at the moment. The most important thing is to a) get the stadium built by 2006 (funding is apparently throught now) and until that time, the club must keep it current team and strengthen where we need to. That way by the time we get to 2006, we still have a team which can compete with the big money men and the financial gap wouild have been closed. If we win the league in the mean time, and I still think we will, then its just a bonus.

i think this sums up the pathetic nature of defending equally desperate behaviour that was a disgrace to the country and set a very bad example to young players.

Tall black men ,like Keown for example- who I also called a thug. Dont be a f**kwit. Is that really the best you can do? As I said,I think the moral high ground is a bit beyond your reach here! And what makes you think I'm not black myself?
I am not surprised that you reject the thug charges as you appear to think the sun shines out of Viera's arse, but sadly not. He behaved like a thug on Sunday, in particular when he attempted to attack RVN. Dont get me wrong, he isnt the only arsenal player who's a thug- we can talk about Keown if you like. I would just love to hear you on that one!
Congrats for noticing that Ruud plays upfront, though that of course does not preclude one from getting sent off. It does mean one is more likely to be tackled, yes, which is why he is awarded so many penalties- he is usually in the box and lots of the time inferior defenders see no other way to deal with him then by hacking.
League- my arse. The arsenal fans absolutely hated watching United get the league last season and would love nothing more then to get it this season, but that looks unlikely I think. United, as I have said, have got so much money because of the success, though I dont think Arsenal can really go down that avenue- not good enough any more.

Yes, it also raises the point of whether players have a duty to set an example. The behaviour on Sunday of the arsenal players sent out just the wrong message to young players watching, as well as being the catalyst for fights outside the stadium.

Yes, it also raises the point of whether players have a duty to set an example. The behaviour on Sunday of the arsenal players sent out just the wrong message to young players watching, as well as being the catalyst for fights outside the stadium.

i think there are 2 fundamental points ,

1) that this is not a punchup. you cant start defending their behaviour, because 'they didnt make contact' or 'he had it coming after last season'

2) most people will accept that occasionally things get overheated and there is a scuffle. this clearly went beyond that. the actions of the arsenal players were aggressive, delighting in the misfortune of another player through mockery,and most importantly, they were pre-meditated. in terms of the message you want to send out regarding fairplay, sportsmanship and healthy competition, this was way short of acceptable.

The catalyst for behaviour outside the stadium was more than one incident. RvN had missed a last minute gift, and the scum Mancs decided to have a go at the celebrating Arsenal supporters. The bars had been open all match, for some reason. The weren't in riot gear until well after the final whistle. The Arsenal fans, who are supposed to be protected, and like any other away support should have to stay in the stadium for 20 mins, were let out straight away. Now 65,000 Mancs, pissed off at their teams inability to win, or even play well, all pissed, all wondering how clogged up the motorways back south are, were the reason of violence outside the stadium. However, the police aren't going to arrest them are they? However much they actually assault people and throw missiles.

Firstly, noone at Arsenal has defended what went on after the match.

hehe, this is exactly what i was pointing out. 'its ok because noone was hurt' attitude. the image of Keown jumping in VN face because he missed a penalty is far more dangerous to the reputation of the game than abit of pushing...

but not everyone watches Div3 and they are not players who are representing our country...

'if f$cking ruud f#cking misses this, im fu$kcing gonna give him a f$cking shitload of vituperation'..

Point one- it was not only the United fans who kicked off. The Arsenal ones did it too.
Point two, those that did had just been set an atrocious example by the bunch of thugs in the Arsenal shirts on the pitch.
Point three- the Arsenal fans did not have to go when they did, they could have waited. Or perhaps they just fancied going outside for a fight? Or were peeved because they realised what deep s**t their players were going to get into?