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Why do some white people have a hard time understanding white privilege?

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Original post by jedanselemyia
2) Maybe because there was a white supremacist regime in that country not so long ago and you still the effects? 80% of South Africa's population is black and still lives in ghettos and townships. 8% of the population is white and most of them live in the richest parts of the country, in gated communities, go to the best schools etc
I remember seeing a documentary about the poor white minority in South Africa. One couple declared they wished it was Apartheid again because they had comfortable governement jobs and a house.

Your OP was about white privilege in nations like the UK and America, the mess in African nations is irrelevant to the points you made in your original post.

Of course in poorer countries there's a big problem with racism and such, but the things you say about the situation in developed countries is ridiculous.


Original post by TheWoke
If we want to talk about demographics let us go back in history.

Aborigines were wiped out in Australia by white people because they were a minority right? DEMOGRPAHICS

Native Americans were forced into reservations by white people because they were a minority in their own land right? DEMOGRAPHICS

Black people in Africa was colonised and robbed by white people because they were a minority right? DEMOGRAPHICS.


lol seriously come on guys. Try and think from a perspective that differs from your own.

Again, irrelevant to the point that's being made in the OP.
I have had enough LOL.
TSR seems to be full of bigoted closet racists, I am shocked. Apparently the explanation for why ethnic minorities in their own land (where they were the majority) were oppressed is because they were 'primitive'.

Cool.

You guys should try saying these views on a public platform or in front of these 'primitive' people without the safety of online forum anonymity. Say it with your chest. Let me know what happens. Toodles.
Original post by Zargabaath
Shed light on a non-issue yeah. If by conditioned you mean I'm not a self-entitled paranoid douche-bag with a victim complex, then yeah I suppose I am. (And I'm grateful for that too)


+1.
Original post by jedanselemyia
.


Very few of these things and real privileges and to be honest, half of this **** seems like an excuse to justify racism towards white people.


>20. I can easily buy posters, postcards, picture books, greeting cards, dolls, toys, and children’s magazine featuring people of my race.

If a White people were to complain that there were too many Black people shown in TV shows, in books, etc you would call him a racist and you are doing the same thing.


>18. I can be pretty sure that if I ask to talk to “the person in charge,” I will be facing a person of my race.

This is perhaps the most disturbing, if a White person had a problem with working for members of another race, again you would be thinking racist, heck I would be calling him a racist.





What you really need is a strong dose of grow the **** up :smile:
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by Retired_Messiah
Your OP was about white privilege in nations like the UK and America, the mess in African nations is irrelevant to the points you made in your original post.



Again, irrelevant to the point that's being made in the OP.


No because people have argued that 'it is because of demographics that the OP's points happen and that because US and UK is white majority it is a natural occurrence' therefore I have given examples where ethnic minorities were the majority yet were still oppressed.

Love how people make excuses for racism and discrimination. This is great. Such progress.

The ignorance is overwhelming. Enjoy your day all.
Original post by jedanselemyia
A lot of "ethnic" MPs have been elected. Cool, does that mean racism is over?

1) Up to a certain time, I was unaware of what was happening in Zimbabwe. The fact that the oppressor was black (Mugabe) and not white challenged my view.

2) Maybe because there was a white supremacist regime in that country not so long ago and you still the effects? 80% of South Africa's population is black and still lives in ghettos and townships. 8% of the population is white and most of them live in the richest parts of the country, in gated communities, go to the best schools etc
I remember seeing a documentary about the poor white minority in South Africa. One couple declared they wished it was Apartheid again because they had comfortable governement jobs and a house.


I didn't believe we were having a discussion about racism, the topic is your opinion that a 'white privilege' exists. My point was, if you were correct (you're not), it's not doing a great job given that ethnic minorities are more and more holding positions of power in society, not only that, but members of the establishment who are mostly white are wholeheartedly for the most part supporting it. (Black only scholarships, ethnic minorities parachuted into safe seats in parliament, black only internships at law firms and banking institutions, black only internships in the civil service, black quotas in the BBC + public services). You clearly know something I don't about this supposed tyrannical white privilege.

Thanks for answering my questions:

1) The fact that you were unaware about it, shows one of the deep rooted problems where white plight is commonly ignored as non-newsworthy (take white men who are shot be black police officers in the USA as an example, or white children who were gang-raped by Asian gangs across the North of England on an epidemic proportion).In fact I find it rather alarming your surprise that any kind of racism can exist which doesn't fit the commonly accepted PC requirements of what it's meant to look like. Try to not be forced into ignorant narrow-minded perceptions of the world based on what youre 'meant' to believe, or what the media tells you to believe.

2) Is this some kind of strange attempt to justify the theft of private property and widespread violence against a group of people who share a skin colour, because of moral crimes committed in the past? Should I kill/steal from my British friends because I am descended from Irish people whose families were starved to death in a potato famine due to British colonial policy? It would make sense under your logic. If you are justifying the situation in South Africa, I find that absolutely disgusting.
I wish my biggest concern was that a plaster didn't match my skin tone.

And once again Americans assume USA = everywhere else. We don't have the IRS or "traffic cops", sweetheart.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by jedanselemyia
Ethics? But I don't really expect you to have any about this issue, so you can rest in your nice white bubble. :smile:


Original post by TheWoke
There we have it. Like I told the OP initially, it is too much to expect most of the people who are not negatively affected by something to care.

Wonderful :smile:


While i don't condone proper racism, many of those points are niggles.

Original post by TheWoke
Sorry I even misread, the people were 'primitive' so that's an excuse?


It was a dog eat dog world back then. Spain had an empire which meant we had to get one to compete with them militarily and then France.
Original post by Retired_Messiah
Your OP was about white privilege in nations like the UK and America, the mess in African nations is irrelevant to the points you made in your original post.Of course in poorer countries there's a big problem with racism and such, but the things you say about the situation in developed countries is ridiculous.


I was answering his questions about the situations in Zimbabwe and South Africa, would you mind?
Original post by Teaddict
Because it massively generalises a very large and heterogeneous group of people based on their skin colour. In all other circumstances, this is known as racism by the progressive left, yet when directed at those who are white it is not. There is a huge disparity between countries of a majority white population in terms of socio-economics, democracy, freedom, 'privilege'. You are generalising across all these groups without any real facts or evidence that what you are saying applies to them all.

It is like me concluding that all blacks commit crimes based solely on the actions of some and then applying that 'fact' as widely as possible. Interestingly, if I sought to make that conclusion, I would be accused of racism.

You do not combat racism and discrimination through racism and discrimination. You combat it through acceptance, openness, and tolerance. So many fourth-wave feminists and 'social justice warriors' (I dislike the term but it makes it clear who I am referring to) are among the most authoritarian people I have ever had the displeasure of coming into contact with. What made it even more ironic is that they are mostly white and from very well off, established backgrounds, yet have the nerve to tell me I, as someone from a very poor working class background, is privileged. Quite honestly, you can go **** yourself.


I know this is off topic...where's your profile picture from? It looks so familiar?
Original post by TheWoke
You are actually hilarious.

So do you believe racism doesn't exist because laws have been passed?

Genuine question.

Racism exists.

This idea of white privilege being preached about in the OP is what I'm arguing against.

Laws were passed by the majority group that is against racism to promote equality and prevent any race from having any sort of privilege. The facts are, ethnic minorities have equal opportunities to a white person like me. They can receive racist abuse sometimes, but people that make racist comments and discriminate are frowned upon in western society. Because it's feckin wrong.
Original post by TheWoke
If we want to talk about demographics let us go back in history.

Aborigines were wiped out in Australia by white people because they were a minority right? DEMOGRPAHICS

Native Americans were forced into reservations by white people because they were a minority in their own land right? DEMOGRAPHICS

Black people in Africa was colonised and robbed by white people because they were a minority right? DEMONGRAPHICS.


lol seriously come on guys. Try and think from a perspective that differs from your own.


This is all irrelevant to the current discussion. But anyway, it's because we've learnt from history that we know those events were wrong. It's why we have a much more equal society. It's why we have equality and anti-discrimination legislation. But if you want to keep seeing problems where they don't exist then that's up to you. Why don't you just get on with life like everyone else is doing?
Original post by TheWoke
No because people have argued that 'it is because of demographics that the OP's points happen and that because US and UK is white majority it is a natural occurrence' therefore I have given examples where ethnic minorities were the majority yet were still oppressed.

Love how people make excuses for racism and discrimination. This is great. Such progress.

The ignorance is overwhelming. Enjoy your day all.

Those minorities were murdered. It's not the same.

Minorities not getting as widely represented in the media nowadays is because of demographics. There aren't a huge amount of black people compared to white people, so naturally more white people are gonna be in the media and such, because there's feckin more of them.

Majorities getting killed and pushed off their land a few hundred years ago was because western white people at the time decided they wanted more land, had a huge technological advantage, and threw ethics completely out of the window. Not quite the same thing, is it?
Reply 113
Avatar for Exon
Exon
15
The whole white privilege thing is no different to the feminist idea of rape culture. Racism and rape do happen but not nearly to the same scale that professional victims like Anita Sarkeesian would have you believe. Some of the crazier SJWs like to perpetuate the idea that these traits are innate to whites/men, which ironically enough is a stereotype in itself. The law is pretty clear-cut when it comes to institutionalised racism and sexism, there's no argument to be made except anonymity in job applications, which would make both presumption and affirmative action impossible. This whole idea about telling certain groups of people to "check their privilege" is about as effective as the pope telling people to abstain rather than use condoms to prevent HIV transmission.

As for the petty complaints like not being able to find staple foods or cut your hair a certain way, you have four options:
1. Import (staple products).
2. Find someone to do it for you (ie. in specialised districts like China Town)
3. Start a business that will do it for you (ie. the initiative approach)
4. Go to a country that will do it for you.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by Oschene23
I didn't believe we were having a discussion about racism, the topic is your opinion that a 'white privilege' exists. My point was, if you were correct (you're not), it's not doing a great job given that ethnic minorities are more and more holding positions of power in society, not only that, but members of the establishment who are mostly white are wholeheartedly for the most part supporting it. (Black only scholarships, ethnic minorities parachuted into safe seats in parliament, black only internships at law firms and banking institutions, black only internships in the civil service, black quotas in the BBC + public services). You clearly know something I don't about this supposed tyrannical white privilege.

Thanks for answering my questions:

1) The fact that you were unaware about it, shows one of the deep rooted problems where white plight is commonly ignored as non-newsworthy (take white men who are shot be black police officers in the USA as an example, or white children who were gang-raped by Asian gangs across the North of England on an epidemic proportion).In fact I find it rather alarming your surprise that any kind of racism can exist which doesn't fit the commonly accepted PC requirements of what it's meant to look like. Try to not be forced into ignorant narrow-minded perceptions of the world based on what youre 'meant' to believe, or what the media tells you to believe.

2) Is this some kind of strange attempt to justify the theft of private property and widespread violence against a group of people who share a skin colour, because of moral crimes committed in the past? Should I kill/steal from my British friends because I am descended from Irish people whose families were starved to death in a potato famine due to British colonial policy? It would make sense under your logic. If you are justifying the situation in South Africa, I find that absolutely disgusting.


You're welcome:
1) I'm not, thanks.

2) Many who have thrived under the Apartheid regime are still alive. The white&rich and black&poor is still the image of South African society, despite the end of Apartheid which angers many (also lots of black folks have made it to the top!)
And no, I'd rather forgive and not forget like Nelson Mandela did.
It bothers me too. White people can indeed experience discrimination, but as a white person I have never been the victim of institutionalized racism and I never will be. It's important to remember that. We DO benefit from being white and anyone who thinks we don't is frankly deluded.
Original post by Duncan2012
I'm not excusing it, that sounds like a horrible experience. Has it happened more than once? The point in the OP did say "I can go shopping alone most of the time, pretty well assured that I will not be followed or harassed". The 2011 UK census had over 87% of the population identifying themselves as white, less than 7% as Asian or Asian British, and less than 6% as Black, Black British or British mixed. So again I'll say that demographics account for things you're claiming as white privilege.


Thank god, no. I was shopping with my nan once when I was little. I'm mixed race and my nan is white (she's the mother of my dad, who's white). So yeah I was scared but after a few minutes of this woman following me around but I managed to snap "I'm mixed race!" and I ran up to my nan.
Yes, because that would be the experience of almost all white people.
Original post by jedanselemyia
You're welcome:
1) I'm not, thanks.

2) Many who have thrived under the Apartheid regime are still alive. The white&rich and black&poor is still the image of South African society, despite the end of Apartheid which angers many (also lots of black folks have made it to the top!)
And no, I'd rather forgive and not forget like Nelson Mandela did.


I can see that every time I provide a response, your range of discussion diminishes somewhat and becomes further removed from the topic at hand; I'll take that as an ironic compliment to my arguments.

2) Yes, some are still alive, what's your point?
The image of South African society is not what matters, it is what is happening in reality that is of importance. I suppose it's relatively easy to make it to the top when you have 'Black Economic Empowerment' legislation which quotas black people regardless of qualifications into any large white-owned corporation in the country. Imagine the uproar, if we had 'White Working Class Economic Empowerment' in this country where rich blacks were forced to employ whites based on the colour of their skin, not merit.

You have failed to address my main point however, which is that black racism is rife in South Africa, and is very much institutionalised in the country against whites, and the fact that you feel that this is somehow acceptable based on actions taking place 30 years ago, does not sit well with me. Also, I notice how you accept yet brush over white genocide in Zimbabwe, like it's some minor matter which has no importance when placed next to the much more pressing issue of artificially created views about a privilege that somehow exists with no evidence.

If I am racist to someone, and then they are racist towards me when they get the chance, neither is in the right. You fail to grasp this.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by jedanselemyia
Or, it could be that white people would rather buy a CD based on the artist's skin colour rather than on the quality of his craft. Not that I think Eminem is crap, quite the contrary in fact.
Your statement proves you have poor knowledge of rap music :smile:


Could be, just like it could be that the tories won the election thanks to selective vote counting. More likely that people buy whatever they enjoy. Without counting I'd expect the artists I listen to regularly are 90% white, that's not racism, that's because I generally enjoy melodeath, a predominantly Scandinavian artform.

As for why people have a hard time accepting that white privilege exists? Probably because we hardly see it (well at least any benefits of it) in this country: divides between the privileged and the not privileged in the UK is more along the lines of class and wealth than race.
Original post by TheWoke
Cool reversal of the point but are you inadvertently agreeing that white privilege exists in western societies then?


I suppose to an extent, yes, but that's because the majority are white. Also with regards to certain aspects I just think it comes to down to prejudice.

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